topic open

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 01:22 pm: Edit

The rules for the Carnivons and Paravians are in Captain's Log 48. Also included are a heavy cruiser and destroyer for each empire.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 10:40 pm: Edit

It'll be interesting to see how the two factions will match up with, or rather against, their traditional neighbours/enemies in FC rather than SFB.

For the Paravians, they have a very different type of PPD to try and deal with to rimward, but neither the Gorns nor ISC have the kind of enveloper, sabot, or other such plasma torpedo options to present here. So, one could argue that the Paravians are the least affected of the "eastern" Alpha Octant powers by the transition, since the Quantum Wave Torpedo isn't really losing much in the way of functionality from one game system to another. Plus they'd have even more flexibility in arming their QWTs, as they have that much more reserve power to throw about during the course of each turn of play.

Although I suppose the inverse is the case for the Carnivons. Faced with three neighbours (or four, if you count the WYNs) which can run and gun with their reserve power in FC, the need to plan out Disruptor Cannon arming cycles might make things interesting for them. Heel Nippers may prove to have different pros and cons here, given the way that FC impulses (and damage control ratings) are set up. And while the Death Bolt is a much more standardized weapon in FC, so are the drones (and rack types) they will be used against. The differences in DB-ESG interaction may be worth watching out for here, too.

Plus, there is the question of how either faction may fare against the Andromedans. The "burn-through" effect against PA Panels might allow the Carnivons to pile on the hurt against a target mothership in a single turn to a greater extent than their disruptor bolt-armed rivals, but they could choose to alternate DC fire on each turn and press the offensive instead. While I wonder how the Paravians might be best advised to go after any Andros infesting their own space (or trying to get to their intended victims first).

By Sean Johnson (Seanxor) on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 - 04:12 pm: Edit

I liked these two empires when introduced last year. I also really liked the Peladine from Captain's Log 50. I remember reading somewhere there is the possibility of making e-packs, but what about a Lost Empires Attack?

I know I would really love to get full color ship cards, counters, and scenarios for these empires.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, April 16, 2015 - 10:51 am: Edit

Maybe in time but the next product is 6-12 months away and whatever product is next is 12-18 months after that.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 12:32 pm: Edit

In light of the Peladine preview in Captain's Log #50 and the Borak preview in Captain's Log #51, would it be appropriate to expand the role of this thread to cover those two sets of playtest factions? Or is it better to instead put the Peladine and Borak into a separate "phantom/shadow/[whatever] empires" thread?

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 08:15 pm: Edit

This probably works as good as anything else. Considering that the Peladine and Borak are not simulator empires (like the Frax), I see no reason to not consider them "Lost Empires", also. Granted, the Peladine and Borak never made it as far as the Carnivons and Paravians, but the fact of the matter is all four are actual empires that are gone by the time shown in Federation Commander.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 08:27 pm: Edit

In that case, I'll post here for now, and defer to ADB if another thread appears later on.


For my part, looking at the Borak Ship Cards made me think of what Rick Smith and I did up for the Probr Heavy Cruiser in the first incarnation of the Omega Playtest Rulebook. While the smaller "single-hull" Probr ships are okay to orient in "portrait" mode, it works better for the "double-hull" ships to switch to "landscape" mode. For example, this is the playtest Squadron Scale Ship Card for the Probr Accentuation Cruiser (a support variant of the Probr CA).

Of course, the "landscape" view had already been used for certain Andromedan Ship Cards in FC: War and Peace - such as the Conquistador + Cobra combo.

On a purely personal level, I might one day prefer to see any future Borak Ship Cards done so that the orientation of the various "side" boxes and graphs be set to "landscape" mode, to match what has been done in CL51 with the actual ships themselves.

But it's not something I'd want to make any sort of fuss over. If the current Borak layout works well enough, that's fine too.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 12:05 am: Edit

The Peladine had very few ships prior to being conquered by the Lyrans.

The Borak did have a number of ships in the early years period before being conquered by the Hydrans.

Both Empires have far more ships available as simultator only and in my opinion could be considered as Lost Empires.

However.

Neither empire has been published except in playtest and could presumably not be, for what that's worth.

Apart from the, I could see them being used as lost empires.

By Sean Johnson (Seanxor) on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 11:17 pm: Edit

Are there any plans to release any of the Lost Empire ships as an E-pack? I have the Captain Log's they appear in, but I much prefer the epacks because they are in color and have counters. If there are no plans, I will just photocopy and laminate the black and white ones, but if an epack is coming I will hold out for that.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 12:22 am: Edit

Alternatively, if the rules were deemed to still need more playtesting before they could be locked in, could an option be to assemble the material from Captain's Log into a "Lost Empires Playtest Pack", akin to those currently available for Omega and the LMC?

And if so, would it be better to offer more Ship Cards for fewer empires (say, four for two), or to do fewer for more (say, two for four) instead?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 12:41 am: Edit

Send me an email and I will get it done. Jean wants stuff to upload.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 12:02 pm: Edit

Got the email.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, June 23, 2019 - 11:34 am: Edit

Did we ever do the Epacks for the Paravians, Borak. Carnivons, and Peladine or do I need to put those on the to do list? Given what is in Caplog they're half done anyway.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, June 23, 2019 - 11:41 pm: Edit

The Federation Commander: Lost Empires Preview Pack includes three Carnivon and three Paravian Ship Cards, plus the rules needed to fly them. (There are a few items posted in this discussion I was hoping could be reviewed if/when the time came to consider the "lost empires" once again, though I defer to the experts in these cases.)

There are no ePacks available in FC for either the Peladine or the Borak as of yet. (As noted further up the thread, I might suggest any future Borak Ship Cards to be switched more fully to "landscape" mode, akin to some of the Andromedan and Probr Ship Cards out there.)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 12:50 am: Edit

There are more ideas than time but I plan to do a PDF empire pack with eight ships (each) for the Borak, Peladine, Carnivons, and Paravians at various points over the next year.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 03:50 pm: Edit

Sounds promising.

In ePack terms, would a "double-size" ship (such as a battleship) count as 2 ships in terms of space, or is that more of an issue for print releases?

Also, would it be possible to format the ePacks in such a way that one could order a print copy - perhaps in "low toner" mode - from the ADB storefront, as was done for the playtest Omega and LMC preview packs?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 10:21 pm: Edit

A double size card would count as two cards in laminated print. In a PDF it can be anything we want. Eight is mostly a function of workload.

A black and white print copy could be made but if you want color print do it yourself.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Black and white is what I was thinking of, though I should have been clearer in my previous post.


Also, a note for future consideration:

The fleet repair dock rules in Captain's Log #49 has the FRD's repair capacity from SFB abstracted into an increased damage control capacity marked on the Ship Card, coupled with an ability to use its damage control points to help repair docked ships as well as itself.

Were the Paravians to have their Raid Mothership and/or their Battleship Raid Mothership converted into FC, could the same be done with their Repair boxes here (as in, to mark them as Cargo boxes on the Ship Card, but to proportionally raise the Damage Control rating instead), so as to allow them to dock with an allied ship and help patch it up? Or would the repair capacity of either hull type even in SFB fall short of what would be required in order to warrant such a rule option in FC?

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 11:56 pm: Edit

You realize you are effectively arguing to make sure the Raid Mothership is not included, right?

There is no reason the Raid Mothership cannot use the FRD's repair rules. In fact, they were intended to be able to be used by bases, so were not intended to be only for the FRD. That option is definitely open.

On the other hand, is the Raid Mothership one of the 8 most important Paravian ships? Unless it is, such questions are highly premature.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 09:46 am: Edit

That might depend on whether the Paravians and Carnivons would expect to get only one ePack apiece for the foreseeable future, or if there is enough demand to warrant considering rolling out two (or more) ePacks per empire over time.

If the former is the case, there probably would be enough competition between "line ships" to make lobbying for the Raid Mothership's inclusion somewhat difficult.

But, if the latter could be an option, I might suggest offering each empire a "peacetime construction" ePack #1; a (mostly) "wartime construction" ePack #2; and a "support unit" ePack #3. In which case, each empire could have one of its "unique" variants added to one or more of these ePacks - say, for example, by adding the Raid Mothership to the first proposed Paravian ePack, and the death bolt cruiser to the first proposed Carnivon ePack.

Of course, I defer to ADB's wisdom in terms of which would be the best way forward, but I'd like to hope that there might be enough interest out there to warrant a more medium-term view regarding the "lost empires" from SFB Module C6.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 09:52 am: Edit

We won't know if there is enough demand for a second ePack until months after the first one.

Gary, calm down. We do not have to discuss every possible future every time something happens. Every one of us knows how many possibilities are behind door number three.

If somebody announces that his wife is expecting a child we do not have to discuss or even mention if his grandchildren will name their dog Aurora.

You always want to lock in stuff that cannot be decided until a year or more in the future.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 10:04 am: Edit

For all four, I would want to do General War ships so they fight even with the main game. I haven't really looked to see if we want to absorb the existing LE pack or force people to buy it.

As for eight ships, try this...

DN
BCH
CA
CW
DW
FF
Scout
Something else they need, including Paravians raid mother ship.

Not a battleship, save that and the CC, DNH, DNL, carrier, escort, gunboat, etc. as the shiny toys in pack 2 and 3.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 10:24 am: Edit

Sorry for rushing too far ahead of things.

The proposed list looks fine. I look forward to seeing how these ePacks shape up.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 11:35 am: Edit

Just do not expect them tomorrow.

One of them by the end of the year and the others sometime next year is the most I can predict and that's not a promise.

I tend to get distracted by the "shiny new idea". I haven't finished the CL53 flap list and then I have to do Gorn Art, the last bits of GURPS PD19, and ACTASF2, and already I want to spend time on Borders of Madness and the lost empires e packs.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 11:39 am: Edit

Since pretty much no one else any scouts yet, you can probably replace that with a tug or something else. Ooo! How about an escort? Everyone does have one of those ...

I do like the idea of giving everyone their own special ship that fits their operations.

Oh: one more note. In each of these modules, we need to include in the rules the following things:
- Rules for using the weapons in Orions/options.
- Rules for base weapons.
- Rules for general units (availability/weapons).
(In addition to the rules needed to actually run them, of course.)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Jean greenlighted the idea of doing the Carnivons "sometime this fall" but absolutely forbade me from doing anything on them before "the five easy pieces" are done.

(5EP = Gorn MSSB, Gurps PD19, ACTASF2, Ryan's Index, Merchants of the Federation playtestable PDF.)

I definitely want to include a scout and maybe a commando ship. The escorts can go into pack 2 with the carrier.