Ahh...SSJ3...Duh, read the topic head. Sorry, Mike, my bad.

But, if we're going to explore "alternative fighters" for the Feds, wouldn't it be fun to seek to define more than just the unproduced F12 or little-produced F7?

I'd actually like to see/work on a "fighter development" article similar to what we've seen for the Klingons and Hydrans. For suggestions, here's a hypothectical list of what we don't have:

F1 - (called "Mirage" after another ubiquitous 20th Century fighter, never got off the drawing boards...)

F2 - ???

F3 - ("Skyray" perhaps a prototype F4?)

F5 - ("Freedom Fighter", the Fed's first cheap export fighter - Spd 9, Dmg 7, 1 P3-FA, 2xVI, DFR 3, YIS 167, BPV 5)

F6 - ???

F9 - ("Panther" a failed prototype, but the first design leading to the development of the F14...)

F10 - ("???" - failed prototype, first design leading to the F15)

F11 - ("Tiger", second failed prototype leading to the F14, first to test the PG system on a fighter)

F12 - design not selected, ultimately sold to Gorns...

F13 - ("???", failed prototype leading to the F16?)

YF17 - forgot name, but fighter beaten by F18 in head-to-head contract competition. All data same as F18 except speed 12)

F19 - (no official name, but nicknamed "Wobbly Goblin," a dramatically failed prototype to test stealth technology on a fighter)

F21 - (second failed stealth prototype)

F22 and/or F23 - ??? a new generation of fighter ??? By Y186, a handful replaced the F18C's still in use [occasionally] on the GSX-class of X-ships. Also used at the few BATSX in place of F18C's.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 03:53 pm: Edit

Richard Sherman,

Concerning the F1...IIRC the F1 FJ Fury was a naval version of the F86 Sabre, and since Fed fighters follow US fighter progression, this may be an alternative means to honor an aircraft that served with distinction.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Friday, April 30, 2004 - 03:54 pm: Edit

As Federation parallels U.S. fighters, the YF-17 "Cobra" was a competitor to the F-16 (not the F-18). The primary difference was the F-16 was a single engine fighter and YF-17 used two smaller engines. The F-16 had the advantage of using the same engine as the F-15. (Along the same lines of the Federation CA and DD.) The YF-17 later evolved into the F-18.

By Marcin Radzikowski (Warchild) on Friday, April 30, 2004 - 03:57 pm: Edit

Some technical data on the YF-17 here

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 10:27 pm: Edit

Following up on Richard Sherman's idea for a Fed Fighter history article:

F1 (name not yet assigned!) was the initial test bed of the new fighter technology. As such it leaned heavily on components common to the construction of the Admin Shuttle.

Speed 6, retained 360 degree phaser 3, crew 2, (pilot and gunner) DFR 1, has 2 hard points for 2 type VI dogfight drones(self guided?) not able to use standard drones or RALADs.

Comments?

By Adam James Villatorio (Merlinfmct87) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 01:44 am: Edit

Time to pull one out of the left quadrent...

MAGIC! How about systems on conjectural starships that can cast various spells, some that damage a ship, an area(think a huge mine) or heal your own ship/allies...

The possibilities are limitless. It would be interesting to see the different loadouts on this...like selecting your drones but a lot more involving.

This sounds cool to me, hope you like it

Adam

By Les LeBlanc (Lessss) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 05:31 am: Edit

Is there an infintiy setting on the booth?

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 11:56 am: Edit

Where's my Ring?

By Adam James Villatorio (Merlinfmct87) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 12:23 pm: Edit

Let me get this straight:

You don't mind Tribble drones, but you do mind this?

Nice to know your consistent ;P

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 01:23 pm: Edit

Adam J V.

The thing is that wile Tribble Drones are goofy and SSJ material they are Science Fiction in nature.

Your proposal is an entirely different genre; that of Fanticy. Many people do not care to mix the two.

By Jeff Laikind (J_Laikind) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 01:56 pm: Edit

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- Arthur C. Clarke

(Any mistake in the exact quote is my fault.)

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 02:07 pm: Edit

Huhh?!??

I don't remember submitting that one!

Loren Knight wrote: "wile tribble Drones".

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 02:07 pm: Edit

That may be but that quote is really relavent as genre is clearly distinguishable.

Now if he were to describe how each of the new abilities function in a science based manner then...well, that would be science fiction.

By Adam James Villatorio (Merlinfmct87) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 05:30 pm: Edit

Re: Loren Knight:

Thanks for the input(no sarcasm!) Let me see if I can put in Sci-Fi terms...

Magic is, at it's core, the manipulation of energy. It has always been more of a science than a mystery, the only difference between "Science" and "Magic" is that they don't understand each other.

Consider this: It takes years of study to be a mage/wizards. This is an accepted fact. It also takes years of study to be a Starfleet Engineer, as well as a Scottish accent.

Therefore, the only required action to discover "Magic" is to discover the energy being manipulated, and how to manipulate it.

Given that, "Magic" in a Science Fiction world is not at all unrealistic--no more unrealistic than Warp Drive or Transporters.

So it can be explained very simply by Scientific Terms Granted, they will not sound exactly like the scientific terms that are present now, because they are describing a new branch of science. You don't expect a Biologist and an Engineer to use the same exact terms, but there will be some overlap.

Here’s an example of a spell put into scientific terms:

Magic Missile:

This spell is, very simply, a perfect example of Einstein's E-MC², as all it does is takes the native subspace(I’ll use a better term once I find it) energy and change it to plasma, then guides it to the target, causing damage. The guidance system is simply the ship’s sensors--as long as the ship can track the target ship, the missile can hit(treat it like a drone in other words)

However, as it stands now, Magic is nowhere NEAR SFB. So there has to be something to bring it there. Either a new race(Plenty of room in Omega) or a Federation Breakthrough, in which case it belongs in X2 or X3(this is solely for justification purposes in SSJ, I'm not saying it should go in either of those modules.)

Another point for this idea is that people have been asking for a "new dimension" to SFB, something that would add to the existing game and that people would have to adapt around and plan against, and this seems to fit the bill to a 'T'. Yet another aspect is it would be a great contrast to the Holy Lyran Empire.

If this is more in line with what you are after, I'll start a thread in the proposals forum and we can stop clogging up the SSJ3 thread.

Re: Jeff Laikind: 1st, the quote is exact, good memory , 2nd, thanks for vote of confidence!

Re: Jeff Wile WOW! The inventor of the TRIBBLE DRONE! I'm HONORED!

J/K!! Nice to meet you

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 05:33 pm: Edit

With a nickname of "Merlin"....

Who else would you think would try to get Magic Missiles into SFB???

Hmmmm??????

LOL

By Adam James Villatorio (Merlinfmct87) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 05:42 pm: Edit

••••!

Someone caught me.

By Mark Norman (Mnorman) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Adam: Magic, is, in fact, already present in the Omega sector, in the form of Loryill Fireballs, and there shows no real superiority to technology (except no one else can copy them)

By Adam James Villatorio (Merlinfmct87) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 06:24 pm: Edit

Time to buy Omega!

BTW, what do you think of my submission?

By Les LeBlanc (Lessss) on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 11:54 pm: Edit

There ain't no such things as space dragons.

By Mark Norman (Mnorman) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 03:05 am: Edit

Les: You have to be careful you know, if you keep disbelieving in them, your Branthodon fleet might suddenly disappear.

By Kevin Howard (Jarawara) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 09:40 am: Edit

We already have magic in SFB. The Lyran Expanding Sphere Generator. An object enters the sphere boundary, and "abra-cadabra", the energy field discharges and relocates from an area extending out in a 30,000 km radius, to discharge exact the correct amount to kill the drone. That's magic.

Oh, wait... there are more examples. A phaser is a direct fire weapon, traveling at standard speeds, but can catch a warp powered target moving at 30 times the speed of light. Same with all the direct fire weapons - apparently that disruptor beam has a mini-warp engine on the back of it.

Of course, this does not include the more standard D&D spells, like say... timestop. Oh, wait.... Stasis Field Generators.

And Magic Missile? That's a Phaser-III. Hydrans, with their Gatling Phasers are simply higher level wizards with multiple missiles.

"Captain Hyrotook, what are you doing? Get that Cruiser back into the fight immediately!!!"

"Sorry, Admirial Hythemek, I am out of spells for the day, and I need to memorize more gatlings."

By Piotr Orbis Proszynski (Orbis) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 10:30 am: Edit

I object! Magic in SFB should clearly be handled by the GURPS:Magic system, not by D&D/d20!

Although... "Ensign Ssssassskia could feel her heart pounding like a stampede of Armoured Protogornosaurs. Just beyond the next bend in the Dominator's corridor lay the greatest secret in the history of the Andromedan invasion -- the physical form of an Andromedan! Quietly, tail lashing nervously, she made the last few neccessary steps, and peered into the well-lit alcove, where, hovering majestically in the alien-scented air...

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! It's a BEHOLDER!!!!!

And then she rolled a 1 for Initiative, and, quicker than -- well, actually, exactly as quickly as -- a Chain Lightning discharge, she was dead."

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 11:46 am: Edit

Now for the opposing political viewpoint.

Beholders do not rule the Spelljammer. We Scro are the rightful owners.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 12:11 pm: Edit

SFB DF weapons are warp augmented so ya, they aren't instant but they are a heck of a lot faster than tactical warp. Fast enough to seem instant. That's why phasers can catch FTL ships.

ESG, obviously there is a trigger field that sends the energy to the target when breached. Not so magic.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 02:08 pm: Edit

My understanding is that the ESG energy field decays at a determinable rate from a medium field into a shield-like field at a given radius. It's probably similar to how Deflector Shields work, except their generators radiate to a distance barely beyond the hull and the energy level is sufficiently high enough to withstand greater force for longer time.