Archive through November 18, 2011
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Company-Conventions-Stores-Ideas: Pirates of the Web:
Archive through November 18, 2011
For those of you who think piracy is not a serious issue and that we're being jerks to comlain about it, the following is a response from ONE pirate site listing the illegal SFB products removed because our demand. All of these files were uploaded last Thursday, and all were detected and reported to us on Friday, we sent in the demand for remove Friday, had to argue with them on Monday, and they finally removed them Monday night. During the 4 days the files were uploaded, there were something more than 300 files downloaded, every one of them costing the company something like an average $10 in that one single lost sale, not to mention the cost resulting from those people passing along or re-uploading copies. So do not tell me that piracy is not a problem. This particular batch has nothing to do with SFBOL, by the way, it was just the most interesting list of deleted files in Joel's email this morning. Most of these are things people scaned by themselves, and there are a lot more willing to pass along a PDF they bought than are willing to do the huge amount of work to scan and compile this stuff.
Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5623_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captains Module Y1 - The Early Years.pdf_-_Errata.pdf (1/1)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5617_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captain's_Module_R6_-_Fast Warships.pdf (1/74)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5616_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captain's_Module_C4_-_Fleet_Training_Centers_2.pdf (1/34)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5610_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captain's_Module_R5_-_Battleships.pdf (1/61)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5609_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captain's_Module_R4_-_Romulan, Gorn, Tholian, ISC.pdf (1/46)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5608_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captain's_Module_R3_-_Klingon, Hydran, Lyran, WYN.pdf (1/45)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5607_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captain's_Module_R2_-_ Federation, Kzinti, Andro, Orion.pdf (1/40)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5606_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captain's_Module_R1_-_Bases_and_Auxilliaries_2.pdf (1/34)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5606_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captain's_Module_R1_-_Bases_and_Auxilliaries_-_Counters.pdf (1/1)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5606_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captain's_Module_R1_-_Bases_and_Auxilliaries.pdf (1/121)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5752_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captain's_Module_G1_-_Master_Annex_File_1996.pdf (1/25)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5715_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_The_Campaign_Designer's_Handbook.pdf (1/51)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5623_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captains Module Y1 - The Early Years.pdf (1/129)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5611_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Edition_-_Captain's_Module_T_-_Tournament_Book.pdf (1/16)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5616_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captains Module C4 - Fleet training centers.pdf (1/29)'
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Removing 'Star Fleet Battles - SFB_5612b_-_Starfleet_Battles_-_Captain's_Module_X1_-_The_X-Ships_-_Errata.pdf (1/1)'
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==
~$3000.00 lost in sales isn't chump change. Don't know how you're going to stop this kind of piracy.
We jump on it when we see it, and we make every effort to see it. (The worst re-offending websites are checked every day and often re-upload the removed documents in 24 hours until we reach the poit of paying the lawyer to officially threaten them, when they stop.)
This case is particularly aggregious and cost us far more than most. (We find about five pirates a week but most have only one or two files. A case this bad is about once a month, but "the list" was so shocking I decided to share. There are two or three really bad people out there who have it in for us and are constantly uploading their files. Eventually, we'll hunt down these individuals and sue them, but you cannot imagine what that costs, start at ten grand and look upwards, with recovery judgements hard to collect.)
"There are two or three really bad people out there who have it in for us and are constantly uploading their files."
Ah, the price of keeping the Star Fleet Universe clean of lame submissions for the rest of us... at least in part, I'm guessing.
Yes, the people who "hate Steve Cole" hate me because I turned down their very reasonable request to allow them to do anything they wanted.
Piracy is an enormous problem, particularly because the pirates are often elusive and judgement proof (as SVC pointed out).
Personally, I think the number one thing we can do to help, aside from reporting pirates, is never to condone piracy in anyone we see doing it or suggesting it. I remember being in college, and it was no big deal among many folks I saw to pirate songs and software left and right - and it was assumed by everyone in the circle of friends and acquaintences that this was OK. I'm ashamed to say I didn't stand up and say that was wrong. If more people did, maybe we could reduce piracy simply by making it socially unacceptable.
Piracy kind of reminds me of asymmetrical warfare. It takes only a few guys with some assualt weapons, RPGs, and IEDs to force the U.S. to spend billions upon billions of dollars in defense. 
I would imagine that it wouldn't be that difficult to hire some company which has the technical skills to track down said uploaders. Now as to the cost involved, I have no idea. I expect it wouldn't be cheap. A company called BayTSP comes to mind.
I wouldn't think it would be all that costly to initiate a civil suit against said uploaders; they might even settle rather than spend a ton of money defending themselves (the RIAA used this tactic rather successfully).
But I'm sure Steve has investigated all this already and knows more about it than I. 
Bill- There are enough proxy servers out there that an adept person could pretty much evade being found. At least some of the servers one might use are going to be in countries that either don't agree with US IP laws, or doing care about the USA at all.
As an (ancient and outdated) example from the mid 90s- someone in Finland used to have a well known anon mail server. He (she?) went to a lot of trouble to ensure that short of catching your traffic as it went down the wire, the lawyers had nothing they could get their hands on (i.e. no logging of traffic).
Could someone catch a less skilled pirate without NSA grade skills? Yes. Would it cut down on piracy by an order of magnitude? Probably yes.
Quote:I wouldn't think it would be all that costly to initiate a civil suit against said uploaders; they might even settle rather than spend a ton of money defending themselves (the RIAA used this tactic rather successfully).
No, that's not the way it often works. The way it often works is that the pirate has no real assets. You sue the pirate (and $10K in legal fees is VERY cheap, let me assure you). The pirate never shows up in court. You get a judgement. Pirate then invokes local laws that prevent most folks from attaching most personal assets "necessary for day-to-day living" - or simply doesn't bother to do anything. You then can spend more money trying to squeeze blood from a turnip, or you can wring your hands in frustration and go home. Either way, it stinks. Your best bet is often to get the ISP to continually bring down the pirated material again and again and again - which is precisely the situation SVC says he's in.
There's probably only one way to stop these types of pirates, and that is to put them in jail or legitimately threaten them with jail. However, that is also tough as many prosecutors won't go after "petty" cases, and the offenders will often just move to some proxy like a library.
Basically, until there's a system to reliably threaten even small time offenders with serious personal consequences (like jail time) piracy, especially "small scale" piracy, will continue to be a major problem.
SVC:
Isn't there technology out there somewhere that you can put a "security lock" on things so if a person tries to "reupload or anything else like that" then the document won't do it or at the extreme scrub the document of all content and the person trying to do it will lose the document entirely ?
That would seem to be able to get rid of the problem of piracy wouldn't it ?
Just wondering that is all.
the problem is that fileware sharing programs are very easy to get, there is no downside to piratecy on the internet remove file insert disk reload file your down 10 min or so. copyright is not a right to most intrnet users (it on the web it free) in the anime industry the loses to fansub and uploads of tv howed that played last night are running into the millions of lost sales.
There are days when you could wish for a virus that infected a server and when an ilegeal site was actived it delivered a kill virus to the computer doing the download
John: Yes, such software exists, but so does the software to remove the lock.
The best you can hope for is to keep things down to a low roar and make honest people aware and let them be proud they are not breaking the law.
If you find them, some of us are unemployed and work cheaper than lawyers
Folks, one of the ways you can help us is to hunt down pirate sites and report them to SVC. I found four just yesterday that had files uploaded yesterday and the day before.
Another way you can help is to tell your fellow players who link to illegal sites how much you disapprove of their decision. Shunning can be a strong social influence. And yes, I have found pages that do exactly that.
A third way you can help is to share with your fellow players that when they put up "slightly modified" SSDs, then they are basically stealing our intellectual property. Putting up our DAC is stealing. Putting up "just one" of our products does hurt. If everyone puts up "just one" item, everything will go up.
A fourth way you can help is if you have already scanned one of the products online or way back when you downloaded the pack that was floating around Usenet, then do the right thing and get a legal copy. Suggest the same to your fellow players when they ask why they should when they already have a copy. At one point all of us were young and ignorant and may have done something without realizing the consequences to other people and the harm we were doing to ordinary people named Steve Cole, Steven Petrick, Leanna Cole, Mike Sparks, and Joel Shutts. But now we cannot claim ignorance. Now is the time to make it right.
Bill Stec just scored 14 pirate kills and a bronze star in one day.
W00t! Go Bill!
I created this topic for discussions of anti-pirate strategies. DO NOT post pirate links here (no point in showing honest people dishonest sources). We will use the topic to explain things and answer questions and commend the best of the hunters.
I moved a bunch of recent pirate posts here which may cause some confusion in the order of the conversation.
[Order fixed. It was making my fingers itchy. -- Jean]
Steve,
I'm sure you've thought of it, but is it feasible/desirable to enlist the help of Paramount in protecting their IP? They've got the money and lawyers to go after folk you can't afford to.
Of course there may be some reason why it's not a good idea, which why I asked.
Those 14 pirate kills resulted from a quick 10-minute Google Search. I suspect that if some of the folk here on the BBS were able to dedicate 10 minutes a day to dredge the Net it might result in alot more pirate sites being found.
You have to be careful to not wake the sleeping giant. If Paramount were to decide it would be cheaper to buy out ADB's license (an ethical response) or to find a legal or not so legal loophole to cancel the license (an unethical response) than to track down and quash pirates...
Johnathan,
Good point. I figured there was some reason.
Paramount isn't going to hunt our pirates for us. (We did ask them before. If somebody steals THEIR stuff, we tell them and they get medieval and we get a bonus point on the "nice licensee" chart. But they said it's not their job to protect our stuff.)
Mike Novean scored 7 kills today.
As far as pirating goes. Can you clarify "the line" of what is a violation? I have been searching around for the past 2 days and have found some cheap knock off type stuff.
I have seen a few sites where a guy posts a Fed CA but instead of just a scan copy of your SSD he created his own in CAD/Paint or other software. Essentially it is the same ship but he added a ship name, used his own fonts, and placed the weapon charts in a different locations on the page. Seems a cheap rip off to just add a moniker like "USS Baltazaar" or some such and essentially post the same ship you guys are selling.
Another work around I have seen (same site) is to call something 'improved'. This guy drew his own line art for the back ground jammed in all of the Fed CL systems added a phaser or two and called it "Improved Fed CL".
There are 3000 of these examples including a bunch of made up empires. Seems you are correct in that guys like this have submitted stuff and were angry about having their "super weapon" rejected so they go off on their own tangent.
Even if these guys are not in direct violation I guess they should still have the 'eye' watching them. Are we focused on only "official stuff"?
My primary concern is over exact copies of entire products.
Lots of people post their own SSDs, and the web rules allow this (so long as the rules are followed, and rather than summarize them, you guys can all go read them).
Doing TNG stuff, or Galactica stuff, violates both our copyrights and those of much more powerful entities.
Bill Stec has four 48 pirates in 3 days and is 2 pirates away from a gold medal. He is already the #2 pirate killer in Star Fleet. (#1 has 119.)