Archive through July 24, 2013
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Archive through July 24, 2013
While many suggested it, the idea of "here are the five important rooms and some generic hallways" has never actually functioned in an RPG where players expect to move 28mm minis around. We tried it. It was ugly, confusing, and stupid.
Now, there is this:
Which is part of the prototype KRAG system, but adaptable to Prime directive (if you stop arguing with me). The "floor squares" are about an inch and represent 3x3.5 meters and roughly four Traveller squares. [There is no way in hell you can do a whole D7 in any practical way in "real traveller scale" so just get over it and don't argue with me. No dining room table can hold a whole d7 the way these are done and if you want them done three times this size so you can have your standard traveller 1.5 inch = 1.5 meter scale, you will need to rent the grand ballroom.]
(I have three entire decks so far, but you won't see them for a while. I dabble on them when I'm in the mood to do something graphicky. The theory is when I'm actually ready to do KRAG the whole set will be done. )
And do NOT suggest we Xanderize them. I am a frakking registered engineer and these are not art but engineering, so get over it.
The FASA D-7 had a blueprint version (similar to the ones published in Captain's Log)and each deck fit on a 11" x 17" piece of paper. The 15mm square (1/2 inch) Traveller style Fasa D-7 deckplans where 15mm equals 1.5 meters were printed on paper that was 22" x 33 1/2" roughly two feet by three feet which fits even on a card table. At 1" scale (25mm-30mm, 1 inch minis) the same deck plan would be four feet by six feet. That would fit on most dining tables with a leaf extension in the middle. For comparison the F&E large scale map is 30" x 70".
Now it is possible that a SFU D-7 has different dimensions and is longer or wider than a FASA D-7 but I fail to see where a ballroom would be needed for the deck plans.
At the scale I used, you'd need 8 of the 11x17s. On an eight foot high school cafeteria table, it works, barely.
Doing them in "normal" traveller scale (where 1.5 meter squares are 1.5 inches or 37mm or NINE times the area you speak of) would mean 8 sheets 26x40, which no single table would hold. You'd need at least eight high school cafeteria tables (and, hence, you WOULD need the ballroom).
I have been going around and around and around with traveller players on my D7 plans for six months now. They scream and yell that they must have 1.5 inch = 1.5 meters and nothing else will do BY GAWD. I blew them up to that scale and, well, you try playing an RPG that is on EIGHT different cafeteria tables.
And I do believe the discussion was about a POCKET game...
My scale (had to go check) is 20 pixels to a meter, or 20/72 inches = 0.27 inches to a meter, or 7mm = 1 meter.
Speaking of pocket games wasn't a mini star fleet game with cards in the works, something like a World War I biplane dogfight game or something. What happened to that?
Fasa had D-7 and Constitution class deckplan I have them both around here somewhere
West End Games had a couple Star Wars pocket games are they similar?
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3152/star-wars-starfighter-battle-books
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5733/star-wars-lightsaber-dueling
Shawn H. The plans you mention do work... one deck at a time. You get into trouble when you have characters on multiple decks (which would be a regular occurance).
I have a friend with those deck plans and they are really cool. Personally, I'd say to heck with minis if I had deck plans that good... or I'd draw areas as was called for. But that's just me.
SVC: No arguement here. I'll take that example in a game. To borrow from the theater, "The combat's the thing!"
The world war i fighter thing was a company that owned the game and wanted to do a star fleet version. But they never did, and we never knew how their game worked.
I used FASA's D7 deck plans in a 3.5e D&D scenario a while back. Come to think of it, I also used the Fed CA deck plans, too, for when the players had to save the Enterprise from Xenomorph Aliens (without a queen, though).
They worked perfectly fine for me, particularly because I didn't need the entire deck (or decks) at once.
Pocket Game?
Yes, please!
I was reading about the classic game Diplomacy. Is there any interest in a Star Fleet Universe version?
Some things about the game that intrigue me are simultaneous movement, no use of dice, and heavy reliance on social and interpersonal skills. Combat is highly abstracted as the game is about outmaneuvering your opponents via "diplomacy" (i.e. mind games; deal making/breaking). There are elements which remind me of Risk, Poker, and Chess.
Oh, and while I'm thinking of it: Star Fleet BattleChess
These aren't exact, but somewhat close:
Gorns = Russia
Romulans = Turkey
Federation = Germany
Kzinti = England
Klingons = France
Hydrans = Italy
Lyrans = Spain/Portugal instead of Austria-Hungary
Seriously, the thing that makes Diplomacy really interesting is the way various provinces connect with one another. A space version of Diplomacy would not be the same, at least to me. There is a Star Wars version of Risk, though, so why not?!
We might mix and match frontier provinces so there's overlap between empires. That way there's an "automatic" claim by either side.
Star Fleet BattleChess
Overview
- The object of SFBC is to capture your opponent's Admiral (i.e. capture the piece he is embarked in)
- Game uses a hexgrid board of hexagonal shape 5 hexes on a face (similar to a Shafran board, only with 61 hex cells)
- As with chess, only one piece may be moved each turn, and each piece has specialized movement/attack rules
- Each player starts with 15 pieces: 1 Admiral ("king"), 1 Dreadnought ("king"), 1 Starbase ("queen"), 6 Fighters (pawn), 2 Cruisers (rook), 2 Destroyers (bishop), and 2 Frigates (knight)
- Each piece has a Battle Rating (BR) of 8 which can be used to move, attack, and/or protect; BR is reduced by damage (tracked with a simple sheet/card)
- Pieces are captured (removed from play) when an attacking piece moves into an undefended piece's hex; a piece is considered undefended when its BR is zero
Movement- Starbases do not move
- Dreadnoughts may move only 1 hex in any direction
- Cruisers may move up to 7 hexes in only one direction (may turn once to follow outer edge of board)
- Destroyers may move up to 7 hexes in up to two directions (any turn to follow outer edge of board is free)
- Frigates must move 3 hexes which must include one direction change (any turn to follow outer edge of board is free)
- Fighters may only advance 1 hex (toward the enemy's side), but hold a single 2-hex "Strike" movement in reserve which allows a direction change (so long as it is in an advancing direction)
- Dreadnoughts, Heavy Cruisers, and Destroyers may not move through any occupied hex (Destroyers can move "around" occupied hexes with direction change)
- Frigates may "jump" over occupied hexes to arrive at an unoccupied hex within movement range
- Fighters may not move through any occupied hex except during their 2-hex "Strike"
- Players must perform each hex of movement
- The Admiral is embarked on either the Dreadnought or the Starbase at the start of the game (player's choice), and may "Transfer Flag" once per game to any friendly piece (this is treated as a movement)
Attack/Protect- After a player moves a piece legally, he declares how many Protect Points the piece is using (which may not be changed until the player moves the piece again)
- Protect Points (PP) available = BR - Damage - Hexes Moved
- Attack Points (AP) = BR - Damage - Hexes Moved - PP
- AP reduced by 1 for each hex of range (which means Starbases cannot damage each other)
- Pieces may fire on opponent's pieces which are not not blocked by other pieces
- Admiral gives "embarked" piece double PP
- Starbase may spend PP to repair damaged friendly pieces (1 damage repaired per PP spent)
- If AP are not greater than PP, no damage is scored; PP lost from enemy attack do not count as Damage
- Damage = Enemy AP - Friendly PP
- AP against Fighters are halved (rounded up)
- Dreadnought AP against any piece within 1 hex is doubled
- Fighters may attack any piece in either "oblique" hex in the "advancing" direction
- During Strike, Fighters may attack any piece in direct path of movement or in an adjacent hex, but only one piece may be attacked; Fighters do not have to end Strike movement in hex of attacked piece
Notes- I think there should be a Fighter Promotion rule (like Pawn Promotion), but I'm not sure how that should work
- I also think there should be a Dogfight rule for opposing Fighters, but I'm not sure how to do it
- I'm not sure if Fighters should have Protect Points
- I think one direction change for Destroyers is adequate, but it might prove useful to allow two direction changes per movement
- Reduce AP by 1 every two hexes?
- I'm not sure if a piece should be undefended before an attacking piece moves into its hex, or if you can move in, blast his BR down to zero, and capture at end of turn; should not be able to occupy the same hex unless you can ultimately capture
- Initial piece configuration should be related to chess, but I'm not sure exactly what it would look like here
There's probably a bunch of things I'm not thinking of (like hex color rules).
(Eh, the above post started as a couple of notes then kind of blossomed.)
SFB New Ship Mini-Modules
In looking at the discussion of the next SFB module, I have mixed feelings. My main interesting is filling in the gaps in the Alpha sector fleets. In recent publications there have been some new lines of ships introduced, such as the Light/Fast Battleships, Space Patrol Ships, Heavy War Cruisers, Battle Frigates (those frigates with the add-ons making them destroyers), and the system ships (like the ISC NCA). There also many other possibilities, such as more Y era ships being upgraded to National Guard (Module R8?) standards; the Lyran LDD as part of the Module R11? Preview but not the final product.
But is there enough there to produce a full blown R13 (or a Y4 or a X1B), I’m not convinced. So I’ll throw this idea out there. Instead these would become part of a new line of “mini-modules” available via e23 only. Basically the idea would be each mini-module would have about 16 SSDs, a couple pages of ship descriptions, and maybe a printable make-your-own-counters page. (No color cardboard cover or counters.) Priced at like $7 (just a guess, not going to tell you how much to charge.)
But what should be in each mini-module and how do you know that it will sell? This is where it would become largely consumer driven. Take the kickstarter concept and combine it with the e23 site. Basically you post a skeleton of a module on e23 with the caveat the real module will be produced when a minimum number of orders are received. When the real one is posted, the buyer are informed by e-mail and can then download the real module. (The e-mail and downloading a new version are already part of the e23 system, so this part is no work.)
Now for the consumer participation part of this. The contents would largely be decided by vote of the consumer that “buy” the skeleton module. The skeleton module would be like a ballot that has list of possible ships on it, maybe 50-100 possibilities. Each possibility would list the empire and class, along with a short (one sentence) description. This list would have been vetted by ADB ships they would be willing to make a SSD for. Upon purchase, the customer would be allowed to chose their 10 choices to include in the mini-module. This “ballot” would be sent to a special e-mail address set up for this purpose. (I’m not sure how to validate ballots match purchases. If ADB gets some kind of electronic sales receipt which is passed to the voter tallyer perhaps.)
Once the threshold of sales is met, the actual production of the module would be put on the short term schedule somehow. The top 16 vote getters are include; possibly with ADB make some adjustments, such as include a few ships they want to which were on the ballot. When done, it is posted to e23. And then it is done.
If this is a successful model, the process is repeated with mini-module #2. Additional nominations would be added to the ballot. For consumer who’s votes didn’t make the mini-module, perhaps there could be some carry over credit like a ½ vote each.
Perhaps just a crazy idea.
Not workable. We don't sell enough copies on e23 to be worth the bother, and the vast majority of people want counters.
How about a deck of "ADB" themed playing cards? Maybe the same suit is the same allegiance...Feds, Klingons, etc. Maybe A's are X-ship themed, Queens are Heavey cruisers, etc.
I miss the old Star Fleet Missions card game..
DriveThruRPG has a new division called DriveThruCards. Seems like a print-on-demand operation for card games of all types. Cheapass Games already have some games there. I wonder if it might be suitable for SFBF expansions, or to resurrect Star Fleet Missions.
Well if not suitable for a full out SFBF Expansion maybe we caould get some of the Playtest Cards from Captains Log done.
Another thought might be Battle Damage Code Red or a FC Manuver Deck with a Slither Card. =p
With an e23 version of "For the Glory of the Empire" out, would it be possible to get some full size color covers printed and P.O.D. some full size books to sell hardcopies in brick and motars stores since they never would order the smaller paperback version?
Probably not. Stores would or would not carry the book based on many factors but size is not one of them.
We have never tried to market it to stores.