The draft rules below aren't 100% complete, but are where I'm headed.
They are completely OPTIONAL so players of FC, ACTASF, and Starmada can continue to IGNORE the fussy rules that SFB players use.
But those who WANT such rules can have them.
I cannot really change, delete, simplify, or abstract anything more than I have as this is "universe conformity" stuff, but being optional, nobody has a reason to complain. If you don't like them, just ignore them.
The reason to send it to you is to make sure we get all of the various sub-lists complete and have a set of rules that are clear and do not generate questions. Well, at least no questions other than thinly-disguised appeals to change the rules, which won't happen. The rules limit you to one DN per 12 ships and that's not going to change. The rules require you to complete one block of 12 before you get access to another set of limited ship types, and there's no point in the rules if we don't require that. So, let those who WANT the SFB-style rules work to get these "right" and those who hate the whole idea just say to themselves "I am going to ignore that stuff" and not waste our time with complaints.
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ACTASF FLEET DOCTRINE RULES
FC FLEET DOCTRINE RULES
STARMADA FLEET DOCTRINE RULES
Revised 3pm 21 Feb 2013
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These rules reflect how the "real" Star Fleet (and the fleets of the other empires) deployed and used their ships. Players may choose to use, modify, or ignore them as they will. Any given tournament judge may announce that his tournament is "historical" and will use these rules, or he may choose to ignore such an announcement (and these rules) perhaps using the term "open format" to clarify the status to players.
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These rules are based on Star Fleet Battles rule (S8.0) and reflect that while an empire with hundreds of ships may include a certain number of each type, in most cases these are distributed more or less evenly and not concentrated in one area. An "open format" player could choose to build an entire fleet of dreadnoughts, while a "historical" player faces limits reflecting that the national fleet command has parceled out the dreadnoughts: one to each admiral.
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Note: The rules below refer to some types and variants which have yet to be added to ACTASF, FC, and/or Starmada but which are due for eventual inclusion. If you see mention of a ship you don’t have, just ignore it.
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The rules below refer to limits based on the total number of ships, not points. In effect, this encourages players to include a mix of all sizes of ships (frigates, destroyers, cruisers) in their fleet, which was the standard historical pattern. It was extremely rare to see a fleet consisting only of large ships. It was somewhat less rare to see a fleet consisting mostly of smaller ships, particularly when assigned to defend a sector.
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COMMAND LIMITS
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The games Star Fleet Battles and Federation & Empire make extensive use of command ratings and command limits. The result is a limit to the size of a fleet of about 12 ships which is a reflection on what those game systems can handle. Federation Commander, A Call to Arms Star Fleet, and Starmada ignore such things entirely (and routinely handle fleets of 20 ships or more).
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The rules below reflect the general idea of a 12-ship block, but players are perfectly welcome to say that they have combined two or more blocks for this particular battle so there is no limit (other than assigned point value). If you have 13 ships, then (for purposes of these rules) you have one block of 12 ships and one block of one ship (i.e., you must completely "fill" one block of 12 before starting another). A block of one ship can have one of whatever a block of 12 can, but obviously cannot have one of each type since (after all) it is a block of one ship. A block of six ships (part of a task force of 18 ships) could indeed consist of one dreadnought, one police cutter, two escorts, one scout, and one free trader and be completely integrated into the other block. (The rules on "block of 12 ships" apply only to determining how many of each type of ship you can have, and have no impact on how you operate the ships in combat.)
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BLOCK LIMITS
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These rules reflect that the "leader" and "special" versions of any class are fairly rare and have a specific purpose. If you use more of them in your fleet then some other fleet will be at a disadvantage because you stole all of their specials.
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No block can have more than:
@ one Battleship (any variant thereof);
@ one DN (including DN, DNH, DNG, DNL, C8, C5, C9, C10, Condor, Vulture, etc.);
@ one BCH (including BCH, C7, NovaHawk-K, RoyalHawk-K, KillerHawk, etc.);
@ two scouts
@ two escorts.
@ one police cutter
@ one auxiliary (armed priority transport, free trader, prime trader, etc.)
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SQUADRON LEADERS
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To have a CC/CB/CCH, you must have two heavy cruisers. (You can substitute NCAs for CAs and NCCs or CCHs for CCs, and mix the types.)
Command Cruisers include CC, CB, CCH, D7C, D6C; Romulan SuperHawk, RoyalHawk-A, and NovaHawk-A.
CAs include KR, K7R, D6, D7, E7, BC.
NCAs include D5W, FireHawk, RegentHawk.
Klingons mix D7s and D6s all the time.
Light cruisers and war cruisers cannot be substituted for heavy cruisers.
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To have a CWL, you must have two other CWs (including any variants). You can substitute CLs for CWs. Rare CL-leaders can be substituted for the CWL. (CW includes Federation NCL, Klingon D5, Romulan SP, Gorn HDD, Kzinti CM.)
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To have a DWL, you must have two other DWs (or variants of DW hulls). You can substitute DDs for DWs. (DW includes Federation FFB, Klingon F5W, Romulan SkyHawk and K5W, Kzinti BFF, Gorn BDD.)
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The Star Fleet Universe has a couple of frigate leaders (Klingon F5L and E6), and these can be treated in the same way (each leads two frigates). Frigates include Klingon F5, E5, and E4 (which can be mixed); Romulan SeaHawk, K5R, K4R; Kzinti FFH and FFK.
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Special Klingon Rule: You cannot have a Klingon F5L unless you have two F5s. Klingons can substitute E4s for F5s. They can substitute F5WLs for F5Ls. Klingons can use an F6 as either an F5L or a standard DW.
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Special Federation Rule: The Federation has some DDL destroyer leaders and FFL frigate leader which are not command variants but plasma-armed combat variants. As such, even though called leaders, these are standard warships.
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Special Romulan rule: The JayHawk battle frigate can be used as a frigate, frigate leader, or destroyer, but not as a destroyer leader.
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Special Gorn Rule: You can treat the DD as either a destroyer (substitute for BDD war destroyer) or a frigate. There is a Gorn DDL which can lead DDs but which cannot be substituted for a BDD in a squadron of BDDs.) You could have a Gorn BDL leading two DDs, two BDDs, or a BDD and a DD. There is a Gorn frigate which is a police ship.
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SPECIAL SHIPS
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Drone combat variants (such as the F5D), fast ships, and commando ships are interchangeable with standard warships of the same hull type.
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Freighters cannot be included in fleets but a scenario might define that a fleet is protecting or attacking freighters.
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Bases are normally defined by a scenario. Players can only include a base in their forces if they are defending a fixed locality such as a planet.
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There are a number of "limited production warships" in the universe, such as the OK6 (there was only one of those), and players may not have more than one of each "rare" ship.
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A current list of such ships available in ACTASF includes: OK6.
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FUTURE ADDITIONS
These include: carriers, fighters, minesweepers, drone bombardment ships, gunboats, gunboat tenders, maulers, tugs, transport variants of warships, X-ships, Andromedans, auxiliary ships, penal ships, and diplomatic ships. Fleet doctrine rules for these will be provided if and when they are added to ACTASF.
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EPOCHS
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The Star Fleet Universe covers a recorded history of more than 200 years, but mostly focuses on the 18 years of the General War (the largest historical conflict, as it involved all of the empires). Star Fleet Battles and Federation & Empire have extensive rules assigning every ship type an availability date. Players of Starmada, A Call to Arms Star Fleet, and Federation Commander simply ignore this and use any ship they want.
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Players who want to use the official SFB/F&E dates can easily obtain the SFB Master Ship Chart or F&E Ship Information Table and use it. (Avoid doing this while operating heavy machinery.)
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Players who want a middle ground might consider this concept.
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PRE-GENERAL WAR: Can use DN, CA, CL, DD, FF, and variants thereof.
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EARLY GENERAL WAR: Add DNL, CCH, CW, DW, and variants thereof.
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LATE GENERAL WAR: Add DNH, BCH, NCA, and variants thereof.
====END====

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 05:20 pm: Edit

CC requires two OTHER CA.

Add KC9R to unique list.

thanks to Tony Thomas.

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Thanks to Dal Downing

Gorn CM and CS are NCAs.

Tholian PCs are frigates.

Add TK5 to unique ships.

By Ed Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 06:18 pm: Edit

Steve is the rule on CCs just in the context of the 12 ship block or does it apply to general use. I had thought that the S8 rule was you had to fulfill the squadron, 2 CAs, before additional leaders could be added.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 06:28 pm: Edit

Will the fleet doctrine rules be tailored for each game, or will it be a single set of rules for all three systems?

If the former, perhaps cases like the Middle and Early Years, M81, the Andromedans, and/or the playtest Omega empires could be covered here, if not quite yet for the other two games.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 06:53 pm: Edit

CCs don't really have anything to do with blocks of 12, but with other CAs.

Scout is defined as any ship with a scout trait or special sensor. A D6D is a scout, not a drone combat variant.

Escort is a ship with aegis. An E4 Escort is not an escort as it doesn't have aegis.

For now I'm writing one set of rules but at the end there will be tailoring for each game. Matthew may want to omit any ship not yet in ACTASF for example.

By Ed Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 07:16 pm: Edit

Just trying to get a handle on it, seems then that a CC could not be used without having 2 CAs in the same game.

By Douglas E. Lampert (Dlampert) on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 09:11 pm: Edit

The presented rule is noticably more restrictive on leader varients than the SFB rule, but this may well be intentional since this is a simplified rule for a set of game systems without command limits.

"One leader of each class, but then you need two followers of the equivalent size prior to adding the next leader" is noticably more complicated than "Each leader must have at least two followers". And without the limits on fleet size that SFB has and the limits on BCH year of availability the ability to have a CC without any CA is less neccessary.

I'm actually surprised that the BB limit isn't simply subsumed into the DN limit.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 11:25 pm: Edit

BB limit is my gift to Matty's desire to sell minis.

Yes, the leader rule is simpler.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, February 22, 2013 - 07:01 pm: Edit

May I propose that the one Police and one Aux rule allow one to substitute for the other, thus allowing for two POL / no Aux or no POL / two Aux?


Garth L. Getgen

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, February 22, 2013 - 11:20 pm: Edit

Not a way I want to go, but I'll think about it.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Saturday, February 23, 2013 - 01:22 am: Edit

For games like FedCom and (especially) ACTASF, where points-value-driven fleets are very common, the ability to use multiple smaller "filler" ships would be appreciated.

Sometimes if the math won't add up to allow another "warship" like a FF without leaving points unspent (and factored into victory points later, if the players even bother), a pair of tiny ships can be had and used on the table.

Obviously, the Doctrine rules could be ignored, but it would be neat if the rules leave the wiggle-room needed to accommodate the "pick-up game" play style.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 23, 2013 - 06:29 am: Edit

I don't think that situation comes up often enough to create a loophole players can drive a truck through.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Saturday, February 23, 2013 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Understood. Every group's style is different and you have to cover for the masses.

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Saturday, February 23, 2013 - 09:54 pm: Edit

Quoth Garth:
"May I propose that the one Police and one Aux rule allow one to substitute for the other, thus allowing for two POL / no Aux or no POL / two Aux?
"

Steve, some small justification for allowing 2x POL. The fleet box comes with two POL minis - it'd be nice to use them both.

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Saturday, February 23, 2013 - 09:56 pm: Edit

Heh... then again,
The Fleet Box is 16 ships. That's a 12 ship group and a four ship group.
the second group of four can use all the shipsthat don'e fit in the original grouping... so ignore my previous comment.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 23, 2013 - 11:38 pm: Edit

Wrong topic, Tony. This is FC. ACTA is down yonder.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 04:37 pm: Edit

Been mulling this. The first part isn't doing what I want it to, and nobody likes it. So MAYBE we replace this
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@ one Battleship (any variant thereof);
@ one DN (including DN, DNH, DNG, DNL, C8, C5, C9, C10, Condor, Vulture, etc.);
@ one BCH (including BCH, C7, NovaHawk-K, RoyalHawk-K, KillerHawk, etc.);
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with this:
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Two "command ships" which could be battleships, dreadnoughts, heavy battlecruisers, heavy command cruisers, or command cruisers, or any combination thereof. If a command cruiser is chosen, it is the Battle force flagship and has no requirement for additional heavy cruisers.
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Another possible change, replace
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@ one police cutter
@ one auxiliary (armed priority transport, free trader, prime trader, etc.)
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with
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@ two non-naval units, which could be police cutters, prime traders, free traders, or priority transports.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 06:33 pm: Edit

The small units rule works better this way, for me (and the groups I've played in). It allows two Pols, or a Pol and an Armed Cutter, which I've done many a time in FedCom pickup games.

There is a great preponderance of DNs and BCs in ACTASF, due to the minis box-mix and the fact that it's a minis-only game, so some folks from that crowd might cry foul at not getting to use a notable percentage of their minis, but the SFU S8 setting is what it is.