We might want to concentrate on doing SSD/Rules. SVC will probably tell Ted what he wants or let Ted supply some samples. I really doubt we will have any impact on the way 2X ships look. (Other than SSD design.)

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 01:11 pm: Edit

Put simply, sure the SSDs and other things are going to look different. "Refreshing" as it were. But if you compared a drawing of an XCA next to a CA I think you should be hard pressed to tell the difference. In other words I think a Fed XCA should look like a TOS Constitution Class (warp nacelle strut angles and all), at least on a superficial level. Likewise an XD7 should look like a D7.... etc. Reason being it preserves the basic SFB look and since we CAN'T use movie-era/TNG-era styles anything else we use wouldn't be recognizable and wouldn't draw consumers.

Kenneth rightfully points out that SVC will make the final call on X2 styling. Nobody here gets to make those decisions (and it's probably just as well). I can't wait to see what Ted comes up with too.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 01:36 pm: Edit

Rant mode on:

Quite frankly, I don't give a rat's red ass what the SSD looks like at this point. They can all be squares, as far as it matters; the problem is getting the rules and systems down. Once that's done, THEN you can worry over aesthetics and such. Not trying to sound off here, but really, this kind of thing pisses me off. I can't count the number of times I've seen someone post an SSD or something here, and the first thing someone says is "I don't like the look of (fill in the blank)." No comment about the overall playability or concept of the thing; just pointless criticism of the shape. That kind of critique isn't usefull at all, and gets this project absolutely no where...especially since we all know SVC is going to re-shape them as he sees fit.

Rant Mode off.

By John Pepper (Akula) on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 03:35 pm: Edit

Sorry for not clarifying!! I meant aesthetics!! The ships in X1 look like an attempt to do the motion picture ships with stuff like the engine pylons but then not quite changing enough to make it look different. I realize that this is a touchy issue and I'm sorry I was misinterpreted!! Also was not trying to start a debate over what SSD’s or X2 ships should look like.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 11:18 am: Edit

While not technically on topic, I have a favor to ask.

The program I draw SSDs in does not make "ADB" style SSDs. I've got four SSDs up that I'd like to get converted to ADB-type SSDs for use with SFBOL

They're up at http://www.adastragames.com/downloads/LMC_SFB.html

Email me if you're interested.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 11:29 am: Edit

Ken, I've actually already started. Probably be tomorrow or Tues. before they are done.⁴²

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 12:35 pm: Edit

Thanks, Robert!

Which ones have you started? Is it worthwhile to split the load up, or easier for you to do it all yourself?

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 12:54 pm: Edit

A word of caution. Normal SSDs wont mesh properly with the SFBOL client. The boxes have to be 16x16 (pixels) for the client to handle them properly.

If the ships are to be done in the style for uploading onto SFBOL they will have to meet that and other requirements. No tables copyright etc.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 12:57 pm: Edit

Thanks, Ken.

Can you outline those requirements here, or point to a link where they're listed?

Migt be useful for the 2x dev team as well.

By Marcin Radzikowski (Warchild) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 01:21 pm: Edit

Ken,

Are you refering to version 2.x of SFBOL or X2? If version 2.x of SFBOL then you should know that support for that was dropped a few months ago...

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 01:29 pm: Edit

Ken,

The basic requirements are no tables included with the SSD if its to be uploaded into the client. The ADB Copyright must be on the SSD. The only table that can be included is the Turn Mode Table.

Look at the SSDs that Aaron (or myself) have done as an example as to whats acceptable.

As to the 2X team needing the info. I've already done the SSDs for a bunch of the older ships. Look at the 2X thread for SFBOL SSDs. Unfortunately a good batch of them got deleted somehow and I haven't had the time to do any of the more recent ones.

But anybody who wants one done can simply email me with a request (and the SSD), and I can whip one up fairly quickly (time permitting).

Right now I'm simply waiting on SPP to process the rules for the second race in the Emodule I'm working on. (Theres 8 total races.) But he's been so busy that not much has been done.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 01:32 pm: Edit

BTW the 2X SSDs aren't for uploading to the SFBOL client. Since they are User Defined ships I dont have to chop up the SSDs by removing the tables.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 01:35 pm: Edit

Ken, if you and Robert Cole could divvy up the workload for making the LMC pseudoTCs for SFBOL, I'd be much obliged. Petrick has done the other SSDs. The pseudo-TCs are at:

http://www.adastragames.com/downloads/LMC_SFB.html
Copyright is ADB.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 08:04 pm: Edit

I already downloaded them. I'll see what I can get done. Fortunately SFBOL already incorporates the LMC tables.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 08:57 pm: Edit

I already got the outline and box layout done for the Mag TC. Now I have to slap the labels on them. Such as IMP Warp etc and do the Data Entry Block thats typical for SFBOL. Should take roughly .5-1hr in total. But I'm watching a movie tonight, so wont be able to touch it until tomorrow at the earliest.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 11:02 pm: Edit

Robert,

If you want go ahead and do the other SSDs and email them to me (and Ken B.). I'll then do the modifications for SFBOL. BTW doing ship defs takes roughly 30 minutes per completed ship.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 11:48 pm: Edit

The Baduvai TC is just about done (I can't find my ADB-style CPA chart from when I first bought E1)... but since you don't need charts I'll send it now. Of course, the Uthiki will be a slam dunk, but that's tomorrow's objective.⁴²

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 08:45 am: Edit

Got it. It shouldn't be to hard to do a SFBOL ship def.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 08:59 am: Edit

This is probably a silly question, but what does any of the past couple of days have to do with X2?

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 09:18 am: Edit

Mike: Absolutely nothing -- apologies for the wasted traffic.

It was just the best place I could find for people who did ADB-style SSDs.

Ken, Robert, lets move the discussion somewhere else - Ken, got a better place to put it?

Once the ropic moves, Mike, if you want SVC to remove these messages, I've no objections.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 10:57 am: Edit

Ah, I see. No, I don't care about the traffic...I was just curious. Maybe the SFB online thread has something? I never really go in there.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 12:03 pm: Edit

Just doing a little house cleaning. No biggie.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 11:50 pm: Edit

It occurs to me that we should begin turning our efforts to building the SSDs for X1R. We presented a list of counters but if we want to see X1R (or whatever they end up calling it) published then it would help to start producing SSDs.

I'll post the list of counters here. There are more counters listed then space in the module so some ships will be excluded.

Key:
Priority is from 1 (should be included) to 6 (should be excluded). The Sort is by Race, then Priority, then ship name.

YIS is only estimated for a few ships.

Module represents the module the SSD was or could be published in. Many PFTX class ships and RTN hunters could potentially be published in K2 to save space, depending on the final plans for K2.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 11:53 pm: Edit

Race	Ship	Priority	YIS	Module	Notes
Fed	DGX	1	182	CL16	2 Phot; 4 Drone
Fed	GVX	1	182	CL26	F-111 Scout Carrier; allowed to carry A-20 as GVAX
Fed	Tug-X	1
Fed	NCLX	2
Fed	CVHX	3	196	K2	Assault Carrier Scout; 12xF-14 or 12xF-15
Fed	DLX	3			2xPl-L; 2xPhot; 2xDrone DDX
Fed	DXD	3			DB Scout
Fed	FFSX	3
Fed	DEX	4			Carrier Escort
Fed	DNX	4
Fed	BCHX	5
General	Aux-CVAX	1			Fast Aux or X-Aux
General	Aux-CVLX	1			Fast Aux or X-Aux
General	Aux-PFTX	1			Fast Aux or X-Aux
General	Aux-SCSX	1			Fast Aux or X-Aux
General	F-N	1			Fast Freighter; could share SSD
General	F-N Pods	1			Pods
General	F-NQX	1			Q-ship
General	F-NX	1			X-Freighter
General	FRDX	1			FRD
General	L-QX	1			Q-ship
General	MonX	1			Monitor
General	S-QX	1			Q-ship
Gorn	Tug-X	1
Gorn	BDPX	2		K2	PFT
Gorn	CMPX	2	196	K2	Strike PFT RTN Hunter
Gorn	BDCX	3			Carronade Battle Destroyer
Gorn	HDPX	3		K2	Strike PFT
Gorn	DNX	4
Gorn	BCHX	5
Hydran	MTGX	1			Tug
Hydran	PFTX	2		K2	PFT
Hydran	TARX	2
Hydran	DCSX	3	196	K2	DCS RTN Hunter
Hydran	LEX	3			Aegis or X-escorts; Needs St-TX
Hydran	DNX	4
Hydran	BCHX	5
ISC	FFX	1
ISC	Tug-X	1
ISC	CAX	2			1xPPD; 2xPL-M; built to be cheaper
ISC	LTX	2			LTT
ISC	PFTX	2	196	K2	Strike PFT RTN Hunter
ISC	CAPX	3			No PPD; 3xPL-M
ISC	NCAX	3			X-Engines speed up this overgrown MC=1 ships
ISC	NCSX	3			X-Engines speed up this overgrown MC=1 ships
ISC	DNX	4
ISC	BCHX	5
Klingon	D5XD	1		CL16	DB Scout
Klingon	DXDA	1	186		Statis DXD
Klingon	T7X	1			Tug
Klingon	D5PX	2		K2	PFT
Klingon	D5XDA	2	187		Stasis D5XD
Klingon	E3X	2		SFT33	Unique and retired by Y186; needs counter
Klingon	FXD	2	186		DB Scout
Klingon	D5XS	3	188		Heavy Scout
Klingon	DWUX	3	196	K2	DCS RTN Hunter
Klingon	FXL	3			FWL version of the FX
Klingon	DNX	4
Klingon	BCHX	5
Kzinti	CDX	1		CL26	DB Scout; CMX hull
Kzinti	Tug-X	1
Kzinti	MPFX	2		K2	PFT
Kzinti	CMSX	3			DB
Kzinti	NDCX	3	196	K2	DCS RTN Hunter
Kzinti	DNX	4
Kzinti	BCHX	5
LDR	CWSX	1	192
LDR	CWX	1	191
LDR	MPSX	1	190
LDR	MPX	1	189
LDR	MPVX	2	191
LDR	PFWX	2	193
LDR	NCCX	5	196		Ended career as XP; could be published conjectural
LDR	NCVX	5	196		Ended career as XP; could be published conjectural
Lyran	SRPX	1	196	K2	Survey Tug like CL26:PAL-PTT; double weight PFT-12
Lyran	SRX	1	188		Survey Tug pre-Y195; PFT RTN Hunter post-Y195
Lyran	Tug-X	1	186
Lyran	BCX	2
Lyran	FX	2			Cheap new construction; quickly converted to a DWX
Lyran	PFTX	2		K2	DW Based PFT
Lyran	CWPX	3		K2	CW Based PFT
Lyran	DNX	4
Lyran	BCHX	5
Neo-Tholian	NCLX	1
Neo-Tholian	NDX	4			Could the Tholians ever build a NDD-RH?
Neo-Tholian	NFX	4			Could the Tholians ever build a NFF-RH?
Neo-Tholian	Rear Hull	5
Orion	PFTX	2		K2	PFT
Orion	DBRX	3
Orion	CRX	6		R3
Rom	NHX	1
Rom	SPHX	1			LTT
Rom	SUPX	1			CV; no special sensors
Rom	BHXP	2	184		Engines from a WE; not X-tech
Rom	SNXP	2	185		Engines from a BH; not X-tech
Rom	SPEX	2	196	K2	Strike PFT RTN Hunter
Rom	SPFX	3	186		Conjectural Mauler
Rom	THX	3	196	K2	Strike DCS RTN Hunter
Rom	WEXP	3	183		Engines from a KE; not X-tech
Rom	DNX	4
Rom	BCHX	5
Selt	CLX	3
Selt	CX	3
Selt	DDX	3
Selt	FFX	3
Selt	SCX	3			DD Based
Selt	BCHX	5
Selt	DNX	5
Tholian	PFTX	2		K2	PFT; PCX based
Tholian	CANX	3			X-Engines speed up this overgrown MC=1 ships
Tholian	CPFTX	3		K2	Based on CCX
Tholian	CSCX	3			CCX based Scout
Tholian	CWX	4
Tholian	CWSX	4
Tholian	DNX	4
Tholian	BCHX	5
WYN	DSX	1			Scout
WYN	FX	1
WYN	AxBCX	2
WYN	PFTX	2		K2	PFT; FFX based
WYN	LDX	4			Conjectural DWX for the WYN instead of the PBB
WYN	CAX	6		R3
WYN	DDX	6		R3
WYN	OCRX	6		R3

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 02:08 am: Edit

Tos;

We discussed this back when X1R was active and I'm probably just wasting both your time and mine by bringing it up again... but why do you want to see X-versions of the Neo-Tholian NDD and NFF? They just aren't very good candidates for X-conversion, even if the Tholians could produce new rear hulls.

The NDDX would be a particularly poor decision on the part of the Tholians since it uses a web caster on a poorly shielded hull, and the Tholians in this galaxy don't produce sufficient numbers of web casters that they could afford to put them on ships like that.

I'm also not wild about the CANX since I don't regard the CAN itself as a very good ship, despite its torpedo firepower. I think the CWH is superior both in its own right and as a candidate for X-conversion. Still, the CANX doesn't bother me nearly as much as the NDDX. I don't recall your ever having explained why the Tholians would want to build this ship, even if they could. They need to put their web casters on better platforms.

I apologize if I sound overly critical here. Maybe I'm missing something, but what is it about the NDD that makes the NDDX attractive?