Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through March 28, 2004	25		03/28 06:22pm

Paravian Economy & Defenses:
From outside, inwards

Star #2, P1: 3 GWS 3 YGBD2 (Ph-2), no economy (6 patrol)

Star #1:
P7: 3 GWS 3 YGBD2, no economy (5 patrol)
P6: 3 Complat (5 EPV each, gas mining), AER (4 patrol, 15 EPV)
P5: 4 GMS, one each large moon + defenses (5 EPV each) (20 EPV)
Pa: 3 GMS, 6 YGBD2 (in separate regions) (5 EPV each, 0 if destroyed) (15 EPV, 3 patrol)
P4: 2 Complat (5 EPV each, gas mining), AER, 3 GMS + major defenses on Class-R moon (5 EPV each) (25 EPV)
P3: none (2 patrol)
P2: (HW) 6 GMS (10 EPV each), many other defenses (1 patrol, 60 EPV)
P1: none (irrelevant)

Total system economy = 135 EPV

GMS regions produce half EPV if destroyed but area still in Paravian control (5 rounds to 2, exception, asteroid GMS).

Units cost Economic value to build (in particular, see GMS).

Ships cost 25 EPV per turn to build (regardless of ship type). Note that the actual cost will depend on the number of turns it takes. This results in economic costs of YDD = 50, YCL = 75, YCA = 100.
Non-zero value NWO (decided last turn of construction) added to that turn's construction costs.

There will be an upgrade cost for going S->W->Y as well as for YHD (amount TBD). As well as costs for major repairs.

# patrol refers to the number of patrol regions in each blockade sector.

By David Kass (Dkass) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 06:31 pm: Edit

INITIAL FLEETS:

First battle:
Paravian WCL, 2xYDD, 3xWDD, WFF
Gorn 8xWBI, WDI

Other forces
Paravian: WCA, YCL, 6 YDD, 8 WDD (?), 2 WFF Number of YDD/WDD will need to be tweaked for balance (and depending on what the Paravians need to have some defenses, but give the Gorn options of where to attack). Note that force is DD heavy since they were used for system defense and the cruisers were sent on raids. No ships initially in the yards (?)

The Paravians will also have a number of dummy counters to create uncertainty in their operations (once revealed, a dummy counter is removed from the game).

Gorn: 2xWBI, 16xWCI, 21xWDI (note the Gorn will need 36 ships to fully patrol the initial blockade, plus an offensve force and a blockade enforcement force).

Per turn, Gorn receive 2xWCI, WDI with a WBI replacing a WCI every fourth turn (effective Gorn annual production is WBI, 7 WCI, 4 WDI--assume other WDI sent elsewhere & extra WBI retained for Romulan defense). I'll probably allow the Gorn to substitute a WBI for a WCI+WDI on any turn (intially the Gorn will probably want the hull count, but later they'll want the heavier ships for attacking the HW).

There will be a drop off in Gorn construction correspoding to the Rom-Gorn war and the Yclass ships will appear appropriately, but both won't happen for 20+ turns (I need to double check the timelines).

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 08:25 pm: Edit

David, some factors for you to consider:

One thing I didn't mention to you before is that in my Paravian Racial Profile for MPB, the supply lines of the Gorn Blockade Squadron lead back to the Gorn minor planet Golgotha, which is in hex 4903. I suppose that they could also supply from Gistardistang in 4702, but that's 3 hexes instead of two.

I forget how F&E handles this, but ... GPD gives speeds for NTW ships as 272 parsecs/month, and early Tac warp ships do 353 parsecs/month.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 09:36 pm: Edit

Gary. CL12 gives an F&E movement of 4 hexes for EY ships. Assuming that is the rate for speed 24 vessels, speed 16 units would have an F&E movement of perhaps 3 hexes.

David. The Gorn YBS doesn't really have a chance against a Paravian attack. The QWTs are great base busters in numbers and any defending Gorn ships could do little to prevent it (i.e. it will be a long drawn out battle, but the Paravians will win with little or no losses).

I am concerned about the homeworld. With 4 YNST, I am not sure if 8 WBIs will take even one out before being destroyed.

By Paul Stovell (Pauls) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 10:46 am: Edit

Andy,

If they are based on the planet then only one need be in arc to the attacking force at any one time.

The one in the atmosphere would presumably be attacked when it could be covered by only one ground based YNST as well.

IMHO The scenario really requires that a full strength Gorn fleet is enough to take down a base but take enough damage/lost ships that there is then a breathing space before it can assemble another force to do it again.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 01:44 pm: Edit

Paul. With the 3 ground based YNST evenly distributed on the planet, you'll be facing at least two PLUS probably the one in orbit.

By David Kass (Dkass) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Andy I intend for the battle against the Gorn YBS to be fairly easy for the Paravians. They need to win two full fleet battles first (ie have one fleet effectively defeat two Gorn fleets) before even getting to the YBS. And even at the YBS, I'd expect whatever is left of the Gorn fleet to sortie and try to keep the battle away from the base. This is primarily to give the Paravians a chance at a true victory (a bit like in the OpUnity campaign).

I was making the assumption that the Gorns had built a YBS in a nearby system to supply the blockade. The YBS is effectively the end of the supply line for the blockade. I realize F&E doesn't require this, but I wanted it for two reasons. 1) It makes for a good Paravian Victory. 2) It gives the Gorn some local repair capacities. If the Gorn are going to be out here for a long time (permanently was the original plan), they'd want something closer than 1000 to 1500 parsecs away.

Gary, if possible could you modify/include the YBS in your description of the siege?

By David Kass (Dkass) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 02:26 pm: Edit

As far as the YNST, I'll change the number as I work through the details if its needed. I'm not wedded to having 4 of them, I can easily just make the surface shipyards not part of YNST, but some sort of general bombardment destruction. I want the HW battle to be a major series of battles (basically the Gorn should expect to expend 3 to 4 fleets subdueing the planet). The time this will take will depend on how many fleets they can actually assemble at that time (ie if the Gorn has been having a bad time up until then, it may take 8+ campaign turns to do it, but if they have the ships, it might only be one or two turns).

On the other hand, the Gorn shouldn't need a full WBI fleet just to have a chance to inflict some (permanent) damage. It may be that the Gorn actually find killing the ground bases first the way to go since they need to close to range 5 anyways (one good volley and they'll be gone).

The Gorn can get to the orbiting YNST while only reaching range 8 to the surface ones (it'll be in a 3 hex orbit).

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 03:12 pm: Edit

David. I must admit that your campaign just seems far bloodier than the low-level conflict described in Y1. I just can't envision the Gorn High Command expending 3-4 fleets to do anything short of defending the homeworlds.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 05:56 pm: Edit

My description of the Blockade was deliberately sketchy -- I didn't say much more than it was there, and it worked for nine years. I ddeliberately wrote that article in such a way that I wouldn't get in the way of this project.

The low-level conflict was from Y30-Y66. Starting in Y68, it got hot.

Oh, and if I was a Gorn looking for a place to build a small base in the Paravia system, I'd build it at the planet orbiting the companion star.

By David Kass (Dkass) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 06:16 pm: Edit

I was more thinking near (as in 1 or 2 LY away). The Paravians already have the small planet at the second star set up as a sensor outpost...

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 01:14 am: Edit

One way of balancing the campaign better would be to keep most of the modernization to happen to ships that are out of system. Much of the system defense craft and bases are still saddled with quantum cannon and lasers. Gorns would have a brief edge but bad opening play would give Paravians chance to upgrade defenses which coupled with returning quality ships makes the Gorn task harder. Does seem to be a difficult campaign to balance past the opening.

By Paul Stovell (Pauls) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 02:56 am: Edit

Andy,

You are right always 2 bases from three.
David you should perhaps consider only 2 ground based YNST. I'd guess each one would cost the best part of a fleet probably for both sides

By David Kass (Dkass) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Richard, I had intended to keep them mostly W-class ships, but do you think, given the dates, that keeping them sublight could be justified? I will have a few returning sublight raiders.

I don't have my module in front of me, but I thought that the conversion to tactical warp (ie S->W) always involved upgrading the QC to QWT (so we can't have QC armed tactical warp ships). I know there aren't any SSD of such.

Only one or two surface based NST are definitely doable. I've been concentrating on the blockade running aspect over the last couple of days (in particular working up the scenario).

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 05:58 pm: Edit

David: The module talks about returning SCAs being jumped up to YCA level. Either the SCA was on 15 year duration raids or the Paravians have a limit on how many W upgrades can be conducted and sent SCAs back out. If one problem is having Paravian bases being to powerful, having bases that were not upgraded is one way to effectively defang them while retaining enough facilities to remain plausible.

I expected that the Paravians would build a massively strong local defense once relations with the Gorns broke down but ignored those defenses as many years passed but the homeworld remained unthreatened. Others have different visions of Paravian development.