This is more a Stellar Shadows Journal sort of thing, but might make a nifty Orion tech (like they need one...)

Batteries that hold N points of power (where N > 2) that cannot be recharged in under a day.

They'd be limited to a discharge rate of 1 per turn like standard batteries, but would store more.

You couldn't use them for reserve warp, which is a downside as well, so you wouldn't replace all the batteries on the ship with these things...but a mixed hybrid could be done.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 01:37 pm: Edit

So I trade my good old one point rechargeable battery that can be used for reserve warp for a two point, one shot battery that can't even discharge all its power at once? Why would I do this?

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 03:00 pm: Edit

Mike, N is greater than 2, so it's a minimum of 3 points in -- and N can be set by playtesting.

As a general rule with existing batteries, rechargeable versus non rechargable would put N at around 6...but it would have to be a minimum of 3 to make it worth putting on in the first place.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 08:29 pm: Edit

I think you'ld need a strong steady supply of power for quite a while to offset the fact that BTTYs can't be recharged very quickly.

It would be better to make them last for a very long time ( say hold 8 points of power but probably 10 ) but require two things 1) require all BTTYs to be of this kind ( this is for simplicity of play because if you don't you will get players using the BTTYs for 8 turns straight and then forgeting which BTTY was a rechargable and which one wasn't and recharging the non rechargable one ) and 2) require that the vessels have some kind of replacement cost between scenarios in order to rechage them ( This would probably be an extention of D9.4 and specifically D9.47 that without resupply the vessel can not gain new BTTYs and have an EPV price tag for the replacements just like T-bombs and Drones do)...that is to say they are replacable BTTYs rather than rechargable.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 10:13 pm: Edit

MJC, right now I'd probably set "N" at 6.

The batteries can be recharged by ships power -- they're just voltage regulated; they can't be recharged in anything under days. Thus, no econ cost.

Just an opportunity to try something different...

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 10:19 pm: Edit

Use an Energizer to power the phasers?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 11:12 pm: Edit

Yeah...N6 and recharge overnight is workable, but why if you are going to a different why not be really different and have BTTYs that need to be replaced rather than recharged overnight.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Is this sort of a type of power / fuel cell like the space shuttle uses?

Converts hydrogen into electricity and (IIRC) oxygen?

This could change a number of things in the game, will have to think about all the ramificatins involved....hmmm

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 12:56 am: Edit

MJC - don't want to be too radical, want this to be a neat bit of nifty tech that fits the extant game.

Jeff: More like Nickel Metal Hydride batteries.

By David Kass (Dkass) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 02:05 pm: Edit

At N = 6, isn't this going to be the same thing as an APR in most battles? (I recall seeing somewhere that most battles last 5[?] turns or less).

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 02:14 pm: Edit

How about a battery that holds 3 but is recharged at 2:1. "Spend 2 power this turn to have 1 to spend next turn." You could even remove the 1-per-turn limit then.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 02:57 pm: Edit

I would only trade them out if I could still use them for reserve warp. That, to me, is the greatest limitation on these things. If I can't have full reserve power when I need it, having super batteries with more power isn't helping. That's just me. Your mileage may vary.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 03:06 pm: Edit

Who needs reserve warp when you have the power to overload everything, use max EW, and go speed 30?

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 04:54 pm: Edit

David: You'd still get to spend the battery power during the turn, rather than in EA, which makes this somwahat more useful than an APR.

Most battles I've played have run out at about 4-8 turns.

Mike: Agreed that the lack of reserve warp is challenging. See the note to David K up above...and N can always be varied a bit. 6 is based off of current battery performances versus rechargables.

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 04:54 pm: Edit

I really like the concept. I suspect N=3 is probably closer to the desired number (N=6 is pretty high - it'll be shot off or the battle ended in that time).

I doubt this would work for current races, but may be usable for some new race.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 05:10 pm: Edit

You guys realize that the Alunda have something similar in the Omega Sector have this already with their Adrenal Batteries (A-Btty).

Right?

3 Power stored, 1 power out from each box each turn, 1 power recharges itself each turn from each block (IIRC).

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 05:41 pm: Edit

Scott - now that you remind me, yeah. OK. I thought I'd seen it somewhere before.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 06:52 pm: Edit

To a certain degree the N=6 or 10 thing isn't so much of problem because the BTTYs will die after not too much damage and it's not like you can shunt it all into Specific Reinforcment if you take damage.

In a lot of ways you'ld think the tactic to fight this would be to run out the BTTYs and then fight but actually hitting hard and fast might be the best option.

By Kerry Drake (Kedrake) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 07:13 pm: Edit

The N+ batteries should explode if hit on the DAC with more than 1 point of power in them....

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 07:49 pm: Edit

Nah...leak out toxic chemicals that kill crew units...much more fun!!!

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 11:45 pm: Edit

MJC:

I think that is covered under the auto reject rules. You'll have to come up with a different option.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 06:08 pm: Edit

No, weapons that only kill C.U.s is on the list but a side effect of destroyed SSD boxes killing C.U.s would be a different matter...IIRC.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Then that option is even more silly than your original comment, what kind of star ship engineer/ship designer would willingly put a system intended to kill the crew units manning the vessel?

I think your assumption that such a ship designer would be willing to put a dangerous intentionally leathal system on board his own races starships to be unrealistic.

That is on a par with the Ford Motor Executives that calculated that spending $2 million dollars USD to replace flint screws used to mount gas tanks in Pinto automobiles was more than than they were likely to have to pay out in wrongful death litigation. (note that they, were wrong.)

By David Slatter (Davidas) on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 07:52 am: Edit

Even N=3 is very useful

Let's start with maulers..... Give them about 20 of these and 15 of the normal batteries. That gives them a starting strike of 75 battery power, and while their subsequent strikes are much weaker, 15 power is about what they can put back into the batteries over a turn or two. All they do is shoot more often after the first shot, their total power spent on the weapon could be similar.

And if anyone shoots at the mauler, it can absorb an awful lot of incoming fire by shield reinforcement (NB maulers will be putting up high ECM and EM until they are in firing position), opening up the way for the rest of the fleet.

oops - looks like you can only use these in EA, but can't you allocate energy to the mauler weapon/reinforcent anyway? You must be able to do the first, otherwise maulers would not be able to trash their engines.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 08:38 am: Edit

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Then that option is even more silly than your original comment, what kind of star ship engineer/ship designer would willingly put a system intended to kill the crew units manning the vessel?

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That is on a par with the Ford Motor Executives that calculated that spending $2 million dollars USD to replace flint screws used to mount gas tanks in Pinto automobiles was more than than they were likely to have to pay out in wrongful death litigation. (note that they, were wrong.)

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