Seems to me that:

1) Bolt damage would be based on impulses moved + range to ship (the sabot would help move the plasma closer but wouldn't affect the DF part of the bolt).

2) Bolt roll to hit would be based on range from torp to ship at the moment of bolt. Maube put a -1 (worse) on it.

3) Really if you can bolt from 10,000km and hit, you can bolt from 50,000 or 100,000.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 03:46 pm: Edit

Self-bolting plasma is hard to get balanced - I played around with a far weaker version of it last year. (I set both hit chance and warhead according to the total of the impulses moved and the range from the point of bolting, then halved the warhead again. Weak, but good for hitting down shields and nice for fighters that couldn't otherwise bolt at all).

Your take is simply better than ordinary bolts, effectively letting a plasma fleet 23 hexes from a base or other predictable target to bolt as well as if they were at range 10 (by launching Sabot self-bolters set to bolt at 10 hexes timed so that they move 13 hexes in their first 10 impulses).

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Well, yes and no. The real benefit is that you get better accuracy; the damage would remain the same. If I bolt at range 15, I do 11 points on a 1-2. But, if I use this weapon and set it to bolt at range 5, and it moves 15 hexes, I still do 11 points, but on a 1-4. Not sure that's terribly unreasonable for X2, especially if there is a nice hefty power cost associated with it.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 04:45 pm: Edit

If a CX at up to 23 hexes from a base launches SSMM set to self bolt at range 10 it'll get an average of 35 damage, assuming nil EW. That's substantially better than bolting from range 23 for an average of 4 damage (and requiring a hex spine position) and arguably superior to a seeking launch that can be phasered.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 05:07 pm: Edit

I too like the concept. Not sure I understand the physics but that's OK.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 07:55 pm: Edit

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I could see a plasma bolting from R1; Perhaps a 1-3 chance. I know this greatly reduces your proposal but there are a couple things to consider.

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That's substantially better than bolting from range 23 for an average of 4 damage (and requiring a hex spine position) and arguably superior to a seeking launch that can be phasered.

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By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 08:44 pm: Edit

Tos, the physics is best explained that a shaped-charge detonator is placed in the plasma that detonates the thing and directs the energy in more or less a single direction.

Technobabble can always be invented to justify a given weapon.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 09:23 pm: Edit

The Trobin Implosion torpedo damages its target when it reaches a range of one (or zero). And does full seeking weapon damage.

As to the technobabble for this idea... But this method can not be used with the Long Range Bolt idea I lifted from SSJ1.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 12:16 am: Edit

If Omega or LMC can invent it then its physically possible in this universe. Are there any other cool non-Alpha technologies that could be adapted to Alpha tech? I don't want to wholesale lift a weapon, just use similar physics.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 12:27 pm: Edit

There are a couple of things. But you'll have to wait until SPP clears them for Shield galaxy playtesting before I can comment on them.

I'll need to take another look at Omega, Since the last time I wasn't looking for any adaptable tech. Mostly I was looking to AVOID duplicating tech. The only thing I can remember offhand is the Vari Particle splitter torpedo. Basically a plasma that divides itself into limited SG modes.

As to LMC I've only seen the stuff in CL.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 03:24 pm: Edit

New possible proposal for X2 developed by the Romulans.

Plasma Repeater:

General concept.

Loaded like a shotgun a reduced number of plasma-F's are fired once per 4 impulses. To delay longer one point of reserve power must be applied per held torpedo per impulse delay after each four impulses. Each torpedo can be fired at any type of normally eligible target (ships etc).

Number of F-Torps (note not L-Torps.):
• R=3
• M=2
• S=2
• G=N/A
• L=N/A

Example: Arm an R torp as Shotgun. Upon firing (impulse A) the first Pl-F the delay count begins. The enemy has launched a WW so the Romulan player wishes to wait out the explosion period and delay the repeater a couple impulses longer. On impulse A+5 he holds by draining two batteries to hold the two remaining Pl-Fs. On impulse A+6 he hold again for two more reserve power. On impulse A+7 he launches the second Pl-F and the delay count begins again. On impulse A+11 he can launch the last Pl-F or pay holding cost on the next impulse. If at any time the holding cost is not paid the remaining torpedoes must be ejected and cannot be targeted.

Romulans developed this as a counter to the combination of Carronade cloak hunting and large numbers of shuttles available to most Gorn ships (that can be WW). The Plasma repeater specifically is designed to quickly eliminate an enemy's supply of WW.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Tractor your target and you get one hades of a mizia attack.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 01:21 pm: Edit

Thats a long time to tractor. I guess that I left out that you have to wait the full delay and launch on that impulse or pay hold cost. So, you couldn't just fire one after the other each impulse.

So you're looking at holding the ship a long time. If you could do that then yes, it would be effective as mizia. Note however, in most cases the total damage isn't much more that a normal torpedo. The R gains 10 in the total and so does the S. The M actually looses ten points. Note: I intended this, I wanted to steer players to using only the S-Torps for this. But I just couldn't see the R torp only gaining 2 F-Torps. So the rule would be that the process generates two F-Torps (notably not L torps) except for the R which is so big it produces three.

Of course, the energy cost is pretty high too. I felt it was fairly internally balanced towards circomventing large supplies of WW.

I figure that the Romulans facing the Carronade would see that they couldn't hide under cloak indefinately any more. But they would be facing trouble because when they did they would run out of WW a lot faster than the Gorns and would inevitably start losing engagements more often. As in fact, they should to stay in line with history. But in X2 it would go against established history for them to make a come back technologically.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 05:25 pm: Edit

Makes sense. The limits on the torps keep it in balance, because you're not poppong off 2x standard plasma damage at a single target.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 07:14 pm: Edit

Man, what a cool idea! Hadn't been looking in this thread lately, but wow, that's really nifty. Could you bolt the F's like that? If so, woof! You could have some serious fun with that.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 07:50 pm: Edit

I could go either way.

The way a bolt works, you'd really be bolting everything instead of each of the individual torps. That's what happens with a Shotgun.

But, man, I'd be tempted to let you bolt the F's piecemeal.

Say X2 plasma a "bolting chamber" built built into the launcher, which would allow this.

But what if you bolted the entire R with 2 torps remaining? My vote: it bolts as a S-torp. any launcher with just one F left bolts as a F.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 09:54 pm: Edit

I had proposed long ago the Plasma Gatling, remember. It basically allowed you to bolt the F-Torps of a shotgun. It was along the line of thinking that in this age of super fast ships and such, the plasma races would be look to DF capabilities more and more.

I don't see why not to allow bolting. The cost is pretty high. I would say however that either you bolt them all or none. Not launch one and bolt the other. That would be too crazy, IMO.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Oh yes, absolutely. Imagine, though; a ship armed with a pair of type M torpedos could bolt 8 type F's. Man, talk about hell on PF's.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 02:55 pm: Edit

Mike, well they can do that already with normal shot gun as PF are suitable targets for shotgunned F's.

This proposal, which is an addition to still having the normal shotgun option, allows a larger launcher to launch multiple F torps targeting SC4 and up. The M-Torp actually is not as functional as the other types here (ends up less efficient). It has to do with the advanced systems causing a problem with targeting in THIS manner. Also, the advanced launcher, though it does produce a larger torp and can shotgun better, is similar in size as the S-Launcher and so can only fire Two F in repeater mode.

Mostly technobabble but the point was that all large launcher can only fire two F-Torps in Repeater Mode. It was intentional that the S-Torps be more efficient and that the R-Torp is just so big that you have to let it fire three.

It was also intentional that Repeater Mode not be as efficent a use of energy for damaging ships in combat. The underlying intent was for the Romulans to have a way to frustrate the Gorns use of their copious amounts of shuttles as WW, since with Carronade, they cannot just remain under cloak as long as they want.

Compare the two systems though and the Carronade come out way on top as the more effective weapon.

I would add, however, it does have an extended use in fleet level battle.

By Robert Eddy (Tar_Zhay) on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 02:43 am: Edit

In X2 tech one would think the shotgun/quick load torp type would increse to a type L and the F torp would just become a foot note in history.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Depends on what else you're doing with plasmas don'tcha think?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 09:55 am: Edit

I hadn't really thought about getting rid of the F torp alltogether, and now that I have, I don't think I would. That's just me, though...others may take a different view. I've really not done much with it, to be honest; been busy with other things. 'Bout the only thing I am sure I'd like to see would be a "new" R torp; something that can put the fear in you, the way an R-torp did back in the day. Figure most CA's had around a thirty point #1 shield, and the R torp could do 60% more than that at most. So, if X ships have around a 45 point shield, a 60 to 75 point super torpedo would be kind of cool. Imagine the Rom X2 WE, with a 75 point super-torp. Be afraid...be very afraid!

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 10:50 am: Edit

This is not to be sarcastics or anything like that at all. Long ago I remember having a laugh session about the Romulans building a Super Torp. (and Mikes post reminded me of it).

This torps would be mounted on a new War Eagle type ship but larger. (This was before Shock rules...ya that long ago.) When it launched the ST-R the ship was slowed be 1 or 2 hexes of movements (I forget how much but something like that). If it launched enveloping style the ship had to e-decel first and would be moved back a hex on launch (ya, before movement).
The war head was like 100 points and took double an R-torp to arm.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 11:50 am: Edit

I'm not sure I like the idea of an X2 War Eagle per se, but let me be clear in my meaning. An X2 ship that is an analog to a WE or KE, i.e. built around a super-heavy torpedo (and lightly armed relative to its size other than that, due to the size/power of the primary weapon) is fine. I would just prefer that it be called something else and that the SSD look different.

Admittedly this is an esthetic complaint, and much less important than getting X2 rules and ship designs (functionality rather than esthetics) correct. Still, the WE/KE/KEX is based on a design goimg back to NTW days. By the time we get to X2, a similar ship concept based on a super-heavy torpedo ought to look different. Aren't X2 ships generally new designs, rather than refits of older hulls?

For the same reason I would just as soon see the Klingon X2 cruiser named something like the D8 rather than the XD7. D8 may have bad associations with the original and unsuccessful X2 supplement, but as a name, I believe it makes more sense than something like XD7, since unlike the DX it is not a refit applied to a D7 hull. XCA is more acceptable since CA is a generic term for a class rather than the name of a specific design.

As I said, however, this is an esthetic issue rather, and as such is less important than a lot of other things.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 12:04 pm: Edit

Regarding the X2 WE: Actually, I created a design that had the Remus facility (finally back up and running after the desaster of the General War) producing an X2 design simi-independantly, and so has some differing technologies than the other Romulan X2 designs.

It's primary armorment is two M-Torps. This is way mor eflexable than a single R-Torp or even a super torp. A later design could have a super torp when the Romulan X2 fleet is in full swing.