This idea came up from an F+E discussion.

Allow a variant of Mega-fighter packs that you an swap mega-fighter pack types and place whatever you wish on a fighter.

By this, I mean, place an "Assault Mega-Pack" on a "Superiority Fighter" and add heavy weapons to the Superiority Fighter.

So example:
Take a Z-Y, and place a Z-D Mega-pack on it (to gain the disruptor shot instead of 2 extra drones).

Or take a F111 and place a A-20 Megapack on it to gain 2 Photon shots on it instead of 2 extra drones.

Of course their would be an extra surcharge for this, so instead of the standard 50% for a Mega-pack, a possible 75% cost.

This would entail, having a 'list' of what each Mega-Pack type would be.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 11:15 am: Edit

We discussed something similar in the X1R thread for the Mega-X pack idea. i.e. production reduces to a single or few best fighter types and then the maga-x pack alters the type.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 11:25 am: Edit

Just to play "Devil's Advocate", the assault megapack adds a charge, not the weapon. So, if added to an assault fighter, it gives the fighter's pre-existing weapon an additional charge. If added to a superiority fighter, the charge will have no weapon to use it and, therefore, be useless.

Not trying to shoot your idea down, just trying to warn you of the likely response.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 11:43 am: Edit

In this forum I'd agree. Developement could go the otherway in X tech but I don't think it will. I was really only saying the idea had been discussed else where so that the discussion that took place could be read rather than reposting the debate here.

It would be interesting to see an F-14DMa with a single photon shot though. In SSJ one never knows.

edit=Then again maybe that should go in Scary Ships!

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 01:34 pm: Edit

Andy Palmer,

Sorry about mistaking you for Andrew Harding.

Ah yes,...SFBRFA...now I remember more clearly...

You know, I don't think what you posted was our "final" incarnation of whatever we were doing at the time. It doesn't say anything about the ASW defense (Gosh, I hope my memory isn't THAT bad...). Additonally, I've still got some notes made based off of the document overview you posted that builds on it. Don't know where those notes got us, though.

Should I send it to you, or are we making "sound and fury" to no end?

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 05:22 pm: Edit

Rich. Go ahead and send - I'll likely have some time over the next few weeks to review.

By Jay K Gustafson (Jay) on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 08:40 pm: Edit

Would Steller jurnal 3 be in captain's log 29 like 28.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 08:51 pm: Edit

See above SSJ3 is at least one year away. I'm dead sure that it won't be in CL29 or 30.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 10:39 pm: Edit

SSJ3 is at least a year away, maybe two. CapLogs 29 and 30 will be "regular" issues.

By Alexander Pitman (Dassadec) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 11:11 am: Edit

Have the previous SSJ's been only about Alpha Quadrant stuff? Could the next on contain Omega Sector stuff? Or, a Xorkellian (sp?) teaser?

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 12:15 pm: Edit

The Steves have already said that the "headliners" for SSJ3 will be the General War era version of the Carnivon. (SSJ1 was the Peladine; SSJ2 will be the GW Paravians.)

I doubt they would do a Xorkellian teaser, as the Xorks are/will be "real". SSJ is for "non-real" stuff. (I.e. stuff that is still imaginary even in an imaginary universe.)

To the best of my knowledge, SSJ is not intended to be Alpha only. I imagine that if interesting Omega stuff is proposed, it has a good chance of be used.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 12:26 pm: Edit

SSJ1 had an Omega ship (Measron BB).
SSJ2 doesn't have any Omega ships to my knowledge.⁴²

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Why would any Omega stuff be conjectural? Things can be shoe-horned in easily still.

Unless you want just wacky stuff, like Worbs with Hyper-Cannons (in the turrets..)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 01:57 pm: Edit

Alexander: I have no problem using Omega stuff if appropriate material appears. Petrick and I don't really know Omega well enough to create suitably whacky stuff.

A Xorkaelian teaser might be fun in Captain's Log someday (maybe next year) but since they are "real" that doesn't really fit into SSJ.

I am blessed (no sarcasm) that so many people know the universe so well that three of them could answer a question in the hour since it was posted.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 03:45 pm: Edit

Xork teaser in X1R instead?

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 06:10 pm: Edit

F&E Proposal for SSJ#3: (Zork Teaser...see last paragraph).

Using the Mobile Warp Gates published in SFB Campaign Designers Handbook (stock #5715).

(SSD page #96, Ref#R1.C4) (Guessing Strategic speed of the WG to be 2 F&E hexes operational movement?)

Allow all races to build and deploy Warp gates.(F&E purchase price of 10 EP per warp gate)... perhaps deployed in "pairs" one each per starbase and the second 'mobile warp gate' able to be moved operationally by the various races.

Suggested limits of warp gates:

1) total number of ships able to be used per F&E game turn equals number of Warp gates assigned to a starbase...(so if Federation has 13 starbases, it could "warp" 13 ships and non ship units every 6 months.) (optionally, some multiple of the number of starbases could be chosen.)

2). Range between warp gates could be unlimited, or...some linear amount of F&E hexes...or (just as an example), suppose the warp gate requires a stabase to function, and the capacity to "warp gate" ships or nonship units is an increase to a races total Strategic Moves capacity.

3). The Warp gates have zero military effect, but allows unarmed freighters to materially increase their strategic speed ability and reduces the chances of pirate interception... The increased speed of commerce has an dramatic impact on an races total income. The total number of warp gates (expressed as factorial) equals the 'bonus' to income.

for example:
Warp gate
1! =1 EP
2! =3 EP
3! =6 EP
4! =10 EP
5! =15 EP
6! =21 EP
7! =28 EP
8! =36 EP
9! =45 EP
10!=55 EP
11!=66 EP
12!=78 EP
13!=91 EP

so to"have" a pair of warpgates, the player would have to purchase 2 separate gates at 10 EP each...and would "realize" a EP bonus of 1 EP point per turn...while if the Federation (just to sight it as an example) has 13 warp gates (deployed at 13 separate starbases) would yeild 91 EP bonus per turn (while it Cost the player 130 EP to buy the warp gates in the first place...)

NOTE: for game balance purposes, the purchase price of the warp gates may need to be significantly increased or changed to a linear function rather than as presented...the object of the proposal was to have little benefit for operating a limited network of warpgates while having many warp gates would be a decisive benefit.

2nd note: having a single warp gate is useless...assume the warp gate at the races home world is a 'non mobile' warpgate and mobile warp gates must be at a starbase to junction...

4). Warp gate technology allows non warp capable units(or very slow warp capable ships) to move at strategic speeds...including FRD's, Monitors, Tug pods (without the tug!), PF's, bombers and fighters.

NOTE#3: this last option may be too powerful by itself as in theory, atleast, a warpgate equipped starbase could transfer attrition units from any other starbase also equipped with a warp gate or even fighters and PF's from the homeworld PDU's.

I suspect that some will cry foul and claim that such an idea is a game breaker...but if you want a "Zork teaser" this technology would allow you to defeat a Zork invasion without having to redesign the existing game...and using warp gates could be integrated by all races in F&E.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 07:13 pm: Edit

Lets see.....I would prefer not to see the Xorks till they are printed.

As for using this in F&E...

You can already move an unlimited number of hexes per turn, though aux units are limited to a range of 12, which is more than sufficient to get most of them where they are going.

The Lyrans start with 5 starbases and usually have 6 by turn 4 or so. With 6 starbases generating 21 EP a turn, the Lyran will be able to send their 20 EP to the Klingons and still build everything, convert everything, etc...

The Kzin will have 3 starbases by turn 4, netting them 6 EP per turn, and that is only if they shell out 30 EP for the gates in the first place.

No sale here.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 07:42 pm: Edit

I'd rather not paint ourselves into a corner by publishing a Xork ship any earlier than necessary.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Chris and Tos:

Who said anything about starting the Warp gates at turn #1?

Specifically, I did not include a reference to any specific year.

Assuming the Zork invasion (when it occurs) is going to be post Andromedan war and ISC War, It may be that the year start for Warp gate tech is many years past the end of the General War.

Also, with regards to Chris' "move an unlimited number of hexes per turn" comment, I suspect that I did not make myself clear.

My appologies.

If you were to refer back to the actual wording of rule #204.21, you would find "The moving units must begin and end on a friendly SMN (Strategic Movement Node). (SMN include Starbases, BATS, Mobile bases, tugs acting as supply points off map areas, planets...(edit)

Now, where I think I was not clear enough was in providing several options where Warp gates could be used, and not just a single mode...The one that I think best fits here, is where it reads "...Allow all races to build and deploy Warp gates.(F&E purchase price of 10 EP per warp gate)... perhaps deployed in "pairs" one each per starbase and the second 'mobile warp gate' able to be moved operationally by the various races."

By having the "Mobile Warp Gate" able to move operationally, ships moved using strategic movement (warp gates) are not limited to SMC's...they can use Strategic movement to where ever the Warp Gate is located.

To use the Zork invasion as an example, we don't know yet where the Zorks will enter the map at...could be in Federation territory ..or over by the Lyrans...or even by the ISC.

The Warp gates would allow the Feds to deploy the fleet using strategic movement far beyond Federation territory without requiring additional construction of SMN's first.

Oh, and one other thing...as Chris points out (correctly) there is an advantage to races able to build larger networks of starbases...such a characteristic would encourage various races to cooperate by building larger networks by linking networks together to take advantage of the economy of scale.

The "nice" thing about using warp gates, it allows a race to "control" the gate activities...One would imagine the Tholians and the WYN's would both want to be able to control the number, size and frequency of ships using their respective gates...and know that if they don't like what comes to them...they have the ability to "return to sender"!

IMO the warp gates are a nifty bit of SFB hardware that do not currently have a role in SFB or F&E.

SSJ seems like a good place to have it.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 11:46 pm: Edit

I would think that when the time comes to bring the battle to the Xorks it will be with a Galactics implementation of the RTN. Andro tech is Andro tech but I doubt that the RTN is something so alien that the concept cannot be copied.(I.e research and develop a way to map clear space for super high warp travel then create a sort of warp overdrive to use it). Not everything Andro is inconcevable. Their warp and impulse are understandable (unless those things aren't really what they appear to be).

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 11:49 pm: Edit

BTW: Steve had mentioned that Xork raiders have visited the Alpha sector since way back so a teaser that would include such a raider would not be out of line. The cool thing is that the XOrk Raider might not have all the nifty stuff the big boys have so there can be left lots of surprises for the Xork C module.

I look forward to such a teaser. Though it should appear in a regular CL.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 11:58 pm: Edit

Warp gates? I think not.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 12:00 am: Edit

Loren:

I also look forward to additional information re:Xorks...

the problem (or maybe the advantage!) is we have so many F&E modules that will need to be completed first, that there may be lots of time for one or more Xork teasers in various products...

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 12:13 am: Edit

Well, I would only really want to see the Xork Raiders. Those have been around since at least the general war IIRC. Beyond that I can wait. A CL would be perfect since that would make them semi-official and could be changed or whatever.

By Patrick McDowell (Pmac) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 11:26 am: Edit

Why would anyone have a problem with a "Conjectural" Unit?
No one says you have to use it.
I see this as making sense for using in a non historical campaign.
If it is "Conjectural", who cares?