It seems rather silly to me that the tractor beam costs as much power to hold a Type VI drone as it does to hold a Battleship.

I would recommend the adoption of a LIGHT MODE TRACTOR BEAM that can be used to hold objects that don't themselves have a movement cost.

LIGHT MODE TRACTOR BEAM.
The Light Mode Tractor Beam is a low power cost setting for all tractor beams developed by the Federation in Y140 and adopted by all other tractor using races the year after.
..... It allows tractors to develop a point of tractor force when tractoring Size Class 6 and 7 objects ( that don't themselves have a movement cost ) for 0.5 points of power per hex of the tractor beam's reach.
..... This greatly helped smaller vessels such as the Klingon E4 which now had the ability to stop an SS at range one without being forced to preplan or consume the entirity of its reserve energy supplies.

VERY LIGHT MODE TRACTOR BEAM
In Y144 the Klingons developed a more effiecent way of organising their tractor defenses by capitalising on the extreme lightweight nature of drones ( in comaprison to shuttles ) and other size class 7 objects. The year after all races adopted the technology.
..... Under Very Light Mode Tractor Beam a size class 7 object ( that has no movement cost of it's own ) can be tractored for 0.5 of power up to a distance of 3 hexes.


This system doesn't hold the complexity of giving every unit in the game it's own tractoring capabilitites but does give smaller vessels the capasity to perform both an impromptu tractor and an impromptu something else (usually Ph-3 shot but possibly movement).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 08:46 pm: Edit

Don't get carried away.
1/4 for drones
1/2 for fighters
3/4 for bombers.
Ok, let's do it.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 08:56 pm: Edit

Well I think it's a bit much in some situations but okay in others...it gives the Klingon E4 the ability to tractor an SS at R1 and fire a Ph-3 shot both off the 1 BTTY but unfortunately it also gives the D7K the ability to tractor three drones at R3 for 1.5 points of power and then ADD the guts out of them so I'm expecting it to be rejected but I think it'ld make the list in a CL Proposals board, under "maybe we could have done this before doomsday" but since it changes the BPV of every ship in the game ( by a different amount ) it's too late to do it now.

By David Kass (Dkass) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 08:24 pm: Edit

I have to disagree with the entire premise of this. Nothing is going to tractor a B10 with one point of power unless the B10 wants to be tractored. For me, small things are already easier to tractor: they only cost one point of power to tractor.

I'll have to think about play balance issues (especially drone defense). My first reaction is that any change is not good, drones and drone defenses are too much of a core of the game and already well balanced. Carrier operations are another question (some will save significant power when towing or landing their fighters). But it may not be too bad...

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 08:57 pm: Edit

Well, one this I see as trouble is a situation like the FF duel. Perhaps a Fed FF against a Rom SEA. The Feds drones will be useless while the Roms torps will be unaffected and the Roms gets the power savings, which is always a good thing for Romulans.


HOWEVER, this would not be unbalancing IF it were a refit or part of a refit that altered the BPV. A very late year refit and perhaps could be part of X1R or X2 (though, ironically, these ships don't really need the power savings).

What if it were part of the XP refit but was not used on full-X ships or X2 ships; only XP. Call it a finicky device that didn't mesh well with full X designs. Then it would be something special for XP alone and would fit with many of the reasons for XP's exsistance (since XP wont get real power increases a device that save power while protecting the ship is perfect for that).

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 08:57 pm: Edit

David, but it is possible to tractor a B10 with only 1 point of power. It's not a matter of tactics, it's a matter of "Is the tractor able to attach to the ship?", which the answer is "yes".
There is some practical sensibility behind it, but looking at it solely from a "Now a ship can do even more" aspect, I think is the wrong reason to come up with it. It could be argued either way that the amount of energy in the tractors is enough to hold the target, regardless of move cost and frankly, I don't see this getting into the rules, simply because it would be a rules change, not something new to the game, which is something that is avoidede since Doomsday, and especially since the Master Rulebook.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 09:04 pm: Edit

With this rule in place, the Hydrans would rule the galaxy. "Look, my DG can tractor all four ST-2s for only 2 power!"

By David Kass (Dkass) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 09:09 pm: Edit

Robert, We're at the edge of technobabble and I can come up with all kinds of reasons why it works the way it does (for example, most of the first point of power is spent powering the tractor beam generator and due to the properties of tractor beams there doesn't need to be any real power in it unless the target tries to fight; or small things have builtin tractor negating properties; or there is a minimum beam size inherent in the system that is about 200 m in diameter and is thus overkill for grabbing a drone, but cannot be fixed without making a tractor beam generator the size of the ship itself). As I said, I don't see any problem at any level with the current system working the way it does. If the B10 does not want to be tractored, it will cost more than 1 point of power to do it. If it does, its working to help the process and a cheap application makes perfect sense.

I will admit that I generally find "things don't work the way I expect" a bad reason to suggest a rule change. The logic/functioning of Trek technology has regularly proven to be at best loosely related to what we're used to.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:33 pm: Edit

I have to back David Kass's technobabble explaination. Most of the first point goes to setting up the beam. Points after that go to extending the range. Points that are used to maintain the beam on someone fighting it go directly to countering the counter break attempt. The actual locking of the beam take no more than the one point in any case as set by the rules. I.e. one point beyond all the added points to overcome the obsticle. You cannot establish a three point beam. It costs one point to create a beam. If you attach it to a drone or a Dreadnaught it up to you but the beam, which is a set bond strength, costs one point.

That is to make a point...

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 11:08 pm: Edit

As I said, this a probably a "it would have been swell if it had been proposed before doomsday" proposal.

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar) on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Well, maybe when the Admiral's Edition comes out in 20...maybe...[duck and cover]

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 01:36 am: Edit

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There is some practical sensibility behind it, but looking at it solely from a "Now a ship can do even more" aspect, I think is the wrong reason to come up with it.

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By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 03:59 am: Edit

This will make alot of other changes possible. For example, long range tractoring of seeking weapons would become possible. Having a PFT break up a drone swarm by using range 3 tractors could be a problem. Dropping the energy cost from 18 down to a mere 3 (for 6 tractors) transforms a lot of you must be kidding tactics into viable options.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 07:46 am: Edit

One thing the proposal would do is make the smaller (size class 4 ) some what more powerful relative to the larger sizes...

While it could be argued that all ships use the same rules...the change affects a larger percentage of the available total power curve (and reserve warp) in smaller sized units than in larger types.

Changing the tractor costs in a B10 is a relatively insignificant change when compared to the E4 (or even the E3!)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Tractoring a large group of drones at R3 for little cost allows you to T-Bomb the whole group with impunity.

Same goes for fighters. No need to death drag them, just tractor them a R3 and T-bomb them without fear of taking damage to yourself.

Along with Richard Well's post this make this proposal very dangerous to all SW and attrition units.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 02:13 pm: Edit

This problem can be mitigated by saying that the cost to extend range still cost a minimum of one point per hex past R1.

So a drone at R3 would still cost 2 1/4 points to tractor. At R1 it would cost only 1/4.

Or whatever.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 07:53 pm: Edit

Yeah, Using the light tractor mode without the Very Light Tractor mode does keep the situation from getting out of hand.

By David Slatter (Davidas) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 05:05 am: Edit

Loren

You are making the light tractor mode sound like a good addition to X-technology - where X-ships are supposed to be good against attrition units. While SVC has said that the legendary X-ship ability to completly trounce fighters and PFs was no more than a player myth, one could argue that X-technology does not yet fully explain why attrition units became obsolete.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 09:49 am: Edit

David, that is part of the myth.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 10:52 am: Edit

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Tractoring a large group of drones at R3 for little cost allows you to T-Bomb the whole group with impunity.

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By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 06:38 pm: Edit

I had a similar idea for either X1 or X2.

The idea was a tractor-tether box.

The tractor is limited to range-1, and can only tractor SC6 and smaller objects.

It would cost a full-point of power to use but it can be used multiple times with, say, a 4- or 8-impuilse deplay between attempts.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 08:09 pm: Edit

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Assuming, of course, that you have the tractors to do so. Tractors are in pretty short supply on most ships; with very few exceptions, frigates and even destroyers have only one or two of them.

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