How to stop fighters and pfs becoming too powerfull
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How to stop fighters and pfs becoming too powerfull
i am quite new to the game so nobody shout at me please i have come to the come to the conclusion that fighters and pfs are way too over powered for their size a suggest that there should be new class of wpns fighter/pf wpns the idea all wpn systems on fighters/pfs work at only half strength and is based on the pricple of modern day fighters eg can a 6 fighters destroy a an aircraft carrier using only their canons/machine guns. the fighters/ pfs still cost the same because although the guns are weaker the oppent has to spread his/her firepower between multiple targets and as there is no such thing as a "true" carrier ie a carrier which has no offencive abilities of its own therefore it should not be a problem.
Wich fighters were you thinking of ?
I agree that gatling-armed fighters are overbalanced, but outside Hydran service there arent that many of them.
PFs I just flat out dont like.
Try keeping your speed up - especially with medium-speed drones and mid-war fighters, maneuver will take you a long way.
To improve your anti-fighter technique, play a couple of frigate vs fighters games ... start with 6, and work up to 12.
Ian Whitchurch
as rule it would apply to all fighter and pf wpns because it seems silly to have one rule for some and not for another, i have no fear of fighters as i will be using F111's in fighter combats but look at a fighter then a CA and look at the guns do the same with a ww2 fighter and battle ship and think how do you stick a gun which will way in in at least a couple of tonnes and about three or four times the size of a plane its "not logicl captain" and apply that rule SFB how do fit the energy, the capticiters and finaly the emiter of even a ph3 which is still a large gun let a lone a ph-G and heavy wpns. now realise what I am getting at its not just the they are over powered it more the point the guns are bigger than the ships.
The thing about fighters is use of improper tactics WILL GET YOU KILLED QUICKLY. However, against a well equipped and skillful enemy fighters can have a very hard time.
It is easy to assume early in learning this game that fighters are way over powerful. I assure you they are not. I am a 25 year player.
PF require different tactics as well. Their spped is such that you don't gain a maneuver advantage with your ships. I've found that a good way of dealing with them is to play against them like that Gofer arcade game where you have the mallet and you are supposed to hit them on the head as they pop up. You've got to kill 'em hard one at a time. Don't spread your fire out over all of them. Once you kill half of them they are down as a squadron if they haven't taken you down already. Also, the PF players has basically two choices: Keep them together (inwhich they are vulnerable to T-Bombs big time) of spread them out (in which you can try to close a little extra close to a portion of them, kill one and run).
If you are playing a balanced game and they have a Tender with them then you will have them out matched if you ignore the tender as much as possible. PF's are deadliest in Fleets where you have to deal with significant numbers of ships as well.
These tactics are just the point of the sword but I hope they help.
I don't find fighters or PFs to be too strong. Trying to compare them to any historical naval situation is a mistake. Especially if only looking at their weapons (unlike naval analogs, SFB fighters are slower than ships).
The difficulty of dealing with fighters and PFs varies dramatically with era, game conditions and the race you are playing.
Kzin AAS on a floating map can be laughed at by almost anything. A single large freighter jumped by three squadrons won't need to call for help unless it's surrounded or has engine trouble.
Stinger-2M or pilotless F-15M on a fixed map are rather harder to handle. Especially if you're using those Klingon escorts that remove the best fighter killer in the game to add phaser-2's.
Also look at terrain.
Moving at speed 20 through an asteroid feild with 10 points of Specific Shield Reinforcement should let you go places the Fighters just couldn't dream of going and their drones will get torn to shreads.
Another option is ADDs. PFs and ships are immmune to ADDs but fighters are not so the Klingon AD5 really is meant to be on the Hydran boarder.
If you can organise it ( The Romulans are probably the only ones who can ) then get the PFs to run over an NSM layed in secret out the shuttle bay hatch...PFs don't take well to 35 points of damage. Cruisers can just often just walk away with a missing shield and an internal so mine feilds might be a good place to fight. There are also very few fighters capable of surviving the experiance of running over a T-bomb.
Fighters and PFs are bait. On paper they look powerful, but in practice its next to impossible to have them hurt you unless you screw up.
Case in point the Ph-G fighter. If you cripple it at R4 it can do no more than scratch you. Waiting for R2 is just asking for trouble. Especially if it is a Stinger and has Fusions.
PFs are similar. They pack a mean punch, but can be hurt at range. Especially with Booster Packs.
The key is: you dont need to kill them. Just cripple them. Then you can focus on whatever launched, them, and clean them up later. Dont waste phasers and heavy weapons.
This could be my first term paper, though Im sure its been said many times before 
Fighers are worth their BPV, no more, no less (with a few exceptions - ST2M for instance). They are force multipliers, bur far from impossible to defeat. They're just another aspect of the game - like the Plasma Ballet, Klingon Sabre Dance, or Gorn Anchor that takes some time to figure out and even more time to figure out how to beat.
Jason. I guess you play on floating maps On even a large fixed map, ST-2s will do damage to you at range 8-10 and there isn't a whole lot you can do to stop it
Yup, St-2 enmass are the longest ranged fighter around.
12 F-14's with 48 Ph-3 can give you a pretty good punch in the nose at R8 and I've been slapped with good damage from R15. On average that only 8 points of damage but I've seen far better than average scoring nearly double that. At R15 fighters are pretty tough to deal with. Of course there's those drones.
The cripple only tactic is good for temporary dealings. If carriers can recover them then they're good as new in a few turns.
However, it can actually be difficult to only cripple a PF since it's a fine line between when they start taking internal damage and blow up!
(Hmmmm, how to campaign for a PF Mega pack and get rid of those awful WBP that make the engine so vulnerable. 
)
And why would a modern day fighter hamstring itself to using only guns and cannon? (Although I daresay smaller ships such as destroyers and frigates probably would succumb to cannon and heavy machine gun fire.) I'm sure six Intruders or Hornets or F-15E's could put enough missiles on target to sink a cruiser (not to mention the planes that carry ship killer missiles like the Exocet, Tomahawk, Harpoon, etc.)
As the others have been saying, sure they can be hard to deal with, but there are ways to deal with them. You just have to play more. Good luck!
Loren,
That is a neat idea why don't you start a topic.
I hope all the claims that PF booster packs make them vulnerable a sarcasm in action. (Loren clearly is, I am less sure about Jason.)
The fact is that two 3 point engines (with packs) average over 4.32 damage to destroy, and three two point engines (with packs) average over 4.76 damage to destroy. So you are loosing a whole point and a half or so of damage absorption for 6 extra energy.
Spend two of the six extra energy the packs give you on general reinforcement (at the PF 1-1 rate) and you take more damage to kill on average than without packs.
Packs are unambigously good for PF's, there is no downside, if you can live without the energy then turn them on anyway and spend all extra power on shield reinforcement. By the time they hit your engines the first time they would likely be gone already without packs.
Heck you kill the Booster pack boxes first and in the unlikely event that he does not completely cripple or kill you then drop them the next round to absorb more damage than without packs.
I've mentioned this before, but if you're comparing modern naval combat to SFB, then fighters don't become jet fighters--they become Zodiacs or PBRs.
Because I wouldn't want that and I be shot besides!
D.E.L.: Usually when I take a hit on a PF engine with WBP that engine is just about gone since I almost always roll high on the die.
ok thank you one and all its just that they seemed to be over powered for me i think i shall have to trust photons on my own fighters
Where fighters and PFs get a bit difficult to deal with is in the EW department.
Only because of their carriers so it's good to have a scout on your side.
No, coping with 2 ECM & 2 ECCM and two Swing points is hard (IIRC) as the four points of ECCM or 5 points of ECM you'll be wanting on your cruiser is hard to pay for and worse on a frigate.
Not to be a wet balnket, but...
Isn't this really a tatics discussion?
Took me a while to figure out what he was saying. It looks like he wants to revamp the entire concept of fighters and carriers, correct? Not going to happen. They are balanced well enough as they are now, and if decently approached, can be countered.
Remote control fighters went a bit overboard with their unlimited launch capability. It should have been an optional rule.
Remote-control should have been an optional rule, period. Most folks I know that still play treat it as such.
my problem is the inexperience in looking at a cannon. ever hear of a depleted-uranium shell? rake a cannon from the front of a ship of any size to the back. more than half of your shells are going to go straight through, about a quarter are going to rip up fuel and electrical lines, the rest are just going to bounce around and kill crew. with the fire rate that most cannons have you are looking at a fast pass landing between 600-1000 shells depending on how many cannons you have on 1 plane. now instead of raining them all down from above come in and rake just above the water line.
now to be fair the shells i have used in this example are anti-tank/armor shells and wouldn't be used on a air superiority plane because they don't move very fast. but they could be used in mixed squadrons and the bullets are cheaper than missles and are very effective.
now imagine an AC-130, you now have the ability to cover a football field with 6000 rounds per square inch per second, not even mentioning the 105 howitizer in the back.
i would say that while the fighters look powerful they are very accuratly configured.
getting to size of weapons and their mounting on a fighter. a phaser on a ship is ment to be a permenant thing. it is large and has many backup systems. the phaser on a fighter is small and compact without backup systems and made to be completly replaced every 5-10 missions. there is no capacitor system as the phaser draws power directly from the engine.
heavy weapons are a little tricky but the idea is very basic. you load a firing mount onto the fighter and tie its power into the engine, then load a canister-charge into the mount. the engine provides the holding energy for the weapon. again we eliminate the backups and since the weapon charge comes from the ship the fighter only provides power to hold the charge.