Being a ball of energy, I think a plasma might be hard to cloak.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Instead of trying to make it invisible (cloaked) do the opposite. Make the thing hot or bright to the tracking computers. Think of it like a pulsar-like effect. Given that it is a small energy source compared to a real pulsar make the effect range 4-5 hexes. The pulsar-like effect add 1 to defensive phaser fire die roles (or something similar). The extra energy used for an overload provides the pulsar-like protection to the torpedo. It is a rough idea.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 03:55 pm: Edit

My thoughts on X-plasma. I've mentioned this in previous posts from a year or more ago, but since we have some "new blood", I figured I'd mention it again.

I think that the basic X1 abilities given to plasma (fastloading, etc.), combined with what we got in R10 (sabot, ECM plasma, the carronade) is enough to go with in X2. What I really want in an X2 plasma is a return to the "big warhead". Back when I first started playing SFB, the plasma R was the big gun; it was what everyone was afraid of. Since X1, it just isn't that ferocious anymore. Ships can outrun them, phaser them down with greater ease, or take the hit more effectively because of better shielding (both in terms of overall strength, and in repair capability).

What I'd like to see, then, for X2 is a sort of X plasma R...a big, expensive plasma that makes an enemy player wary of your ship, and turns 'em white when you launch it. I'd be satisfied with a 60 point warhead that has a max range of 40, but would go as high as 75, provided the arming costs were there. No "cloaked" plasmas, or anything so escoteric. Just gimme the big crunch plasma, and I'll be happy.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 04:02 pm: Edit

I agree.

Mike came up with the 60-point X-torp. Then I came up with the 80-point Z-torp.

Which inspired me to come up with rules for Heavy Plasma Torpedoes

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 07:54 pm: Edit

Mike and John,

The idea I suggested would be for medium torps. I am not suggesting a cloak. Conceptually I have difficult seeing how one could dampen the energy signature of a plasma ball.

You know how night vision devices work, amplify light. 1st gen when exposed to bright light sources bloomed out and the intensifer tube might burn out. Apply this concept to a plasma torp. Extra energy is applied (to the torp) that as it dissipates affect the targeting sensors (effect is limited in range from torp and how long it lasts). The effect is greatest against GW ships and minimal against X2. This would be used for the RH torp as an alternate arming sequence.

I am not saying this is a good idea but I felt I needed to explain it better. If still fits in the "or anything so escoteric" category that is okay. I know about as much about big plasmas as I do electricity, I don't what it to connect with me.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 08:01 pm: Edit

What the heck is going on????

I can post anything but this ONE message. I can post this but if I type in the message I want about 60 point plasmas the system hangs and wont post. WTF????

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 08:07 pm: Edit

OK Lets try this in parts:
=================================
1st paragraph of original message
=================================
I find 60 points to be a very satisfying size greatly for the reason that an enveloper would be 120 points (20 points per shield even...gads! I don't know any ship that would be willing to just take that.)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 08:07 pm: Edit

OK, now the middle part
===============================

75 or 80 points and I think the ship should lose it's next movement or move one hex backwards and roll for shock (twice if enveloped!).

The Key to really making the X-torp sit well in X2 is the 40 range that Mike proposes. As far as adding other abilities I think it would be good to maybe add those over a few years.
X-Torp. plan vannilla crunch torp. Y205
Pseudo comes out the following year (free of cost)
Enveloping comes out Y207 when the Gorns, having copied it from the Roms, get the vanilla version. No added cost.
Sabot refit becomes available in Y208 for a realative cost.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 08:08 pm: Edit

Now the last part
============================

Just a suggestion to show some developement time and some difficulties with creating a torp of this size. Might also have a Size Class limitation say SC3 and larger only (since on a SC4 ship it would be a torp with engines and if you wanted a bridge the ship would become SC3 anyway.)

This easing into production works with the fact that Y205 will have the greatest mix of fleets and each year after that fleets and squadrons will see increasingly more X2 vessels in them. A Sabot X-torp is going to be very nasty against anything NON-X so by introducing the plasma bennis slowly you provide some balance. The schedule I suggested might even be doubled or more.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 08:13 pm: Edit

OK, THAT WAS TOTALLY BIZARE!!!!

When I tried to post all three parts together in one post it would not post. I'd get action canceled. When I tried to post it by going through EDIT on the "Testing" post above it would not post. I've got no problem posting in any other threads or posting anything else in this thread. Only that post in this thread. WTFIUWT????

BTW, I just spend a 1/2 hour trying to get it to work with about 8 attempts. The status bar at the bottom stops about half way and hangs for about 3 minutes then the window goes blank for another two and then displays "Action Canceled".

By Peter David Boddy (Pdboddy) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Hehe, I watched your posting odyssey using frequent refreshes of the browser. Maybe they've enabled a "long winded post" disabler? :P

I like the ship being pushed backwards idea. And a 20 point hit per shield sounds •••• scary if you're on the receiving end, and •••• fine if you're the one doing the firing.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 08:23 pm: Edit

Loren?

Did you 'po' your pc?

(Note, for the puritans among us, 'po', freely translates to "perturbed off".)

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 08:28 pm: Edit

For the record, I have no problem with 60 point plasma torps.

One of the "primary characteristics" of playing Romulans (or playing against ROMS!) is the plasma ballet and having a healthy respect for the damage potential of the Type (be it R, G or F or whatever) is a good thing.

With the advent of XP and X ships, a really powerful new Plasma brings things back into a kind of balance, IMO.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Loren,

Note that the Type-Z cannot be launched from a SC3 hull without shock (and canot be put on SC4).

The exception to this is the XKE and my version is a unique ship.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Loren, being so disjointed I wasn't able to follow what you were trying to propose. Can you put it all in a single post and repost it?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 09:34 pm: Edit

John, it's a ship built around a weapon just like the original. That's fair.

The "Pushed backwards" rule was just a bit of sarcasm sillyness. I think 60 is big enough. 50 doesn't carry the intimidation it once had but is still a hard hit; still enough to bring down a CCX shield with light reinforcement.

The thing is during the X2 era ships will typically have the power to spare for enveloping or fast loading so even the R-torp then becomes a much more dangerous weapon. A 60 point X-torp starts of on ships with pleanty of power so it begins life with that extra benni.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 09:35 pm: Edit

Tos....D'oh!

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 10:05 am: Edit

---

Quote:

For the record, I have no problem with 60 point plasma torps.

---

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 02:02 pm: Edit

A triple R would be murder on Andros and wouldn't play nice with them.

Of course who would want to play nice with those guys.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 02:33 pm: Edit

Indeed we might not have to play perfectly nice with Andro. It's a (i.e. one of many) reason they don't come back.

Then again if they do come back thay might have something new to bring back balance...like sheilds that pop up when the PA's go down...ack!

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 02:36 pm: Edit

No adding 5 to the glory zone. That has the same effect as increasing overload range. Combined with the sabot option and fastloading, this would be too much. Max damage out to range 15? No thanks.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Loren;

I don't think we know whether the Andros come back. We do know that the Magellanic Cloud starbase was destroyed, but we also know the Andros had a presence in our galaxy in places other than the Alpha Sector. While the Xork invasion looks to be the "big event" during the X2 period, I'm not sure we can rule out the possibility of minor Andro raids (more on the scale of their GW actions) launched from other strongholds within this galaxy.

At any rate, none of us know what SVC is thinking along these lines so "playing nice with the Andros" should still be a legitimate consideration (though not the most important one) when considering X2 tech, at least until we hear deifnitive word from TPTB that the Andros have been permanently driven out of Alpha Sector.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 03:05 pm: Edit

I with you there for the most part. The one thing is that Andros, unlike other races, have little ability to adapt so having them be outclassed for a while make sense to me. They began superior but their ability to adapt was greatly delayed by galactic separation and their one place (we know of) to make changes was destroyed. We adapt faster our shipyards and reserch facilities are right here in the middle of the battle.

However, this is not to say they can't adapt, just that they won't for a considerable time.

But take not that I said "Perfectly Nice". X2 shoudl still play nice in general with Andros. Just that playing Andros against X2 can and should (IMO) be more of a challenge than before.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Note:

For those who do not speak MJC, what he is actually adovcating is adding +5 to the max-warhead range of all existing plasma torpedoes.

Why he chooses to phrase this in terms of plasma-bolting I cannot understand.

This has been a public service.

By Peter David Boddy (Pdboddy) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 05:38 pm: Edit

Hehe, what about a second wave of Andros from their home galaxy? With a wave a colony ships and newer tech warships to protect them on their journey?

As for plasmas, I can hear the Romulans, ISC and Gorn chanting, "Bigger is better, bigger is better!".

Though as mentioned above, upping the strength of plasma makes it that much rougher on the Andros, since they really have no way of dodging the plasmas except for phasering...