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	Archive through November 28, 2004	25		11/28 08:17pm
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	Archive through December 02, 2004	25		12/02 10:55am

Try remote control only fighters for Selts. The fighters on a carrier require fewer competent crew than a PF flotilla. So the limit is inability or unwillingness to put Rams in small, easily destroyed fighters.

I see no reason why Gorns and Selts should not be able to opperate their own remote control fighters.

By Steven E. Ehrbar (See) on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 03:40 am: Edit

Loren, the troubles as I see them:

1) Contradicting the established history (as presented in GPD), the Seltorians weren't wiped out except for maybe a few individuals. Instead, a dozen or so ships, including a cruiser, escaped both the ISC and Klingons.

2) This group includes repair ships, despite the fact that R15.13 establishes that the Hive Ship was the only unit the Seltorians had in this galaxy capable of operational (G17.133/D9.4) or strategic (G17.134/U1.4) repairs.

3) This dozen-ship caravan of Seltorians, over the next six years, travel fifteen F&E hexes from Klingon space to hex 4019 without being detected by any of the powers in the area -- not the Klingons, Tholians, Federation, ISC, Romulans, Andorians, or any Orions willing to sell the information to any of them.

4) They set up on a half-dozen planets using supplies designed for the support of ships in combat, which are sufficiently adaptable for them to set up an industrial society able to build PFs in 2 years.

5) They build heavy PFs, despite SVC statements that HPFs are impossible.

6) These HPFs can't be operated from ships. The Neo-Seltorians build them anyway, despite the fact that they are therefore completely incapable of being used against the Tholians, nine F&E hexes there and back being well beyond the operating range of PF engines.

7) Despite R15.20 saying they can't fly fighters, they invent fighters that they can fly.

8) In their longest-distance combat deployment ever, the Tholians are willing to travel a distance equal to that from Tholia to Earth. This despite the fact that, with the colony being closer to Romulus itself than to Tholian space, it's a much bigger problem for the Romulans and thus a natural for "Let's you and him fight."

9) They trust that the Romulans, despite the precedent of Operation Nutcracker, do not intend to trap and destroy this fleet when it's vulnerable and easily cut off from Tholian space. They believe the Romulans when they give their word that the Seltorians really are Romulan enemies, rather than this being a ruse to allow the Romulans and Seltorians jointly destroy a Tholian fleet. They also can spare the ships and supplies to fight all the way over in hex 4019 without becoming vulnerable to an X2-ship-led Klingon attack.


I'm really not trying to be a downer. I just think it has too many stretches.

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 04:36 am: Edit

Well it's looking grim for Seltorian survivors of consequence. I think the idea of a second unexpected Tribunal Fleet showing up to be the most logical. Having been launched a number of years after the first one. Who are they? They could simply be a back up expedition for the first one. They could be the unmentioned second half of the first Seltorian fleet-who were searching other parts of the galaxy (Milky Way) to make sure there aren't any OTHER Tholian holdouts (Which may have been unknown to OUR Tholians...). Perhaps along the way they've picked up some stuff technologically speaking from people they met in space "Excuse me hast thou knowledge of Tholiansssssssss?"

Basically to keep the Seltorians in the game you're going to have to capture SVC's imagination.

But I'll tell you the single best reason to have the Seltorians in the game-to keep the Tholians relevant. Without the challenge of the Seltorians they face the reality in game terms that by the time X-Tech rolls around the Tholians are SO invincible the Klingons don't even BOTHER any more.

The Seltorians by themselves I don't think can take the Tholians...but if they cut a deal with the Xorkeilians....
I don't see any other alliances for the Seltorians-the Sudra perhaps? Perhaps they could get the Iridani to declare a Quest in the name of Justice to bring the Tholians down.

But the idea of a Seltorian/Xorkaelian mutual understanding make sense. It wouldn't be worth the while to crack the Holdfast on their lonesome. But here come these Nut-Jobs-who have guns= who would love to die to kill Tholians-and once they do will go someplace else to find MORE Tholians to kill!

The Seltorian forces back in the Tholian Home Galaxy (Yes it's still OURS. It was unjustly stolen from us!) may be governed by more conservative elements vis-a-vis the Tholians. Or more pragmatic elements. What IS known is the Seltorian Tribunal represented the most RADICAL and EXTREME of the Seltorians. How MUCH more so is less clear. I rather think the "powers-that-be" back in the Home Galaxy are like "Well the Tholians are gone We're in charge. Life is good. Let's not shake the boat and not fund any more of these Nut Jobs."

Over all though once the Hive Ship Expeditions of the Tribunal got started they could...grow and hive off...constantly. It may even be that the Milky Way Seltorians did not come directly from the Tholian Home Galaxy but rather split off from ANOTHER expdition to ANOTHER galaxy.

So a second expedition COULD show up unexpedectly-NOT from the Home Galaxy but rather hived from another Hive Expedition.

There are a number of ideas-the main point of which is-that if we want the Seltorians in the 2X era there are a number of approaches which can make it plausable and playable. But most importantly if we want the Tholians to have a good challenge we NEED the Seltorians in the 2X era. So it's up to us to convince the Steves.

regards
Stacy

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 07:56 pm: Edit

Maybe other Seltorians are already here. Maybe there's sleeper hives of Selts already amongst us. Maybe they're just looking for a sort of "Grand Caliph" to rally them. Maybe they'll hijack some starships and try to slam them into major Earth edifices to weaken The Great Infidel Federation who serves the whims of the Tholian puppetmasters?

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 08:05 pm: Edit

The idea that the Tribunal has other fleets in the Milky Way is not beyond possibility. The Seltorian government back in the Tholian home galaxy funded a number of expeditions.

I think the liklihood of them messing with the Feds is pretty low. The Tribunal members are rather single minded.
regards
Stacy

By David Slatter (Davidas) on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 04:35 am: Edit

It would make sense for the original hive ship to have sent back some long range scout to the Seltorian galaxy, reporting the presence of entrenched tholians in the Milky way.

If that was done, you would expect a seriously nasty Selt force to turn up at some point, depending on how long it takes for said scout to get back. I think it would be safe to assume that the Selts would have strong expeditions ready to go and eliminate tholians as soon as a scout reported their presence.

By Jim Cummins (Jimcummins) on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 01:11 pm: Edit

Or maybe the original Seltorian expedition, left a small colony on an extragalactic world, as insurance incase the Tholians defeated the hive ship. They sent messages back to the old galaxy of the existence of the Tholians, and the defeat of the hive ship, and are even now building infrastructure and new vessels to defeat the Tholians, and their evil backstabbing conspirators the Klingons. With the ISC a close third on the list of must be destroyed.
With an extragalactic shipyard, an industrial base, and time to breed, the Seltorians, will be a force to be reckoned with.

When the Xorkalians attack from within the Seltorian will decide the time is ripe, and attack from outside the galaxy pulling needed resources away from the Xorkalian front.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 01:35 pm: Edit

Actually, I can now reveal that the Seltorian "revolt" was a deception intended to facilitate the Tholian conquest of the entire universe. The Seltorians have always been loyal Tholian vassels and willing participants in a devilishly intricate and clever, dare I say "illuminated", plot spanning millenia, which will inevtably end with the Tholians bestowing the gift of their benevolent Will upon the Cosmos.

The plot is the brainchild of Richard Mellon Scaife and George Soros...

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 01:37 pm: Edit

The above post is a complete lie and fabrication and was not posted by the real "Alan Trevor". The poster is an imposter working for Karl Rove and Dennis Kucinich.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 02:01 pm: Edit

I thought the election was over.

By Mischa Chad Robuliak (Alias) on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 08:09 pm: Edit

As a Seltorian fan, I'd read this thread back in December, and started considering a few ideas for how the Selts might make a comeback. Thinking about it some more today, I thought of posting those ideas... but I just realized I'm not sure when X2 takes place.

Is there time for the next Seltorian expedition (the one they told the Klingons was on its way, and was going to arrive 200 years later) to arrive in the galaxy? Or is X2 way before that?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 08:18 pm: Edit

X2 starts, according to what information we have, in Y205...way before that invasion would take place.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 09:48 am: Edit

Hi!


Now that C5 is out (and we hap a map of the Cloud to mess with - well, more or less) I picked up a copy of C3 recently and started to thinking:

*What if the next wave of Selts shows up in the Cloud? The Magellanic Powers would be spending Y202 onwards rebuilding their civilisations after Unity, with or wothout som assistance (or competition) from Alpha races - and there are areas of the LMC map such as the Chomak Cluster and the Yrol Nebula (we don't yet know if there are any Chomak or Yrol left to rebuild their civilisations) where the bugs could set up shop without having to bother directly with the Baduvai, Eneen or Maghadim for the time being.

*What if the Selts were lying to the Klingons about the main fleet being 200 years away? What if they end up arriving in Y205, or Y210, or Y215? What if this is the force who sets up shop in the Cloud (or Alpha, or Omega, or some other part of the Galaxy) before having a go at the Alpha Octant?

*In the Star Trek Star Charts book, one can see a bunch of the nearby globular clusters orbiting the Milky Way, and there is no reason not to think that there isn't one far from Alpha (the F&E map stops at the galactic rim, but Omega's map is skewed to include the Irdani cluster - just what would be there if the Alpha map was similarly modified?)


Gary

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 11:39 am: Edit

Gary
The Iridani from the Omega octant live in a globular cluster outside the rim of the galaxy. And I'm with you bring on the Selts.
regards
Stacy

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 11:49 am: Edit

I'm well aware - although technically the Iridani Cluster is not in the Omega Octant proper.

But then, if we have a few clusters just 'off-shore' from Alpha, as it were, they would have as much of a claim on being described as Alpha clusters.

To solve such a problem, the Iridani are no longer an Omegan race! They are now extra-galactic space otters who are always up to some mischief in the Milky Way and the Magellanic Clouds!

I wonder how Selts and Maghadim would get along?


Gary

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 11:55 am: Edit

Gary
It's just that the Iridani were introduced in Omega. And I wish I could answer your question I still need to get C5
regards
Stacy

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 11:57 am: Edit

TO quote an Arcturian:

'Leg being pulled is!'


C5 is quite shiny! (I'd love to see the Magellanics show up in FC, too)


Gary

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:00 pm: Edit

Well it came off-put it back doggonit!
regards
Stacy

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:05 pm: Edit

Only if you use it to go get C5!


Gary

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 01:50 pm: Edit

How about the Fast Cruiser gets sent out near an area where they know another Tribunal is operating. Though it may not quite reach it, the 'other' Tribunal shifts course when they detect what appear to be Seltorian signals over subspace. Or perhaps this Tribunal had an easier time wiping out their Tholians, and had already shifted course once receiving the signals sent from the Alpha Tribunal that a large encalve of Tholians was found.
Though the crew on the ship is long dead, the computer files on the Alpha Quadrant are not. They begin converting over to new technologies, and new ship types (PFs,fighters, t-bombs, etc.) based on designs,theories, and actual vids of Alpha combat. Perhaps with the larger computers on that particual Hive Ship, the leap to X-tech may be possible.
This could even be possible without changing the history. In R15.18 is states that the fast cruiser's operations and missions were unknown and secret. Perhaps this was it.
Just a theory...

--John

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 01:57 pm: Edit

Hmm, I'd sooner see that as happening after the Selts establish themsleves a bit closer to home (the Chomak Cluster could be interesting...) - which would go back to the not-really-200-years-away idea.


Or perhaps CFs from the Selt operation in the Cloud are sent to check out the Milky Way?


Gary

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 02:07 pm: Edit

Gary
As I've commented elsewhere the Tribunal has sent fleets all over the place looking for the Tholians. The Milky Way was not the first or only place they have or are looking. It is perfectly plausable as part of their patrol pattern that another fleet might show up in SMC. There they might be inclined to set up a base and launch periodic strikes against the Holdfast while waiting for the "big" fleet to arrive.

regards
Stacy