Xander,
I get it. It is hard for me to read ADB's intentions, so i am taking best guesses. I recall a recent post where SVC said he would be happy with $40K, but I also recall a post or posts where "Secret Project T" would make ADB bigger than SJG. So the target may be a moving one (which is just fine, before launch). My main point is I believe the quality needs to be upped.

I understand the game is not yet on kickstarter, but there was a note earlier from Steve to go ahead and spread the link to it around. I assume that link will be on facebook soon (if it is not already). IMO, a prototype of the game that is reasonably polished needs to be what goes public. Otherwise word of mounth will be unduly negative.

Douglas and Xander,
The puffbals are cute. tribbles are cute. I get that. Puffballs are also cheap, and not exclusively in the good way. From game play, a sneeze of even strong sigh will send them scattering. I would make them plastic, but I accept opinions will vary on what should actually go in the game.

Most importantly, however, is the labling. If you want to say your game has 100 puffball tribbles, great, have at it. If you tell people that the 100 puffballs are "100 alien miniatures" then I think you will have a marketting problem.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 08:24 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

The puffbals are cute. tribbles are cute. I get that. Puffballs are also cheap, and not exclusively in the good way. From game play, a sneeze of even strong sigh will send them scattering. I would make them plastic, but I accept opinions will vary on what should actually go in the game

---

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Plastic tribbles and or plastic soldiers will not happen. Don't waste time on that. Not unless you see $200,000 in pledges.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 08:31 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

Not unless you see $200,000 in pledges.

---

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 08:51 pm: Edit

The labor involved with stuffing them with BBs or even gluing them all to BBs would be scary. Not at one set at a time at your house to your own copy, but say 1000 game sets times 100 Tribbles.

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 08:59 pm: Edit

I am a bit concerned with the turn around time involved. Most kickstarter games have about a six-month window from the close of kickstarter to the beginning of release date.
(Those that had shorter windows, already had their extras and stretch goals available to be added to the product at a moments notice)

Currently the proposed kickstarter ending is set on the last week of June and the release date is set in the Fall. That is about a three or four month window. The question is, can ADB be ready to ship out a full production run based on that timeframe.
(Considering we are still in the developing stage as to what should be started with, and what can be added to by means of stretch goals.)

Keep in mind ADB staff is stretched thin as it is with manpower and time availability for this project. To meet the projected release time the staff would have to halt or severely curtail all other ADB projects until this is released. Considering the extra amount of time SVC has to spend with Mongoose, that is what needs to be done.

I'm not saying that this can't be done, we all know what the staff can be capable of when push comes to shove. I'm just pointing out that WE need to all come to an agreement on how we can handle the stretch goals and and starts off as the beginnings of the game within the next TWO WEEKS.

By Phil Abramowitz (Pabramowitz) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 10:53 pm: Edit

As someone interested in using the miniatures for other games/purposes, I would like the Kickstarter page to show at least one close up of the miniature, in raw metal, with a black wash to show the highlights and hopefully sell others on the quality of the figure. I also would not be happy if the minis were covered in a solid coat of paint that I would have to strip off before I repainted them, but I can live with that.

Also, maybe a mention of how durable the puffballs are - I like the idea, but what will they look like after 6 months of gameplay?

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 11:10 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

If you tell people that the 100 puffballs are "100 alien miniatures" then I think you will have a marketting problem.

---

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 11:32 pm: Edit

Yes, if I had said "puffball" i'd have exposed the secret.

I suspect that we'll sell the minis separately so you can get unpainted ones.

I wouldn't worry about the schedule. I said at the start that we don't know most of what we're doing, and we'll figure it out. I also said we'd put it on Kickstarter when we're ready, not on an arbitrary date. Lighten up and avoid the panic.

If you want to stuff your puffballs with BBs go ahead. I never said I'd do it. Being one of only four people who ever played the game, the "puffballs blowing in the wind" was not a problem.

I hate cardboard punchouts. (I have said i want flat ogre counters, not the put together 3d ones.) Pewter is fine, really. I mean, Monopoly used it when I was like ten years old. So did every game I played.

Correct, plastic don't look like tribbles. puffballs do. Leanna said she would pick from the available colors. I haven't gone to look yet (she's in charge of those) but she said they had a lot of colors and that she knew what a tribble looked like before 98% of you guys ever saw one.

It's not a moving target, Paul, just my sense of humor.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 11:50 pm: Edit

Pledge level suggestion: "Sponsor a Sculpt. At this level and you are making the game better for everyone by paying our sculptor to do a new Klingon Warrior sculpt, which will be included in every copy of the game. You also get a copy of the game, your name in the credits, [blah blah blah]." Make this a limited pledge level, like the sponsor a countersheet level on Ogre. One sculpt already exists, and you need five more, so five of this available. If you don't get all five sponsored, you may have to double up on some sculpts in the game, I suppose.

"Sponsor a Xanderised mapsheet" is also a possibility, but the problem with that is that it's all or nothing - either the whole map must be Xanderised or none of it, so you can't split it up into individual pledges.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 11:52 pm: Edit

More replies, going back to the other archive...

map in 3d program. Uh... no.I hate those.

Leanna is in charge of color choices. For the map, for tribbles, for anything.

Action cards: Well, Level A (probably the one we'd have done without kickstarter) is like monopoly chance cards. Level B (real cards) and Level C (uber cool art) are higher.

I did tell you guys i was going to get really upset with you comparing this to Ogre. It's not, and it never was. As for how much money, I don't know yet. Remember, I told you that. I do'nt have quotes. I got no idea of price or cost. You guys find ideas and if I haven't already ruled them out on cost (e.g., plastic) then I'll go get a quote.

Target market Zombies!!! yeah, sortta, not really, kinda. This is a combat game, not a joke game. Walk the halls and shoot the fools. I want to spend my final years doing games for people who don't have 150-180 IQs which means none of you guys are the target market. We were playing zombies when this got invented. We disliked the rules to Zombies!!! so much we started changing the rules to fix the dumb parts and when they didn't want to do a "Zombies vs Klingons" joint venture Jean said "tribbles!" and away we go. She had tribbles on the brain because of the story in CL45 about Ketrick being arrested by the ESS and his cat saving him. Tribbles were involved. You'll see.

Horta. Uh... yeah. Maybe after Tholians vs Zombies.

The attack model actually isn't the same. Phaser and disruptor carbine shots are pretty much auto-kill three squares out. Walk the halls and shoot the fools. I've tested it and it works great. The point is to rack up kill bags over 50 tribbles. (You keep recycling puffballs.) We also got rid of the "die roll for movement" rule from zombies!!! because Petrick was so far ahead no one could touch him and then he rolled four "1" in a row and lost.We want the focus to be the carbines and pistols. Walk and shoot, take a step forward and shoot the next tribble. Repeat. Hand to hand combat is a bad choice unless you have the bag of daggers card.

Jean and Leanna are WAY ahead of you guys on the Xander map. Why do you think it exists? Because Leanna said (Xander can confirm) "you're an engineer, leave art to the artists". I knew when I first saw his sample that my engineering version was toast, even if it makes a better game board. Hell, my engineering version beats the crap out of the tiles in Zombies!!! and you all know it. Xanderization will be a stretch goal (an easy one) but, again, Leanna rules the color scheme and lighting. And she wants it brighter. I told her to wait until we can print out some bigger areas and do some tests when the real puffballs come in. (Michael's is a swell source to find something already being made that you can use.)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 11:53 pm: Edit

Terry: That's already part of the plan. Including chainmail biki... WHAAANNNGGGGG!!!

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 11:57 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

I want to spend my final years doing games for people who don't have 150-180 IQs which means none of you guys are the target market.

---

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 01:06 am: Edit

I have to say, this one was unexpected.

A couple of thoughts:

*If later goals could allow for the addition of subject species miniatures, could there also perhaps be scope for Lyran or Romulan exchange officers?

*Also, if things go well enough, could there be the option of a second version of the map; one re-coloured to work as a Kestrel? (In which case, a Klingon or Lyran might be a "visitor" among a Romulan crew.)

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 01:54 am: Edit

---

Quote:

I did tell you guys i was going to get really upset with you comparing this to Ogre.

---

By Jack Bohn (Jackbohn) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 08:16 am: Edit

I like the idea of a Lyran or Romulan. As it is not their ship, or their reward system, would they come with a card giving them slightly different rules, or at least slightly different scoring?

As to an entire Kestral ship, I dunno. No one has quite the interaction as Klingons and Tribbles. I don't see the Roms evacuating the lower decks; they'd be more catlike in pretending to ignore the annoyance. Still Xander will eventually have to develop a palette for each empire's deckplans!

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 09:49 am: Edit

I like the idea of a Romulan ship as part of an expansion, assuming that the game is popular enough to justify one. Deck plans for a Warbird/War Eagle (the most recognisable Romulan ship and likely to draw in Trek fans of Romulans), some metal Romulans, rules for playing them stand-alone and for integrating them with the base game (including using the Klingon ship as a Kestrel, or as special guest stars in the original game) and you have a nice supplement... although SVC's probably way ahead of me again and has already thought of all this.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 10:16 am: Edit

Tribbles don't reduce Romulans to a catatonic stupor. The Roms would just walk around killing them. (From the home computer, not going to be at work for a while.)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 11:52 am: Edit

Romulans may well have a unique reaction to tribbles. While not fear, perhaps rage. First they are enamored by them, which alters their brain chemestry and starts a mental conflict between compassion and rage against lack of control. They just can't handle the lovey-dovey feelings tribble bring out in them! They go nuts and become distructive.

Kzinti and Lyrans become playful, unproductive kittens.
Gorns try to eat them then feel really guilty. (They will over eat to a catatonic state)

Tholians get distracted momenterilly by an odd burning smell. However, they have learned about them and have managed to synthesize the sounds and squeels they make (some special opts troops are trained to mimic the sound) just so they can send really nasty replies to Klingon hails!

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 03:57 pm: Edit

Ok everybody, based from the canon of the series. Tribbles seem to very much like Vulcans as they do humans as they do most other species. Romulans being descended from Vulcan stock would probably gender a similar reaction.

Let face it, trying to get deck plans from different empires is not going to happen with this game. (Not unless you change the tribbles to a corresponding rodent/pest/parasite that genders a similar reaction for each species in each of their empires)

[BTW - Loren, that last comment was just pure evil. I liked it ]

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 04:19 pm: Edit

Goodness Gracious, Great Balls of Fire!

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 05:35 pm: Edit

Hailing Frequencies just came out but doesn't mention Tribbles vs Klingons in the news section, perhaps it should?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 05:39 pm: Edit

Terry: too late now (how did Jean miss that?). At least it's in communique.

Jean had it put in COOL STUFF.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 05:40 pm: Edit

Xander turned on the lights

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 05:46 pm: Edit

I like the lighted one better, the steel around the edges is very nice. I looks like the deckplans people are creating with Cosmographer by Profantasy Software (They have tons of traveller deckplans on their forums FYI)