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	Archive through February 08, 2005	25		02/08 09:46am

As I Understand It ....

I *think* all(!) a gravity wave does is stretch and compress the very fabric of space-time. As soon as it has gone by, the VFoS-T is back to its normal status.

I don't think the proposal needs to consider this.

By Nikolaus Athas (Nycathis) on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Take it one step further - make the gravity mine a function of a new unique race's main weapon ie a mine thrower or gravitic catapult.

Include the black hole component and then have a serious think about what all the interactions should be.

I like the idea - its kind of like a webcaster only different.

You throw the mine a certain distance and your oponent has to react by altering their manuvering.

Its a thought at least anyway.

By Ken Humpherys (Pmthecat) on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 06:20 pm: Edit

I think that we should consider the gravity wave as a compression wave. I doesn't actually move you (other than to turn you paralell to the wave) but does alot of damage in passing.

Ken

By William Curtis Soder (Ghyuka) on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 06:46 pm: Edit

Jeff:
This idea just seems to lead to madness. This will take us away from the 'using existing rules' concept you started with. This also will open pandora's box because you could then technobable whatever effect you choose and that isn't going to lead anywhere closer to approval. I had a hard time swallowing the whole 'small man-made object creating an effect 1/3rd less that a force of nature' and this just seems to compound on it. As I see it, if you are going to add another effect to the mine, you are going to have to make a sacrifice somewhere else (perhaps detonation str). Either way, this additional idea will lead to a half a page of new rules which will then spawn about 1 or 2 pages of rules to cover all posible interactions and then about 2 to 4 years of a balacing act to make it work within the current rules system. Just seems to make it harder for publication.


Nicolaus:
Or how about we don't. Although the concept may be nice, the Steve's have filing cabinets overflowing with 'new races' and that just puts this proposals chance to appoval next to nil.

By Nikolaus Athas (Nycathis) on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 06:58 pm: Edit

William:

HAH! whats the bet you are seeing the Xorkian main weapon in its infancy :p

By William Curtis Soder (Ghyuka) on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Perhaps, but I have a distinct feeling that if it turns out to be, Steve has had this weapon in mind for quite a long time.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 09:16 pm: Edit

John Kasper:
Nicely phrased!(I particularly liked the "VFoS-T" part!)

You sold me, I will not reflect it as part of the restated proposal ... except maybe in the "color" commentary ... (Very Fabric of Space-Time ... nice detail!)

Nikolaus Athas:
I think your idea is different enough to be a separate proposal... if you think its worth making it into a variant web caster/PPD type thing, then go for it. (Check out WCS' comments, I think he raises several points that you would need to address to make it a main weapon for a new race...)

Ken Humpherys:

I'm already sold, I didnt really want to include it, but felt that we could address the issue. (VFoS-T, gee I do enjoy that!!! )

CWS:

Enough! Mercy! I withdraw the suggestion!

(although....if the Xorkians use lots of small ships and/or attrition units a gravity mine would be a material aid to the alpha quadrants races defenses!)

By Troy J. Latta (Saaur) on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 10:56 pm: Edit

Nycathis: There's a similar weapon in "Treasure Planet: Battle at Procyon." Don't remember the name off the top of my head, but it's a bitch to fly near because of the pull. It also voids the "cloak" effect of the ironclad submarine.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 01:42 pm: Edit

Restated Proposal:

Gravity Mines. Rule M___.0
By Jeff Wile

Gravity Mines are indistinguishable form normal explosive mines unitl Detonation occurs. Instead of an explosion, Gravity mines generate a Gravity Wave (see rule P9.0) of either 35 points of Force level (for a large mine) or 10 points of Force Level) for a small mine.

Normal Gravity Waves degenerate at a degradation Rate (DR) of 10% per impulse. Gravity Mines, creating an "artificial" gravity wave have a DR of 50%.
type: Strength at range: 0, 01, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.
35 FL .........................35, 18, 9, 5, 3, 2, 1, 0.
10 FL .........................10, 5, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0.

Gravity Mines may be purchased for use in mine packages only. cost is 10 times that of normal explosive mines.

There are no Transporter GRavity mines.

Earliest YIS is 205. Wide spread use of Gravity mines years later.

Mines, planets and webs are unaffected by Gravity waves. (see rule P9.0)

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 06:28 pm: Edit

Looking back at this proposal, I am struck by the possible anti attrition unit effectiveness of this type of mine.

Consider:

a Base (call it a BATS with 12 F-18's) in 2215, surrounded by a standard mine field (average distance from base between 15 and 22 hexes).

Assume the Fed 18's stay near the BATS to facilitate reloading drons, and the BATS, fighters and the use of scatter packs to maintain drone fire rate... given the YIS of the gravity mines, all drones could be expected to be "fast".

The opposing force would need to penetrate the mine field in order to close the distance to the targets (to over come the ECM of the base & the fighters, as well as the fighters small target modifier.

If the opposing force uses ships to cledar the mine field, a constant barrage of drones, photons (from the base) and phaser 4's will cause problems (not to mention the possible mine damage).

if the Opposing force tried to force the mine field with fighters and attrition units, and their own drones, they would have to contend with the 4 hex radius of the small mines gravity waves, and the 6 hex range of the large gravity mine force levels gravity wave.

The large mine over a 6 impulse period exerts a gravity wave "foot print" over a globe of hexes 13 hexes in diameter causing gravity force damage of 1 to 35 (depending how close to the detonation hex the targets are/were).

such an event could kill or damage many PF's Fighters, shuttles or ships with in the range of the device.

In another aspect, several gravity mines could defeat a ballistic drone wave (asuming the gravity mines accepted the drones as a valid target) thus making the Drone Bombardment somewhat less effective.

The best defense for the attrition units is to not be in the mine field when the gravity mines are detonated.

Too bad the Andromedans dont use fighters or PF's

By Ken Humpherys (Pmthecat) on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:02 pm: Edit

Actually Andros have a MWP which is half fighter and half PF.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 03:25 pm: Edit

This is a topic under consideration for SFB module Extreme Measures.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 09:32 pm: Edit

Rule (M___.0) Gravity Mines (revised)
proposed by Jeff Wile

This is a new type of mine (available in two sizes, Large Gravity Mine, or Small Gravity Mine). In almost all respects, Gravity mines are indistiguishable from Explosive Mines save that of detonation. instead of an explosive detonation (of either 35 point or 10 point capacity) a gravity mine generates a spherical gravity wave of either 35 point force level (see rule (P9.42)) or 10 point Force level.

Gravity Mines must comply with all rules pertaining to explosive mines(including detection range (M2.4) and triggering (M2.40).

When detonated, a Gravity mine generates a Spherical Gravity Wave that expands out from the mines location hex at the speed of 1 hex per impulse. The Spherical Gravity wave behaves exactly like that of rule (9.0) Gravity Waves except that the artifically created Gravity Waves are not as powerful as that generated by a Black Hole.

To resolve the effects of Gravity Waves, large mines start by using the Chart printed in rule (P9.42) effects all objects (except those that are immune to the effects of Gravity waves, see rule (P9.3) Restrictions.

Normal Gravity Waves degenerate at a degradation Rate (DR) of 10% per impulse. Gravity Mines, creating an "artificial" gravity wave have a DR of 50%.

type: Strength at range: 0	01	2	3	4	5	6	7.
35 FL .........................35	18	9	5	3	2	1	0.
10 FL .........................10	5	3	2	1	0	0	0.

1. Gravity Mines may only be deployed in mine fields as part of a purchased mine package. (Gravity mines are ten times the cost of a explosive mine (typically 10 for a small Gravity Mine, 30 for a large gravity mine, compared to 1 and 3 for normal explosive mines.)
2. Gravity mines may never be deployed during a scenario. (in theory, a gravity Mine could be part of the cargo of a ship in the scenario, but in all respects (size cargo points, etc) gravity mines are indistinguishable from normal explosive mines.

Color commentary:

Gravity mines were only possible due to Operation Unity. Examination of the Andromedan Bases, ships and equipment allowed new insights into the nature of the Universe. The earliest prototype Gravity mines appeared in year 205. Limited production of gravity mines could have started at that point, but widespread use of Gravity Mines in minefields and defenses of bases did not occur until years later.

many attempts to create a transporter gravity bomb were undertaken, but results were mixed. IF players wish to use Transporter Gravity bombs, the effectiveness is directly related to crew quality. Poor Quality crews can Never successfully deploy a gravity TB. Normal quality crews, succeed only 1 in 6 times.