WITH ALL THE TALK ABOUT HOW TO HELP THE GORN BECOME A BETTER SHIP IN TOURNAMENT PLAY, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT A NEW SYSTEM STRICTLY FOR THE GORN RACE. IT IS CALLED THE PDD OR PSEUDO DOWNLOADING DIVICE. IT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO DOWNLOAD THE 30PT PSEUDO TORPEDO IN YOUR S LAUNCHERS TO A 20 POINT VERSION TO GIVE YOUR OPPONENT SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT ON YOUR SECOND TURN OF ARMING(FAST LOAD TURN. I THINK THAT THIS WOULD BE A GOOD RULE BECAUSE IT IS NOT TOO POWERFUL A SYSTEM, AND IT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT THE GORN RACE COULD CALL ITS OWN, BEING THAT MOST OTHER RACES HAVE NICE SYSTEMS ALL TO THEMSELVES.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 10:22 pm: Edit

The Gorns have a gorn-only weapon, the plasma carronade.

It woud also be better if you didn't post in all-caps.

In most corners of the internet, it's the equivalent of shouting at the reader.

By Troy J. Latta (Saaur) on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 10:34 pm: Edit

True, but the carronade isn't usable in tourney play, which is what Brook was specifically trying to address.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 07:58 am: Edit

And it isn't really gorn only, either. Don't all plasma users get it after a time?

By Martin Read (Amethyst_Cat) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 08:20 am: Edit

The Romulans never get the carronade; it's not like they need it, after all.

By William Curtis Soder (Ghyuka) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 04:00 pm: Edit

The Feds, Orions and Wyn eventually get to use the Gorn Carronade (much to my displeasure). I've heard it constantly stated on here in many places that it is a Gorn only weapon but you know how that is. I gotta admit that the Romulans really don't need it and the ISC could become even more overbearing with that option. Still, think about an Orion with all F-torps pounding the bajezus outta ya every turn for little energy expendature once he has already nailed you with all of those F-torps. Ewwww.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 04:09 pm: Edit

IIRC, neither the Roms nor the ISC ever get the carronade.

I reluctantly acknowledge the inevitability of Orion carronades.

I'm annoyed at seeing the Feds get it, but they're Gorn allies...

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 04:58 pm: Edit

I wish that it was a gorn only weapon myself. But its not. I'm wondering why the other races didn't get it since the Orions have it. Name an Orion who wouldn't see the chance for profit from the Romulans or ISC in exchange for that piece of tech. But I would rather it be a Gorn only weapon that no other race can use. Even Gorn Allies!!!!

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Same reason the Kzintis didn't get standard UIMs until X-tech.

By Tim Longacre (Timl) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 05:25 pm: Edit

About the carronade, given the number of Fed and WYN ships in service that are likely to have PL-Fs, I can live with the fact that they get it. In fact, the write-up follows suite with the technology exchange rules in (U7.125), as pirates can be viewed as an "enemy race" to just about anyone. I view the situation pretty much the same as the Feds having drones on their ships, and P-Gs on their fighters.
As far as pirates and Wyn having it and selling it, (U7.12) in general kind of puts a halt on that. Granted that player-ran Orions MIGHT sell the technology, but if they do they're out a weapon on that ship now until they replace it, and in a player generated campaign, there's no guarantee that they can even capture one intact to begin with to have to sell.
As for the intitial proposal on this thread, wouldn't it be better for the Gorn TC to have a PPT for its F-Torps that it can transfer to the S-torps tubes?

By William Curtis Soder (Ghyuka) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 05:45 pm: Edit

I guess the question there is wether the Gorn with PPTs for his S-torps and PPTs for his F-torps is too powerful (otherwise they'd all have them anyway).
My problem with this suggestion is that if it is approved, it just opens pandora's box to campaign for it to be used outside the tournament. I guess I just don't like making special rules for just the tournament or using the tournament as a testbed for new rules to be added to the game.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 06:27 pm: Edit

The tournament is the tournament.

It should not be used for rules changes as that voilates the whole idea of equal, balanced opponents.

That's what playtest is for.

Is the Gorn TC unbalanced?

Then don't fix it.

By Seth Iniguez (Sutehk) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Maybe the cannonade is like the cloaking device, the Orions capture some, but can't produce the technology, so they can't really "sell" technology to the ISC or Romulans.

By Tim Longacre (Timl) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 07:39 pm: Edit

John, I don't know if the Gorn TC is unbalanced or not, but, having flown it a lot in the past, IMO I think it does lack something. A good question to ask about balance might be, "When was the last time a Gorn TC won the Origins RAT?", and then determine why if it has been a significant amount of time.

Seth, that's how I read it. As I pointed out, (U7.12) prohibits the sale of tech to, or purchase of tech from pirates.
Besides, as a pirate, would you really sell/give something away that gave you an edge?

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 07:48 pm: Edit

It really depends on if I want some PPD's or more cloaking devices?

By Tim Longacre (Timl) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 08:14 pm: Edit

As a pirate, you could, of course, try to steal them
Granted, the cloaks might be hard to come by, especially after the Romulans get warp technology, but those fools in the ISC put PPDs on ground bases, which in and of themselves are actually fairly easy to capture.

By Brook J. Villa (Brookie) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 08:34 pm: Edit

well, I do appreciate the responses to my initial post. The rule that I suggested would be to improve the gorn tournament ship. I do believe that having pseudos for all the torps would be too powerful. So you would have either a 30pt or a 20pt pseudo that would be launched from the S launcher. The strength of the torp would be determined at launch. My goal is to make the gorn ship better for tounament play, because i think it needs an upgrade to compete with the other more popular tourney ships(i.e. hydrans, sharks, orions, kzinti, etc).

By Les LeBlanc (Lessss) on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 08:53 pm: Edit

Quite frankly I don't think 4 pseudos for the Gorn Tc would be unbalancing.

Gorn has 3 flavours in tourney
Bolt like a Fed
Ballet like a Rom
Or go for the Anchor
If he tries piecmeil launch he runs outta plasma and gets cornered and dies.

By Mark Russman (Cannich) on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 09:45 am: Edit

Why should the Gorns give the Feds the Carronade?
The Feds didnt give them Gats...

One reason (*that I heard) that the Gorn hasn't won the Hat in a while is that there is a large amount of plasma options (* ie "..the gorn is boring...", so people can choose from them instead.
Just what I heard....over and over.

By Marcus J. Giegerich (Marcusg) on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Tim said

"John, I don't know if the Gorn TC is unbalanced or not, but, having flown it a lot in the past, IMO I think it does lack something. A good question to ask about balance might be, "When was the last time a Gorn TC won the Origins RAT?", and then determine why if it has been a significant amount of time."

I don't think that's a decent enough criteria to base it upon. Many players consider the Hydran to be a strong ship and it has never won Origins.

;-)

By Tim Longacre (Timl) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 01:06 pm: Edit

Mark, you have, perhaps, stated what my point was more correctly than I did (* ie "..the gorn is boring...", so people can choose from them instead.). With other races that have more... options (for lack of a better term) of how they operate, the Gorn, as I stated before, seems to be lacking something, IMO.
Of course, its the said lack of options makes the tactics used by the Gorn TC captains predictable (as pointed out be Les, bolt , ballet, or anchor). I guess the thing that makes it boring is that everyone who does tounry play knows the routins, and how to deal with it.

By Tim Longacre (Timl) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Marcus, When was the last time the Gorn won any RAT? I admit I generally don't pay too much attention to that area of SFB anymore.
About the Hydran being a strong ship, I would agree, if I knew how it flew anymore. The last time I flew it was well before the added 360^o P-1 was added, so I have no experience in the new ship.
BTW, what was the reason why they improved it?