Archive through August 21, 2006
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Company-Conventions-Stores-Ideas: New Product Lines Development:
GENERAL PROJECTS:
New Product Suggestion Topic:
Archive through August 21, 2006
Stuart: Just my personal copy, and I have no interest in selling any of them.
Speaking of the "Battlewagon", why has that class of ship never been introduced into the SFB ship classes?
Battlewagon wasnt a class -- just a pet name for Dreadnoughts/BBs --
Battlewagon is slang for battleship, which was originally "line of battle ship" or "ship of the line of battle" or "ship of the line" or "liner".
Dreadnought meant a type of battleship with all big guns (previous battleships had slow firing 12 inches guns and fast firing ten or nine inch guns). Well, properly, it should be "all big guns, internal compartmentalization, improved engines, and all guns able to fire all directions" but that leaves a lot of "semi" dreadnoughts like, say, HMS dreadnought.
Franz Joseph used "dreadnought" as the ship 50% bigger than a cruiser. In wet navy terms, battleships were 3-5 times as big as cruisers but let's not quibble.
When we did the B10 we used the term battleship (incorrectly, according to wet navy usage) as something 33% bigger than a dreadnought.
So, both dreadnoughts and battleships (the proper terms of battlewagons) have been in SFB for decades.
Any chance of ADB putting BATTLEWAGONS (or any of the other games) back into print?
Garth L. Getgen
Garth... my, my...
You know ADB has their hands full just trying to get all the SFU stuff into print and on the cart.
A better question might be, will ADB ever be licensing someone to put BATTLEWAGONS back into print?
Probably depends on if someone capable expressed interest, and if they thought people would buy it. I'm sure ADB wouldn't be opposed to making a little more money, as long as they could be sure it would make money.
Mark: thanks for the offer, but I have 2 copies of Battlewagon, plus Nexus magazine updates.
SVC: I was more interested in War of the Worlds, Operation Pegasus, and Prochorovka (I need a new map).
I still say that if Battlewagon was reprinted AND included a conversion system for miniature use that would sell. Lord knows that the combat system is easier than SEAKREIG or Command at Sea.
If you are looking forsome good minature rules for WWII, there is an out of print game, which you can still find used called Clear for Action. Simple, fairly accurate and fun to play. I know the designer if anyone is interested, note this is not a commercial, just a statement of info. I think I have a copy of almost every naval game ever designed. If you want a complicated game try one called Battle Stations, by Alan Zimm. It grew into a computer game he also published called Action Stations.
Garth: We could put any of those back in print, but would they sell? I don't know. Worth thinking about, though.
I would probably buy McPherson's Ridge. Always looking for good ACW games.
SVC:
Concerning Battle wagons/pocket games re-introduction...
would you consider...
1. mail order/prepurchase option? (say that you had to have 100 confirmed orders for a product before printing it...possibly without counters?!? include a map and 2-3 "tokens" to represent ships so as to avoid the cost of printing counters for a product that might not sell.)
2. develop 3 or 4 products and include them in the 100 pre-order requirement... that way players who order battle wagon could order 2 or 3 such products at the same time...your actual number of customer orders would stay the same ... but the total value of each order would go up for each additional game purchased.
3. possible other product lines for Mail Order only...
A. "Star Fleet Marines" pretest pocket game... IIRC you have several combat systems to choose from... printing out the relevant rules and possibly "tie in" to a minitures sale for figures might be a popular seller. (the rules sections I'm referring to include the boarding combat rules from SFB, the advanced rules, in SFB's and or a primer combat set from GURPS PD (might have to work that out with SJG's... but you have cut deals before with him before ...and this might result in more sales for both companies.)
B. You have said several times that you wanted to publish a Tank Combat" game for WW2 (Russian vs German IIRC?!?) this might be a opportunity to get it published.
C. Any number of SFB's or F&E "Mini modules".
(call it play testers packs... only available to the general public... you could still distribute them to regular (and experienced) play testors for free... but the same sets could be priced and sold at the SFB store. (dated product...once "sold out" will not be restocked...the ships and materials playtested would be available in future products... another source of revenue and a way to standardize distribution of the playtest materials.
D. Concerning the Battle Wagon game... contact any of a number of naval minatures producers to find out if "a deal" could be made...say include a coupon for $X dollars off any order for minatures... (what you would get for such a "deal would have to be negotiated...) but you could start selling other game companies ship minatures for use with your rules sets... not as financially rewarding as making/selling your own line of ship models... but then you wouldnt have the head aches attached with it, either.
1. I would consider it, BUT, I don't know it would sell without counters, and with counters we'd need 500 orders, and no way you'd get that with the SFB crowd, I doubt you'd get 100. If this is a product you personally want (assuming this, for all I know you don't really want it and you're just suggesting what you think is a workable project) we could make a deal on counters. Now, you could do it as a miniatures rule book but since Bwgn is hex-based I don't know that you'd sell many of them to minis people, who generally hate hexes. One possibility that is intriguing is you could use the FedCom system to print laminated "ship cards" but they'd almost have to be generic (or maybe some generics and all the ships from the Bismarck episode?).
2. I think this would result in fewer pre-orders of each game, and it's the orders per game not the total orders that makes production feasible.
3. Sure, but without counters.... been there, answered that.
A. I'm lost here. What star fleet marines game are you talking about? The only one I know (Star Fleet Assault) is ground combat, and the game system already exists, and if it would sell I'd have printed it already.
B. No, what I've said is that I wish WW2 tank games sold as well as star trek because I'd rather be designing such games. This is NOT a viable way to get those games published.
C. I am kind of lost on what these "mini modules" would include.
D. I'm sure if we did the game we could sell ads to minis companies or something.
SVC:
1. Fed Commander option sounds like it might be worth exploring... all those hobby stores that have been selling FC, would be a natural follow up customer.
And yes, I would buy it. (Heck I had and wore out 2 different AH:Jutland games over the years...and made up the extra counters that were published in various "AH:General" magazines.
I don't think I'm the only one that enjoys those kind of games.
2. OK.
3. ditto
3.A. Star Fleet Assualt is what I was thinking of...although I was sure It had had different working titles over the years since the Nexus Magazines came out.
3.B. pity. I've known a lot of people who have played and enjoyed various tank games (Panzer Leader, Panzer Blitz, France 1940, Arab Israeli Wars (topical, hey?!?) 
... etc.)
3.C. I dunno what they would include... was trying to "think outside of the box"... If the original battle wagon included rules, counters and a map inside of a plastic bag/pocket container... maybe a mini module could be a map (8 1/2 x 11 plain paper?!?) 1 to 3 pages of rules or scenario special rules to detail a solitaire battle or a operational challenge for a starship puzzle/maze or monster encounter...maybe enve a Face to face duel with special conditions.
Heck, If you have counter sheets from "out of print" modules, that for whatever reason cant be used for current orders... recycle what counters you have into these "one shot" thingees.
I have no way to anticipate what your price point will be... but it might be a nice spiff for the mail order crowd.
4. OK
1. I don't think fed commander players/stores are a natural tie in for a WW1/2 battleship game.
3A. Nah, the ground combat game has always been Star Fleet Assault.
3B. I'm one of them. but they don't sell.
3C. Still no clue what this would be. Aflac?
1. OK
3A. OK
3B. OK, I surrender! Mercy!
3C.
Still "brain storming" on this... what if you made a newsletter kind of thing available through the STAR FLEET BATTLES store?
Say each month, or quarter, any purchase of $25+ or more of other products on the online store would allow a customer to "purchase" such a "mini Module" for a modest fee ($5? $10?) a mini module...heck, if its a SFB thing, just assume that the customer already has the counters (have a warning that the rules set requires prior purchase of Basic Set, Advanced Missions etc.)
The module could be in a standard business envelope (with ADB return address logo?!?) and 1 to 3 pages of rules, scenario, maybe a news letter thing with the latest press release, sales items, forthcoming products...could be anything...
at $5 or $10.00 you could decide what "perks" could be affordably included... but if the customers perceived that it was of fair value... you would have repeat customers .
If you have 100 regular customers paying $5 each month or quarter, it might well be a good revenue stream for ADB.
PS
No need to "stock" the module... just send the modules during the declared period...once its over the next module will be the one sold... no need to inventory it.
Er..."congratulations! as a reward for giving us money, we are going to give you this unique opportunity to give us even MORE money!"
SVC:
New Question...
What are you planning for all of the "brothers of the Anarchist" articles that have been printed in the Cap Logs?
I don't have a completed SFB's suggestion to offer... but it would seem to me that those articles could be the basis for a F&E or SFB module of some sort... (possibly a Stellar Shaddows Journal theme?!?)
I'm not sure how well it would sell (you would be better able to judge that, I think)... but you have accumulated dozens (hundreds?!?) of man hours of yours and Steve Petricks time on those pages...
The thing is, in most cases I'd guess that the F&E factors on any given Anarchist/conversion would be the same from race to race (excepting the Romulans and Orions with Cloaks and the larger Plasma Torpedos) (a Fed CA conversion in Klingon service will still be a '8' COMPOT unit, for example).
Just thinking that such a Product might have "tie in" potential for both SFB's and F&E.
I'd guess the only real down side would be having to tell SPP that he'd have to do "Crawford Boxes" on each of the Anarchist Brothers SSD sheets.
I don't have plans to do anything with them.
To do an SFB module would mean doing more work to create the additional SSDs. Not a mountain of work, but quite a bit. I have my doubts it would sell.
To do an F&E module would mean doing counters and that's very expensive and very risky.
It was just a passing thought...the Brothers of the Anarchist things must be accumulating a good number of pages by now... I havent gone back and counted, but it seems like they average 2+ pages per issue.
Many of the other features of the Captains Logs are eventually published as either SFB or F&E products... it just seems to me that the time you have invested in that area could be reused in some way...
Any way, thank you for the answer.
Jeff Wile
I was just looking at CL28/SSJ2 and read the top paragraph for the Paravian shipyard and it hit me; On the next counter run (1/2") do the SSJ ships a special counter pack. Could include something else to augment regular SFB.
Note that this would include two full races of counters.
We did that once and sold like 24 of a print run of 1000.
Are there any left?
Anyway,
maybe someday you could do a PDF and we can print our own?
976.
7102-C Special Countersheet #1
Gotch' ya.
For $2.00 I'm surprised it didn't get picked up in every order. I really wasn't aware of it so this might be why it didn't sell well. It probably was overshaddowed by some other great product and slipped between the cracks.
I know I'll be picking one up.
I'd like to have Paravian counters, and counters for the Archeo-Tholian BB's. Maybe someday they can fit in somewhere.