X-Stasis Fields

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 12:31 am: Edit

I don't see any need to change the SFG just because its on an X-ship. Its already a tremendously rude weapon.

Proposal:
During the Andro War once it was clear that all races would need to unite to fight back the Andros the technology for the Plasma Carronade was refined to work with the PL-L and the designs were distributed to all allied plasma races. Think of it as a Y190 refit designed to counter the increase in X-drones.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 01:40 am: Edit

I tend to think giving X1G-racks the ability to fire as E-racks is a great anti-drone tool.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 09:20 am: Edit

I'd like to see the carronade applied to the Pl-L. That or see the Gorns gets some X-ships that use Pl-Fs.

As to which races should gain access to the carronade, I'll leave others to debate. But I do like that fact that the carronade is (mostly) a Gorn thing. Give it to the Romulans and the ISC, and the Gorns go back to being "that other plasma race."

As for the SFG, I'm with Tos. No need to X the thing up; it is going to be more powerful because it will be much easier for an X-ship (with all that power) to use it. The ship itself improves the SFG.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 12:35 pm: Edit

I figure that the SFG already is a X-weapon that the Klingons got early. Maybe should be considered a Third Generation X-weapon.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Carronade applied to Plasma-L, definatly Plasma-L. Wapner in five minutes.


Seriously I agree with Jeremy.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 12:57 pm: Edit

Also, power issues aside, an X-ship has a better chance of surviving after using the SFG since the ship must be at a full stop to use it and the X-ship can accelerate back up to high speed faster than can a standard ship after that use.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 02:18 pm: Edit

Tos,

The problem wth distributing the carronade to all races is that it's supposed to be the "Gorn special thing."

No problem with carronading PL-L's except that no Gorn unit above SC4 will have carronade capability. Maybe the CLX. maybe not, too.

IIRC, the plasma complement for a Gorn CX is 2xM, 2xS. Do we allow the S to carronade as well?

We might want to simplify the rather arcane way the SFG uses power. 5 points per beam, doubles every turn. That's it.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 02:29 pm: Edit

I note that one of the advantages of the carronade is that it can fire every turn. But an X-torp S or M can fast load as an L in one turn so that Gorn CX could, at close range, generate four L-torp plasma bolts each turn. I'm not suggesting this as an argument against S-torp carronades on X-ships, since there remain the issues of the Gorns having something for their plasma that the Roms/ISC don't and the cloak-induced range modifications that carronades ignore. I am mentioning this as one data point that needs to be taken into account when deciding whether to allow Gorn X-tech S-torps to carronade. But I'm not sure on where I would ultimately come down on the final decision.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 02:41 pm: Edit

Alan,

The carronade can be fired on the first-turn of arming as it is. You don't need a completed and armed plasma. Fastloading would add some damage, though. The Gorn COMF has 4 F-torps and could fire them every turn in carronade mode.

I'm not sugggesting the M-torps carronade but that the S-torps do. The techno babble is that the M as a cut-down R-torp has too wide a launch tube to focus for the carronade

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 04:45 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

No problem with carronading PL-L's except that no Gorn unit above SC4 will have carronade capability.

---

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 06:36 pm: Edit

John:

Yes I know. That's what I meant when I said it can fire every turn, but maybe I could have expressed it better. My point was that X-ships can already bolt plasmas every turn by downloading their heavy torps as fastloaded L-torps. So they already possess one of the carronade advantages. But that takes away the "Gorn-only" weapon at the X-tech level unless the L (and perhaps X-tech S-torp) can also carronade.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 08:08 pm: Edit

The carronade is a Gorn-only weapon. I'd like to see it remain that way.

The L-torp is an improved F-torp. I see no reason not to give L-torps the carronade ability.

An S-torp cannot be carronaded, even if it's downloaded. The same restriction should apply to M-torps. Whether they're small R-torps or big S-torps, the same logic applies.

X ships can fire an F-torp every turn. I agree with Alan, there's no need to create a new carronade-type weapon for X-ships.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 08:51 pm: Edit

Jeff

...then the Gorn CX has no carronadable weapons.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 09:19 pm: Edit

But that's OK...

Unless, could there be a drogue thing that could carronade somehow?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:22 pm: Edit

That seems a kind of cheesy solution...

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:55 pm: Edit

Just because the carronade has been invented doesn't mean it has to go on every Gorn ship.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:58 pm: Edit

Well, perhaps. Better to toss it out there than keep it to myself.

Still, it can just be a game dynamic that only the smaller X-ships had carronade for hunting cloak.

Consider the fun!

"Go find the cloaked ship Spike...go on...gooood boy"

Arruuuhh, sniff... sniff sniff...shhhhpoing!!!

"It that it boy? You found him?" Aaaahhh...THUD!

"Goooood booyeeee"

Pant pant, wag wag

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Jeff,

Agreed, but to leave it off the principle gorn combat unit?

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 10:54 am: Edit

SVC, SPP: Draft 0.1 of X1R 3/20/04

The list of proposed ships can be found in:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/23/6808.html?1079785758#POST157768

Internal Name: Module X1R
Possible Distribution Names: X1R, X1R1, XR1, RX1, RX2, X2
Book Type: SSD book with new rules.
Status: Initial Proposal Draft, 3/20/04

Period: Covers the ships built during the ISC and Andro War, Y186-Y202. This period in the SFU is underdeveloped.
Ship Types: X1 variants, new X1 combat ships, general X units, partial X refits (XP).
Classes: Freighters, Auxiliaries, Q-Ships, Tugs, PFT, Carriers, Scouts, DB, DCS, Stasis, Selts, CL Reprints.
SSD Booklet: A list of possible ships is attached and will need to be trimmed down to 79 SSDs before publication.

Rules: Re-printing of X1 revision rules and changed BPVs from CL23. Reprint the MSC to include all X-ships.

Rules: Crew Quality for X1 and XP ships.
Pro: There is a concern that (XD6.34: -1 to hit) combined with (XD6.393: 8EW) could make X1 ships too good against Andros, an X1 ship’s most important opponent. Proposed solution is to make one or both rules a function of outstanding crew (G21.211), (G21.212) rather than technology. The assumption being that for the first several years all X1 ships had only outstanding crews, but eventually average crews had to fill in as the number of X1 ships increased. These average crews lost some of the benefits of an X-ship, but not as severe as (G21.2). Adjust BPV as needed.
Con: Would require making a change to the revised X1 rules. The current revision states the –1 is gained due to advanced fire control.

Rules: Mega-X-Pack for fighters.
Allows drone-carrying fighters the ability to launch and guide 2 type-VII X-drones replacing the 2 type-IF drones normally gained with a mega-pack.
Pro: Limits X-drone launch capability to a reasonable number. VII drones are expensive and limited availability.
Con: Complicates logistical network. Improved drones may prove unbalancing against Andros.

Rules: Drone Bombardment cruise drone for X-ships. Exchange half warhead space for fuel and III-XX targeting computers. Can be used to track moving targets from long range like a cruise drone.

Rules: Plasma Carronade for the PL-L for all plasma races.
Pro: All races are fighting the Andros and this can help. The Gorns don’t have many PL-L in the X-era so why horde it?

Scenarios: Scenarios will need to be generated and included. Op Unity, or an Op Unity update just for this module, would be well placed. An ISC Pacification Campaign could be done in this module. The Ando assault on the ISC and LDR should be included.

Secondary Module Focus: Partial X-refits (XP)
Rules: Applying partial-X technology to General War hulls without making SSD changes.
Target: Y195: 50% non-X ships, 30% XP upgraded ships, 20% X1 ships.
Pro: A large numbers of ships can receive upgrades without making changes to existing SSDs. Allows ships that did not have an upgrade path to full X-tech to compete. Warp engines and phasers are not upgraded.
Con: Requires extensive but abbreviated MSC: Ship, BPV, YIS, Notes, Optional: Explosion Strength; all else would be the same as the base class.

XP Weapons:
Upgraded: Allows GW ships to use VII-drones in limited or restricted quantities plus the ability to control X-drones. PL-F are upgraded to PL-L. Remove cool down turn from Fusion armed ships. Gives Lyrans either X-ESGs or no burnout UIM. Gives Tholians X-Snares. Special Sensors act as X-Special Sensors. UIM available to Kzinti and Tholians.
Pro: Many players don’t like the tactics of fastloads. Not enough power to arm fastloads. SSD tables don’t have the longer range of X-Photons and X-Disruptors.
Con: VII Drones will need to have limited and restricted availability years. Need to understand how converting a PL-F to a PL-L affects the Plasma Carronade, a function we would like to retain.

XP Batteries: Improve batteries.
Option 1: 3-point X-Bats with a restriction that no more than 1-power can be extracted or charged.
Option 2: 2-point XP-Bats with no restrictions.
Cons: 3-point unrestricted batteries makes many ships superior to their X1 counterparts.

XP EW: Allow XP ships to generate up to 8 EW but they do not get the (XD6.34) –1 modifier to hit.
Pro: Allows balance options against X1 ships, provides advantage against Andros.
Con: Might be too good against Andros. Not enough power to use regularly against X-ships.

XP Shuttles and PFs: Compatibility with X-MRS. Allows Hydrans the ability to support St-X fighters, may need to limit availability. Might need a St-TX. Upgrade PFs to remove the WBP extra damage rule. We can playtest a full XP update on PFs, but it would be controversial. Many have requested a Lyran PFX or PFXP.

XP Upgrades: XP ships would be required to have all previous refits installed before upgrading to XP. XP ships could be further upgrade to X1 if available, this could be done due to budgetary restrictions or yard space.

Thank you for your consideration of X1R. The Players.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 12:09 pm: Edit

Tos:

Two comments about your list of pros and cons.

1. It doesn't describe what a mega-x pack would do for the fighters of races that don't use drones.

2. I think you mis-state the concern some of us had about 3 point batteries on XP ships. The nature of the concern was the effect on ships with very large battery arrays such as BCHs or DNs. A C10-XP would have 30 points of reserve power and several other DNHs would have 27 points. These are Mauler-like reserve power levels but on ships with much more efficient weapon suites.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 12:17 pm: Edit

Also, there is a con to giving everybody the Pl-L carronade: It's a primarily Gorn unique weapon and giving it to everybody takes the Gorn back to being "that other plasma race". The Gorns just get no love.

Seperate issue: If we give the carronade to everybody, do the ISC get to fire carronades out of their aft Pl-Ls?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 12:49 pm: Edit

They could only gatling-carronade against SC5 and smaller.

But no, I'd prefer to NOT democraratize the carronade.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Mega-X pack is under development and will be submitted again soon. I was told to deal with it after GAMA (and I had another major project to finnish...which I did.)

SVC may toss out my proposal an do one of his own, I dunno but I'm trying to cover all the bases and have fighters have a little resistance to just being wiped out of the sky with X-aegis. But then it can't ovewhelm Andros either.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Concur on X-carronade - Gorn only! (And by Gorn only I mean that even X-Orions shouldn't get it, nor Feds if they get a DDLX. But I fear that that wouldn't fly. Still not sure if it should be L-torp only or whether the Gorns should be able to carronade S-torps on their cruisers.)

Loren, I would point out that drone armed fighters already have great resistance to X-aegis due to their ability to launch from outside its range. The X-aegis does help the X-ships deal with the resulting drone waves better. But for fighters themselves versus X-aegis, the real issue is for fighters whose shorter ranged weaponry forces them into effective x-aegis range.