The Lyans should be able to mount an ESG on a PF. It would greatly enhance a PF flotilla if one or more PF's were in the flotilla. With its drone killing, Mine Finding, and Ship Ramming ablities alone it would be worth it. As the ESGs got smaller during the General War they should be able to make one that would fit on a PF. The Lyrans NEED one! Well also it would be cool also!

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 08:26 am: Edit

Pointe the First: ESGs are not small; they come in rather limited numbers on most Lyran ships, and they are considered double-sized weapons for option mounts. Last time I checked, no PF in the game mounted a double-sized weapon.

Pointe the Second: ESGs suck power like a Ford Expedition sucks gasoline. PFs are usually running a bit too lean to properly feed an ESG.

Pointe the Third: If there are PFs around, there are almost always other Lyran warships around, warships that are altogether more capable of powering and utilizing said ESG.

Pointe the Fourth: Sending an ESG-equipped PF to ram a warship is a death sentence for the PF crew. Given that Lyrans can and do rebel (the LDR being a case in point), I don't see the Lyran command being too thrilled about building PFs that are rather blatently optimized for a suicide mission.

So, not only do the Lyrans not need one, they really shouldn't even want one.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 11:14 am: Edit

Plus (G23.13) explictly prohibits it.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 11:27 am: Edit

Pointe the Fifth: Having a flotilla operate with ESG interactions would constrain theflotilla way too much to be really effective.

Would you have just one PF with ESG? The is becomes a prime target and probably never gets to use it.

OR

Would you have several or all PF's have ESG: ESG interaction would force them apart or else they would have to use their ESGs one at a time. Neither is a good things for PFs.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 04:31 am: Edit

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Quote:

Pointe the Fourth: Sending an ESG-equipped PF to ram a warship is a death sentence for the PF crew. Given that Lyrans can and do rebel (the LDR being a case in point), I don't see the Lyran command being too thrilled about building PFs that are rather blatently optimized for a suicide mission.

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By Donovan A Willett (Ravenhull) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 09:49 am: Edit

Death Rider rule (K7.11) "...new crew is on (or is permitted) on a death rider."

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 10:10 am: Edit

Shouldn't that be "no" crew instead of "new"?

By Donovan A Willett (Ravenhull) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 10:16 am: Edit

Don't pick on the guy with lexdyxia... lol

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 10:21 am: Edit

Right there with you!

By Donovan A Willett (Ravenhull) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 10:24 am: Edit

I think it is pretty well established that ESG are weapons for warship, not attrition units. I can't see them taking the time and money to put them on PFs. Especially since it would require
R&D money to make one that would fit.

The only way I could see ESG tech on a PF would be something like the ESG projectile in CL28. Beyond that, it just don't fit the universe.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 10:37 am: Edit

The would have obvious uses clearing minefields (expecially if controlled as a death rider). Having one of these attached to a minesweeper would be awesome.

They would be an excellent counter to the deployment of St-H and St-X.

While they are difficult to deploy they are not unbalancing. I don't see why we don't give the idea an opportunity to prove itself.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 11:11 am: Edit

THe only ESG I could see working on a PF would be one of smaller design. Since the X-tech ESG comes out about this time I could assume that some of that technology is what allowed the more compact result.

CAP = 4
Max Range = 2
Duration = 24 impulses
Size = One Space

A PF could mount one unit (there simply is no more top deck space for a second).

Still, you have all the interaction problems of before and you really don't want to use them around hellbores.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 08:53 pm: Edit

Better to stick with rules that already exist, limit the PF-ESG to being opperationally exactly like the EY ESG.

By JT Gawboy (Orioneer) on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 12:30 am: Edit

In SFB rules were made to be "Revised" in to Errata it seems.

Idea is one ESG on a PF to give the PF flotilla ESG support when sent on a mission away from its tender. The idea is too long in coming in my slighted to one certain side opinion.

They will probably say it was protyped down the road but do to war constringentcies it was thought to be a waste of resources and never was fielded and figured a DW or old FF could do the same thing. An offical "Conjectural" version may be offered I bet at a later time.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 01:32 am: Edit

Nooooo ... he used the "E" word!! Run!! Hide!!

JT ... perhaps this something for SSJ, which is ALL conjectural stuff, but not for standard SFB. And I hate to tell you this, but there's probably fifty version on file.

But, hey, don't let that stop you from posting "new" ideas ... most of them won't be new, but you never know .....

Welcome to the board, by the way. Why don't you fill out your profile data so we can get to know you??


Garth L. Getgen

By Stephen Brackett (Brak) on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 03:00 pm: Edit

I'm sure the Hydrans would like for Lyran PFs to mount a Hellborer acquisition device.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 08:17 pm: Edit

E word? Erata?

click
ohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohno!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Raise shields!

Begin Eratic manuvers! Begin Electronic Warfare, level 6! Maximum acceleration! don't load Photons or phasers, our weapons are useless against the E threat! :launch the Log ...
Tell my wife my last words........ (static)

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 09:04 pm: Edit

Systems....overloading. Letter/number combinations...flooding screen. Can't...get..out...too...much...infor..ma...tion...Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 01:57 pm: Edit

It has been more than 24 hours since the unauthorized use of the "E" word.

Secure from alert status, you may resume discussion of the Lyran ESG PF.

By JT Gawboy (Orioneer) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 04:55 pm: Edit

The ESG equipped PF would give the Lyrans more drone defense for their larger ships also. So there :P.

And besides its cool!

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 05:49 pm: Edit

I see that reason isn't going to work with you, so I'm simply point you (as did Starsabre) to (G23.13):

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Quote:

SIZE REQUIRED: Units smaller than size class 4 cannot carry an ESG. This prohibition includes, but is not limited to, fighters, shuttles, PFs, small ground bases, medium ground bases, mines, defense satellites, and seeking weapons.

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By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 06:40 pm: Edit

What makes this discussion not silly is that Lyran PFs suck. The race that invented the PF, the race that throws PFs on every ship it can, has PFs that suck.

Here's why they suck:
Phaser-2s in the same number as other race's PFs have phaser-1s, which amounts to half the firepower outside range 3.

Disruptors. These take a lot of power (especially compared to stasis Fs or drone racks) and do not hold. They lack crunch. While disruptors are great for attrition over the long term, PFs don't have the durability for that. Plus, PF disruptors are limited to range 10.

It's ridiculous that Lyran PFs are among the worst in the game. How do we make them better?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 06:45 pm: Edit

They're fine as they are. PF's do not a force alone make. The Lyran PFT's are fine ships - IMHO better than virtually any other PFT you can find - as are other Lyran fighting ships. Basing the need for PF ESG's on this theory is akin to saying Rom fighters should all carry plasma S's because they suck. An ESG on a PF is a terrible idea. Period.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 06:59 pm: Edit

How do we make them better...?

Hmmm...OK ESG is out but what other way might they be improved in a way that isn't going to readilly apply to every other race?


Here is a crazy one...

What IF given the catamaran design of the Lyran PF they are capable of carrying Drogues under the center section. They can only be loaded on the PFT and pre-scenario or between scenarios.

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 08:42 pm: Edit

What if a PF got the tri-marian refit? Maybe the center section could have APRs or batteries, plus another disruptor? It would probably increase the movement cost, though.