New Rule Proposal: probably optional.

(JLK.0) FIGHTER/SHUTTLE FORMATION FLYING
Fighters and Shuttles can meet up in flight and form a close proximity formation mostly for defensive purposes while on approach to a target (or during the return flight to thier Carrier). This is different than Shuttle Convoys (I can't find the rules for Shuttle Convoys. Could someone give me a reference?) in that it is a Combat Maneuver.


(JLK.1) QUALIFYING UNITS: Shuttles and Fighters can adopt Formation Flying if they are of the same type, speed, facing and hex.

(JLK.11) TYPES OF FORMATIONS: There are two types of Formations: Attack and Defensive.

(JLK.2) CREATING A FORMATION: Formations are formed (and broken) during Step 6A2: Voluntary Movement Stage just before actual movement of playing pieces and after Evacuation. They are formed or broken the impulse they are announced (except in the case of an involuntary break up). A leader (and Forward Unit) and type must be declared and noted.

(JLK.21) Formations include a leader and up to three followers. An attack formation has only a Leader (which is also the forward unit) and a Defensive formation has both a leader (leading from the rear) and a Forward Unit. These must be noted and announced at the time a formation is created.

(JLK.211) The maximum size of a formation is four units.

(JLK.22) Any number of formations may be in a given hex. Each formation is a separate entity. Though they may be flying is what appears to be one very large formation it is really several small ones and these rules apply to each separately.

(JLK.23) Landing and Launching: Units cannot land in formation (not ever). Not on planets and certainly not on ships. The Formation must be broken the impulse prior to landing. Obviously Formations must be formed in flight and as such a Formation cannot launch as a formation.

(JLK.24) Atmosphere: Formations can be maintained in an atmosphere provided all rules for atmospheric flight are met. Units launching from a planet with an atmosphere may Form up in the atmosphere and then leave it into space maintaining the formation the entire time. (I need to work this out step by step.)

(JLK.3) JOINING OR LEAVING A FORMATION: Any qualifying unit (JLK.1) may join a formation after it is already formed.

(JLK.31) Any single unit in a formation can voluntarily drop out of the formation without breaking up the formation. This is announced one impulse and the unit is out of the formation the next. Dropping out will not be fast enough to save the formation from the possible effects of Involuntary Break Up due to tractoring, HET, crippling etc.

(JLK.32) Destruction of the leader will cause the formation to break naturally the next impulse and a new formation can form through normal means.

(JLK.33) Destruction of a unit in a formation group that is not the leader does not affect the formation but is simply removed.


(JLK.4) MANEUVERING: To stay in formation ALL maneuvers must always be the same for all units in the formation. Not matching the maneuvers of the others causes an involuntary break up.

(JLK.41) Formations may re-form to present a new leader. Simply break the formation then declare and form a new formation.

Example: On impulse 1 a group of four fighters declares they are Forming up. Fighter #4 is undamaged and so is selected as leader. On impulse two the fighters are formed up. Subsequent fire damages fighter #4 and so on impulse #5 the player declares the formation is breaking up. On impulse #6 the formation is broken up and is a normal stack of fighters. This same impulse the group declares they are forming up with a new leader; fighter #2. On impulse #7 the fighters are flying in the new formation. Alternatively these fighters might have HET'd on impulse 6 and reformed as a Defensive Formation.

(JLK.42) A formation can HET while in formation in a very limited fashion. The entire group must HET together and end up facing the same direction. Additionally, this breaks up the formation but is not an involuntary break up. The formation can later be re-formed. E.g. can be declared the next impulse (or later) and formed the following impulse (either as Attack or Defensive Formations). Note: If only part of the formation performs an HET this WILL cause an Involuntary Break Up. This includes a Fighter performing an HET to break a tractor lock-on.

(JLK.43) Forcing a Dogfight against a member of a formation can cause that formation to involuntarily break up. However, include the enemy fighter that is forcing the break up in the random selection in (JLK.5)

(JLK.5) INVOLUTARY BREAK UP. In the event of an involuntary break up roll one die for the unit that caused the break up (more than one is possible). If the result is a 5 or 6 apply one damage point to the offender and one other unit in the formation chosen randomly. Assign each remaining unit a number from one to six and role one die. If the result is a number that is not assigned then role again until the result matches a unit.

(JLK.51) Fire control (and passive fire control) is disrupted for all units for 2 impulses (i.e. formation members cannot aquire targets) after an Involuntary Breakup. The formation is broken and can be reformed using the normal procedures after the two impulse fire control disruption.

(JLK.52) An involuntary breakup occurs at the time in which whatever caused the breakup occurred. Example: If one of a Formation Groups units is tractored an involuntary break up may occur during Operate Tractors of step 6B4 or the SoP.

(JLK.53) Tractoring a unit in a formation can cause an involuntary break up. Roll one die for each successful tractor link established against a formation. If the result is 4-6 the unit is removed from the formation and apply (JLK1.xx(IBU)). Otherwise, simply remove the tractored unit from the formation and the rest of the group stays in formation.

(JLK.54) Crippling the leader of a formation will cause the formation to break up IF the rest of the formation does not slow equally.

(JLK.541) A crippled non-leader unit may drop out of formation when crippled unless the entire group is already moving slowly enough match its speed. If a mid-turn speed change to a slower speed were to match the new speed of a crippled unit then it could stay in formation. This sort of timing would be nearly impossible to accomplish, of course.

(JLK.55) Restricted Maneuvers: Formations cannot Dog Fight (J7.0) or use EM (C10.0)

(JLK.6) ENEMY FIRE: Any fire against An Attack Formation from the formations FA arc can only strike the leader. A defensive formation is the opposite and incoming fire is covered from the RA arc by the leader (who is actually following).

(JLK.61) Seeking Weapons: Seeking Weapons targeted against units of a formation will target the leader. If the formation breaks up later the seeking weapons will remain locked on the Leader unit even if it reforms into another Formation and is not the leader of the new formation.

(JLK.7) EW: ECM (Not ECCM) for units in formations becomes cumulative. If four fighters each have a two point EW pod active the entire formation could benefit from 8 ECM. This benefit is gained or lost during the Lock-On phase of step (6B3) of the Sop the impulse following any change of formation status. (i.e. is gained the impulse after a formation is formed and lost the impulse after a formation is broken (voluntary or involuntary).

(JLK.71) If one of the units in a Formation is an EWF its EW (including ECCM) is added to the groups totals but cannot be lent to any other firghters in the squadron. An EWF that is not part of a Formation can lend its EW normally as if each Formation member were a separate unit. This is the same for a Carrier lending to its squadron in which some of all of its fighters may be in formations. (i.e. the fact that a carriers fighters are in formation does not affect its lending EW to those fighters in any way.)

(JLK.8) DIRECTIONAL FIRE: An Attack formations fire is not disrupted in the forward arc in any way but fire to the rear is disrupted(e.g. cannot fire rear firing weapons). Defensive Formations are under the opposite restriction (e.g. cannot fire forward). This is due to the fact that ALL of the pilots attention is in the direction of the constantly shifting formation.

(JLK.9) AREA OF EFFECT DAMAGE AND TERRAIN:

(JLK.91) ESGs ignore the fact that units are in formations completely and damage is applied normally.

(JLK.92) Mines ignore the fact that units are in formations completely and damage is applied normally.

(JLK.93) Damage (and Affects) caused by Terrain is applied to each unit except in the case of Asteriod and Dust Cloud damage which is appied only to the forward unit.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 04:46 pm: Edit

Loren,

What are the benefits of the attach and defensive formations?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 05:01 pm: Edit

Other units are covered in a particular direction (either forward or aft depending on type). See (JLK.6) and (JLK.61).

Also both have large EW benefits and the ECM from each individual unit is cumulative for the Formation. See (JLK.7)

Tactical Note: Formations are generally not advisable once your fighters are in close to a battle. Formation are for approach and retreat. Formations are vulnerable from the side and to tractoring.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 05:46 pm: Edit

Loren, have you heard of the tactic called "the Thatch Weave" which was (IIRC) a tactical procedure created by Jimmy Thatch while flying Grumman F4F Wildcats in early World War 2. The thatch weave intended to take advantage of the wildcats heavy armament (6 x 50 Cal wing mounted machine guns) in such a way that if an enemy fighter (such as a Zero) made a firing run on one of the wildcats, the "weave" would allow the 2nd fighter to draw a "bead" on the target...ussually with fatal results to the Zero...

Such a tactic could have profound implications in a dog fight.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 05:46 pm: Edit

Ahhh, so my cheap ST-F fighters can protect my ST-2 and ST-H fighters, allowing them to close and destroy the enemy?

I'm afraid the potential for abuse with this rule is rampant; even the current Convoy rules in D15 allow for significant abuse, hence the large usage limitations on them.

i.e. , its a great idea, from a flavor perspective, but impossible to balance.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 12:54 am: Edit

Andy: Units have to be of the same type (JLK.1) to prevent just such an abuse. To maintain a formation at translight speeds requires the units to have the same operating characteristics. At least to gain the benefits of THIS rule. Any units could fly in some sort of formation but would get the benifits of this rule.

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 11:56 pm: Edit

I seem to remember films showing elements (2 fighters)taking off at the same time, if not an entire flight (4 fighters). Maybe JLK.23 can have some form of exception for an emergency launch. I think tactical squadrons/interceptors had to be at a status for immediate launch when radar picked up targets. If a Romulan decloaked near a planet, the fighters probably wouldn't have time to get into a formation.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 12:46 am: Edit

Loren,

This is an interesting idea. Have you though about different types of formations diamond or wedge for example instead of offensive-defensive? These formation would take on racial characteristics (ISC 3 inline with one behind). Then certain offensive or defensive manuevers are done from the formation. Just a thought.

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 09:15 am: Edit

Since the four finger formation (leader, wingman to port, second element leader to right and his wingman on his right)is the one I mainly know of (other than the WW2 British V formation, consisting of 3 fighters in a V wedge), Joseph has a point. Would non-humanoids make a formation like a paw, perhaps with one fighter further back, like a rear claw?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 10:46 am: Edit

I didn't want to specify the shape of the formation. I figured the pilots would form up in whatever shape was needed (or the player wants to imagin).

Remember, formation are best when the enemy is ahead or behind so they are intended for use during the journey between the target and launch point.

I suppose it would be possible to have some fighters launch in formation from some places but it would be a rulein itself to define where that could happen and when. I'd rather say that they can only form up in flight.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 10:23 pm: Edit

Loren,

You are probably correct. It would be more complex having formation types and various formation movements for offense and defense.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 10:27 pm: Edit

...and SFB is complex enough as it is.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:14 am: Edit

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 02:13 pm: Edit

The abilities identified in JLK.61 and JLK.7 are so huge that it's probably game-breaking.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Richard: These are significant bonuses indeed but a formation is vulnerable at short range from attack from anywhere other than the formation direction.


A new thought I had was to add that following ANY break up of a Formation, member fighters cannot aquire targets for the following impulse (they can neither fire offensively or defensively).

This relfects the time it takes to separate and get out of formation mode and Encurages players to open up their formations at some distance from targets.

I forgot to mention that units in Formation cannot fire heavy weapons or launch drones. They may fire in defense. This includes Phasers at SC5 and smaller units, Dog Fight Drones, ADD and Chaff.

This then limits a formation of assault fighters like A-10s from closing in formation to R10 and attacking under formation flyings great EW benefits.

Formation flying is intended to get the units to the battle and back but not to give them any major advantage in actual close combat.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 12:58 pm: Edit

I've come up with a simpler and better way of handling damage for fighters in formation. This is just a quick draft. This will likely eliminate the two TYPES of formation and create only one.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Change damage rule to: Damage from direct fire is dispersed evenly through out the formation starting with the leader then applying damage points one at a time to each of the others, going round back to the leader and on until all damage has been dispersed. Individual units may be targeted IF there is no ECM shift and the range is 5 or less. If these factors are met by the attacking player that player may choose how the damage is dispersed by firing at the formation in general or at a single unit within.

Seeking weapons are tageted on the formation but strike individual units randomly. It is possible two or more seeking weapons would strike the same target. ADD's are handled under this rule.
====================================

I suppose I will need to rewrite the entire rule. But first I'd like some thoughts if this is a good change or not (simpler is better is what I expect but does this make the formation too powerful?)

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 02:16 am: Edit

What does it do to the chaff rules???

Garth L. Getgen

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 03:37 am: Edit

Good point. I don't know exactly. I'll have to review. I think you should be able to still use chaff but let me check it out.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 11:40 am: Edit

I've thought about it but haven't checked the rules. This is my first idea about how to deal with chaff.

Since the formation is so tight and operates more like a single unit it is difficult to tell what unit might be the target (this is true with fighters stacked in one hex anyway). Even labbing the drones will only tell the formation is the target. Fighters in formation have a couple choices.

A) They can ALL release chaff.
B) The can guess and have one or some release chaff.
C) They can break formation and the drones will randomly lock on various units.

I am not willing to entertain the idea that one chaff can cover the entire formation. Chaff is too specific.

This creates another interaction. What if one or part of a Formation pulls out while seeking weapons are targeted on the formation? I need to add that a minimum size of a formation is 2 units. If one or two units pulls out then select a relative number of seeking weapons and roll a die. If the result is 1 or 2 that weapon continues to track the larger looking formation.

EXAMPLE: Four fighters are in formation with four drones tacking the formation. One fighter voluntarily pulls out. Roll one die for one drone to see what it continues to track.

I want to minimize the die rolling. Truthfully I'd want to roll a die for each and every seeking weapon every time there is a change but that isn't needed.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 03:41 pm: Edit

Loren,

Are the drones tracking the formation or an individual fighter (how did the drone obtain a lockon)? What kind or drone and what kind of unit fired the drone.

The other aspects to consider are mega-fighter systems and phaser firing arcs for some fighters are different than just RA.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 04:12 pm: Edit

Seeking Weapons (SW) tracking a fighter that joins a formation start to track the formation. If a fighter then pull out then use the rule above. One drone tracking a fighter that joins a formation would track the formation and if another fighter then pull out that drone might track the other fighter away from the formation.

LOCK-ON? I don't follow. Lock-on is obtained the standard way. All seeking weapons are handled this way including Type-6.

Formations are primarilly a defensive thing to get the fighter/bombers in to target range. To conduct offensive operations they need to break apart. However, making them unable to fire would be silly and unrealistic. Still, they cannot just fire in anyway. Formation will have firing restrictions based on the formation and not the arcs of the individual fighters during free flight.

Mega-Fighters and Non-mega-fighters can form formations. The requirements are same base type and same flight speed. Obviously a mega-fighter can go faster than it's non-mega cousens so it would have to slow down.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 11:12 pm: Edit

Loren,

Sorry for the confusing post. The aspect I am trying to address: Aren't ships, drones, fighters, etc all targeted seperately?

If that is correct there would be 3 targeting opportuities, when the fighters are forming a group,when in formation, and when attacking the target. The current rules don't address (at least I don't think they do) targeting a group.

I guess I see this from a different perspective. Fighters in a group have defensive advantages, especially with ew pods or an ew fighter. Also being in a formation has disadvantages. I would like see what these are and then possible rules on fighters in a group. Just my thoughts. I like the basic idea though and appreciate you trying to come up with something.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 12:11 am: Edit

Joseph: This is a new rule and seeking weapons targeting the group is a function of the rule.

I think that when I post the new draft of the rule things will be easier to see. Right now the rule is too rough. I'm going to eliminate the need for designating a leader and such by use of the latest posts. It makes more sense and is easier to play (NO NOTES!). There are a couple added die roles but did I say no notes needed?

I'll make sure to address these issues.

I have a lot on my plate. Currently I have something on the pot for the next three or four products, am starting two new fiction stories (the second Korgan story is in SVC's hands now, I'm starting a third). I've got this rule that I really like and the Fed CSA (submitted). I'm also working on a new race that even Klingons have nightmares about called The Drell. On top of that I'm doing a passel of art pieces for a possible future product for ADB and then I've got may RL work (currently working three contracts simultaneously).

There seems to be some interest in me getting this worked out so I'll raise it a couple notches up the priority ladder. I don't know when I'll get to redoing it but hopefully soon.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 12:40 am: Edit

Loren,

Thanks for the reply. look forward to the draft rules when they fit into your schedule.