How about Amazon?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 02:43 pm: Edit

We haven't tried that either.

Basically, we cannot try to market the book until we have at least two and preferably four books, and I've had higher priorities.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Two, preferably four books...is that because of the gaming niche or something else? (I get it that you have had higher priorities, which is totally understandable.)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 08:23 pm: Edit

That's what it takes to launch a book series from a publisher who has never done "trade paperbacks".

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis) on Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 11:01 pm: Edit

SVC....I am betting this has come up but have you thought of publishing a series of technical manuals in similar format to the original, one for each race from the original series? That would capitalize very well on your license and sell well too, I bet.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, July 26, 2013 - 12:12 am: Edit

I am not sure it would be accepted by the broader trek audience.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Saturday, July 27, 2013 - 03:24 am: Edit

How about a somewhat simplified version of F&E.

Something on the order of the old "Third Reich" in complexity...

The current game is daunting in the amount of time it takes to play/ understand/ etc.

I know this would be a pretty massive undertaking...

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, July 27, 2013 - 04:00 am: Edit

That is an interesting idea. Yes...

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Saturday, July 27, 2013 - 09:59 am: Edit

I'm not sure I would call 3rd Reich simpler than F&E. Quicker? Absolutely, both because of the much lower number of counters and the smaller number of turns. 3R's rules are pretty helaciously complex though, especially because of all the political fiddly bits.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Saturday, July 27, 2013 - 10:28 am: Edit

My point is that 3R is a complex game with multiple paths to victory. But it abstracts out a lot of stuff F&E would go into detail...

I mean the sheer number of counters in F&E!

I could easily live with Battle Groups instead of individual ships.

It would really be better IMHO if you didn't have some ships that are basically immune to ever getting smacked dead.

F&E people, how often does the CVA die when it is in a battlegroup? Or the uber scout in the formation box?

How about a Battle Group has Combat & Defense factors. The fighters add a little to the combat and more to the defense (as they get sacrificed to protect mamma)... So a FF might be 1-1 while a FFE would be 0-1.

You could abstract Admirals by just saying that every ship over a certain size has an Admiral (so the DNs & CVAs but not groups of Cruisers).

Whomever has the edge in EW could allocate each point of EW advantage to the 2d6 roll for increasing the damage they dish out or reducing the damage they recieve...

So for example:

I have a set of ships (a CVA battle group plus a Cruiser led battle group & an GSC) with a sum strength of 22-28 with EW4

You have a DN led Battle group plus a CV battle group & D6S with strength of 26-24 and EW3.

My attack is 22 vs your defense of 24.
Your attack is 26 vs my defense of 28.

I get to use my 1 point of EW superiority to influence EITHER my attack roll in my favor or your attack roll in my favor.

the BIG problem is that SVC & the Colonel (DRAWING A BLANK) have carefully balanced the current F&E. And I am sure it would be a pretty massive quest to scale it down to my proposal...

And I don't think anyone but them has the grasp of the ebb and flow of the game to do a less detailed game justice.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, July 27, 2013 - 11:13 am: Edit

It's called KLINGON INVASION and it's been talked about since 2006. Not a new idea.

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis) on Sunday, July 28, 2013 - 10:06 pm: Edit

Third Reich less complex than F&E? Now I know that is a game (F&E) I buy when I retire ;-)

By Mark Hutton (Trynda1701) on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 07:03 pm: Edit

This has probably been mentioned before, and may be as unlikely as the calendar idea mentioned last year?

Is there any potential in a SFU art book? All that cool cover art deserves to be seen in their own glory after hiding SFU goodness in their repective publications? I know that I'm mainly thinking of the Captain's Log's cover art, but there's the Booster/Squadron box stuff, and Prime Directive is coming out with just as cool art (both line and color).

I know it may again come down to cost again, but thought I would mention it. I haven't been following the BBS long enough to know if it may be buried a good few years back here.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 09:32 pm: Edit

Too expensive to print.
Almost no market.

Minimum print run would be 1000 (and unit cost would be ferocious below 5000) and I honestly don't see sales topping 50.

I would not even bother putting it on Kickstarter because I know in my gut it would be a spectacular failure and would ruin my batting average.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 09:35 pm: Edit

Well, I can say I know a little about the costs of a book like that. To reasonably show that art off you need glossy pages on thick paper. You have to sell a whole lot or charge a whole lot, and even if you sell a whole lot it won't be cheap.
Massive Black is a concept art company and they produce a book series called D'Artist. In an on-line conversation at the start they mentioned some of the numbers involved. Their first issue was a real challenge for them to get out but it was a success because they had a huge following of world class artists and the book was full of digital art work by world class artists (and it looked fantastic). Still, the hard covers sold for over $100 and the paper back (released later) was about $60.
Mark Evens knows what I'm talking about. He probably has one or two.


However, if ADB published one I'd buy it. I'd save up to buy one if I had to.

By Mark Hutton (Trynda1701) on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 12:37 pm: Edit

I thought the price thing would be a problem.

It's a pity there isn't a way to do it on print to demand.

I also thought the market might have been a bit bigger than that. But there you go.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Correction to the above post by me. It was not Massive Black that produces those books but the publishing side of CG Society (and CG Talk forums) call Ballistic Publishing. They have a huge line of great art books.

Massive Black is a concept art company and a great one at that.

Anyway, just needed to set the record straight.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 01:43 pm: Edit

Well, it can be done print on demand, but you're talking a dollar per page. I have no idea how many covers might be included. There are certainly a lot to consider. I don't even want to count them but figuring on minis boxes and boosters (about 100 there) and then captain's logs (47) and FC products (15) and F&E (10) and SFB (50?) you'd easily cross 200, say 250, plus a little color interior art and back cover art done now and then. Even if you did it in 100-page volumes you've got a lot.

Then you have to account for Simone's time to put the book together, which would be a couple of hundred dollars per book, probably. That's a lot up front but not many dollars per book.

So figure a cost of $100 per book and a retail price for mail order only of $150 per book and if you want me to sell it through stores call it $500 per book, so it's not going through stores. Not sure who would pay $150 for a book of SFU art.

By Mark Hutton (Trynda1701) on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 02:07 pm: Edit

Ah well.

It sounds like a hell of a cool product, but I know you guys and girls know your business stuff. After, all, you run the Company!

Just a Trek starship nut (SFU, FASA etc) who thought there may have been a chance! Sniff!

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis) on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 10:24 pm: Edit

SVC can't you leverage the original series license and market it not as SFU but as a strong affiliation with Star Trek? Or, will that be too close to home for Paramount? I would think new art in that genre could also be made for it, no?

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 11:11 pm: Edit

All our products must be related to gaming. We can't use Star Trek to promote the SFU.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 11:27 pm: Edit

It would be tricky to get it past the license gates, but maybe not impossible.

But in the end I don't see a $150 book selling to anyone.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 01:07 am: Edit

Unless it came with an LSM!

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 01:49 am: Edit

I would pay $150 for Leanna's Fighting Starships, but I'm probably the only one.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 04:03 am: Edit

Will, drop me a note avpbout that. Let's see if we can dust off that file.