We would be only too happy to find a small company that can make models of our ships for sale. However, due to the flakiness of the last model company, the ony way we can market such things is on consignment, not dropship. (We can sub-license the company to sell them and send us a royalty, but we can do joint marketing. The model company can ask us for details.) The model company would have to send us some kits, we'd list them on the cart and sell them and send the model company their money at that point. The last guy did dropship (we paid him, then he shipped) but did NOT ship the kits, leaving us holding the bag for very unhappy customers. Anyone with any leads on small companies that could do this is asked to Email me (design@StarFleetGames.com) the info or post it here. Feel free to send a copy of this post to any model companies you know.

By Brad Hodges (Treadhead) on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 02:04 pm: Edit

The guys you really need to get the straight dope from hang out at:

starshipmodeler.com

There are many bona fide professional high end model "master" makers (i.e. "masters" as in the original models that model casting MOLDS are made from, but also literally, as in "master" rated) on that forum.
Rel, DLMathis, Alfred Wong, Thomas Sasser, etc.

Rel is absolutely the boss for big trek kits. His 1/350 Rommie warbird and Klink D7 is awesome, not to mention the stunning 1/350 Ent-D, and the Ent-E; which are in a class of their own.

Realistically, medium size vaccuform styrene "garage" kits are probly the way to go. Vacform kits cost very little to produce, have adequate detail for TOS starship hulls, and require minimal labor. Small detail parts can be cast resin (clear even), but that does cost a good bit more than the basic vacform kit.
Injection is prohibitively expensive, and resin is not far behind for large models.

The most popular scales to stick to are 1/350, 1/650, 1/1000. I like the 1/1000 as it is small enough to sit on a shelf, and big enough to show all the little details, and even lit with interior lighting. 1/350 can be quite a handful. Look to the Polar Lights trek kits for examples.

Probly a good idea to have the "talent" (artist) make the masters, and then another guy do the technical "production", and run the "business end". That frees up the talent to make more new art, instead of wasting time cranking out onsie twosie copies.
Also, generally speaking, artists make poor businessmen, which does make sense actually.

Frankly, if you have a small workshop space, the footprint for a vacform machine setup is "tabletop" in size, and it is really easy to do. Bagging and storing inventory you alreay do, so I see no reason why ADB cannot do this in house.

Probly want to farm out resin detail kits tho. It is expensive, messy, smelly, and tedious to turn out consistent product.

Same for decals. Farm it out. There are several talented artists who do great work with decals. The Alps printer is expensive, but all they have to do is click "print", and ship them out to ADB as needed.

Dunno about up in the panhandle, but in austin, we have a do-it-yourself CNC guy, who will custom mill out small parts in plastic from online CNC design-it-yourslef utility plans, for very reasonable rate. These can then be set in a fixture and vacformed, thus bypassing the need for a master model maker--at least for little parts.
An option to supplement vacform for shuttles, PFs, detail bits, etc.?

By Richard F Smith (Rfsmith) on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 02:10 pm: Edit

Another benefit of 1/1000 is that it can conceivably be used as a gaming marker. Also, there's 1/2500, which is about 2.5x as large as the typical miniature.

By Brad Hodges (Treadhead) on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 03:02 pm: Edit

[quote]
By Richard F Smith (Rfsmith) on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 02:10 pm: Edit

I think that, in general, the best way is to license people to produce the kits and have them handle all of it. They do the sales, the production, the warehousing, and the shipping; you put them as an external link on your website, and they send you a check every month based on how many kits they sold.

Another benefit of 1/1000 is that it can conceivably be used as a gaming marker. Also, there's 1/2500, which is about 2.5x as large as the typical miniature.
[/quote]
..............................

The problem with the idea of having one guy "take care of it for you" is that there is really no such one-stop-shop that will work on the cheap. That is just a fantasy.

Here is how it works in the real world: one artist is commsioned to dothe hull master(s) (eg. "Rel");
then a SECOND guy is hired to make the resin upgrade set (eg. "DLMathis");
and a THIRD guys has the ALPs to print up decals (eg. "JDecaLs"
http://www.starshipmodeler.biz/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=51
);
a FORTH guy does the photoetch upgrade (eg. "
http://www.modeling.paragrafix.com/
");
A FIFTH guy does the interior lighting upgrade kit (several guys have lighting kits out there, depending on how much you want to spend).

This is the way of things.

Check out your local IPMS if you doubt.

For example, it is pretty common to spend over $200-$250 on a fully tricked out model army tank.
Model airplane decked with resin parts, decals, photoetch, metalized paints runs close to that.
A ship can run 30%-50% over a tank, when decked out, or much more if really taken to the limits.

I would realistically put vacformed starships in between the "armor" and the "ship" category, as far as potential cost, and effort required. But that is not to say you CAN'T make a very pleasig model with "JUST" vacform, bondo, and paint, because you CAN.

The 1/2500 is a good alternative (if size is kept small!), but will be all resin cast (no interior lighting options), whereas for the same cost, you can do a 1/1000 or 1/650 vacform with resin/photoetch upgrades. 1/1000 is definately easier for older eyes/hands to work on, and that is no small consideration.

The big advantage of vacform is that it is MUCH cheaper, and tends to accomodate a wider range of modeling skills--you don't HAVE to use advanced upgrades, but you certainly CAN if you choose to.

OTOH, for out-of-the-box perfection, you are going to PAY!

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 03:18 pm: Edit

How many memos did you miss? I said, flat out, at the top, we CANNOT license somebody else to do it. (Paramount will NOT STAND FOR IT)

By Brad Hodges (Treadhead) on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 08:47 pm: Edit

Why not go straight to the source?

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/
Trek model forum:
http://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/viewforum.php?f=6

They are a really good bunch of geeks. They also happen to know their trade.

REL (da boss: he is a proffesional model MAKER, not a lowly kit assembler like most of us):
http://sovereignreplicas.com/

Feyman is good, he already has a tholian BC...
http://www.feymanshipyards.com/

Alfred Wong (the man is an artist)
http://www.alfredsmind.ca/

Cobywan:
http://home.comcast.net/~cobywan/mypage.html

Thomas Sasser (TOS trek specialty pro model maker)
http://www.pntmodels.com/

Don Mathis (resin details):
http://www.culttvman.com/matthys.html

Man there are so many others...these are just the ones off the top of my head.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Feel free to send them a copy of my post.

Oh, wait, I already said that.

By Brad Hodges (Treadhead) on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 01:28 am: Edit

[quote]
By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Feel free to send them a copy of my post.

Oh, wait, I already said that. [/quote]
..............

Yes you did Steve, and with all due respect, the fact is it simply does not work that way, as I tried to point out.

To clarify: there is no "them" to "input" directive, to then equal "output" product:

Directive =/= Product

Okay?

Now then, how it DOES work goes something like this:
1.For starters, someone has to first decide what "topic" (ship type or whatever) is most important, and then someone has to come up with a budget for the project. Gonna take a few bills here.
To paraphrase: "show me the money..."

This fundage is to commission a model builder to construct a master of ("ship type here"), for subsequnet making a casting mold; 3D drawings, detail sketches, etc would be requisite; "half down, half on delivery" is common (escrow terms or whatever), but that is entirely up to the parties involved (buyer, artist, broker).
For someone like REL, Thomas Sasser, or Cobywan, it is gonna take a few more bills to make it happen, cuz they is worth it--thus the requirement for the budget/commission terms to begin with.

2.
Only then do production considerations become relevant. Who is going to maintain and operate the molds of the base kit? Who pays for materials? Who is making the decals? Who shoots the resin details upgrades (if any)?
Fact is that the artist who makes the master(s) make their living making masters, not cranking out the copies for the fanboys. Pretty obvious really. This is where McDaniel Models fell apart.

3.
Finally, who is going to take mercantile responsibility (selling to the public) to bring this package together for market? Who holds inventory? Who bags "this decal sheet" with "those resin parts count", with that "vacform sheet", packs it, processes payment, and then mails it out? Who processes returns and damage claims? Whose account pays for all this?
All these must be answered in turn.


Now then, I would also point out that there are many trek models already available.

Polar lights makes some dandy 1/1000 TOS fed and klink CAs. This also covers the fed DD, Tug, and with the PNT resin upgrade, the fed DN.
It would be really easy to make a vacform klink tug conversion.


There is also a nice resin Rommie TOS warbird in 1/1000. The Johnny lightning mini is great OOTB.

A whole series of kzinti, lyran, orion, , freighters could be made DIY from paper and some resin detail bits. The software to make your own paper card models is out there for free. Do not make the mistake of dismissing paper models with a frenchman's wave, some serious advancements have been made recently in paper modeling, and the shape of most of the SFB ships is angular, and blocky, very adaptable to cardstock.

Paper models can be printed out at home and overlaid onto styrene/basswood frame (cores, skeletons, whatever), and bondo/puttied to shape.

Once primed and painted, you can't tell it is not "plastic"...

There is a way; are you ready to go there?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 12:14 pm: Edit

I'd like a link to this paper modeling software, please.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 02:13 pm: Edit

Zzzzzzzz


Way more information than I have time to process.

I cleaned out the topic which hadn't had a post in years, and noted that if a model company wants to talk to me, I'll answer, and that if a gamer wants models done, he can go find a model company to do them. I have WAY too many projects to go chasing down something of arguably minimal interet.

By Brad Hodges (Treadhead) on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 02:16 pm: Edit

Ask nicely and ye shall recive--

pepakura util (shareware, but you should pay them if you like it):
http://www.tamasoft.co.jp/pepakura-en/

tutorial:
http://www.ericksmodels.com/paper/step0.html

google:
http://www.google.com/search?q=paper+model+design

100 pre-done paper models to get you started:
http://www.creativecloseup.com/100-exceptional-free-paper-models-and-toys

Remember that paper can be used to create basic SFB hull shapes (over basswood core, styrene "skeleton" for more support).
For curves, complex curves, saddle shapes (say the ISC ships), floral foam can be layered onto the basswood/styrene core, cut to crude shape, then formed with a rasp/file/sanding block; once bondo/putty is applied and feathered/sanded, primer sprayed on, it is very solid, smooth, yet still lightweight.
Details like hull paneling can be drawn on with pencil, or scribed in, using thick labelmaker tape as a guide/rule.
Resin/photoetch details can be then be added in addition to dry transfer decals, paint, oil wash etc.

Check out the hobbytalk.com, and starshipmodeler.com forums for more how-to.
ARC forum is also good.

Watch sanding on resin and bondo. It most certainly IS toxic.

These skills we all learned in kinderagarten/1st grade, so I figger it is like riding a bike. Just get organized, and get to work, and you will turn out good work in no time.

Point is you do NOT have to be a "professional modeler", nor loaded with cash to produce very nice static models on your kitchen table.

My advice is to almost always try something "just for fun" BEFORE trying to go "for keeps". A "test run"/"dress rehearsal" is an invaluable tool in modeling, and costs little compared to benefit.

Also remember that there are several good artists on the forums who do custom commissions for reasonable fees--if you can get on their work schedule; they are busy guys by definition.

By Brad Hodges (Treadhead) on Friday, December 26, 2008 - 01:36 am: Edit

Two Trek paper models:

Relaint:
http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~sf-papercraft/Gallery/reliant/reliant.html

Refit-E:
http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~sf-papercraft/Gallery/enterpriseA/enterprise.html

main site:
http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~sf-papercraft/Gallery/Gallery.html

By Brad Hodges (Treadhead) on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 07:43 pm: Edit

External link to Paragon Cadmodels- Really cool paper ST models =

http://www.freewebs.com/paragon19/startrek.htm

External link to photos of completed Paragon Cadmodels =

http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h123/strangename19/STXI/?start=0

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 09:35 pm: Edit

SVC, maybe you could make a deal with this guy to design SFB cruisers and you print and sell them in packs?

I would SO buy them! (If in buget)

By Sean O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 11:43 pm: Edit

Those cardstock starships are sweet! I'm curious to know if the Kyoceras can print on cardstock? If so, then Loren's idea would seem to fit well with ADB's print-on-demand strategies. Just my .02 quatloos.

I'd certainly buy a D7.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 12:17 am: Edit

If they can't do the clasic ships ADB has pleanty of originals to do. I'd be perfectly happy with the BCH class for the Feds and Klinks. Heck, why not just do that for all the races?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 01:42 pm: Edit

We can print on 90# index. I think we can print on 110# index. We can, I think, print on 10 point.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Friday, October 28, 2016 - 08:18 pm: Edit

So I know some of you all have kids like me (my youngest are 7yr old).

So in the Target X-mas catalog (or maybe ToysRUs) they are selling RC drones w/ an Enterprise wrapped around it.

So that got me thinking, conversion kits for SFB:

Think of it:
Fed DN
Fed BCH
Fed NCL
Kli C9
Kli B10
Kli C7
etc.

Ooooo... haha