Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through April 20, 2022	1		12/17 11:04pm
	Archive through December 18, 2022	25		12/21 01:49am
	Archive through December 27, 2022	25		12/30 04:23pm

I got the Thunderbolt done, then the power went out. I did the Centurion using the battery pack for the computer and holding a flashlight in my teeth, but the power pack would not last long enough to do StarHawk. Anyway, progress.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, December 29, 2022 - 05:09 pm: Edit

Progress for Thursday: Starhawk, Pterodactyl, Aracnid. Corrected mistakes found in the previous gunboats.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, December 30, 2022 - 12:57 pm: Edit

To clarify, is the "default" Tholian PF Ship Card to be the variant with the web generators, or with the LS and RS phaser-3s instead?

Or to put it another way: regardless of which type is chosen to be on the "portrait" side, could it be possible to put one of each on the "landscape" side?

Also, if the web generator version is to be featured in FC at some point, might it be worth updating the Tholian Pinwheel rules to allow this Shapeways miniature to be used here? Or, once the relevant mission variants are brought over later on, this one also?

Actually, since there are distinct Pinwheel Ship Cards for certain types of Tholian starship, perhaps there could one day be two PF Pinwheel Ship Cards here: one with a web generator PF and two phaser-3 PFs (to match the first Shapeways miniature), and the other with one leader, one scout, and one web generator PF (to match the second one).

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, December 30, 2022 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Could each Tholian ship card include a side note on swapping the Ph-3s with webs? Kinda like how the LDR notes work on Lyran ship cards? That way any of the standard Tholian gunboats can be either version.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, December 30, 2022 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Such notes are messy. I'll figure something out.

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Friday, December 30, 2022 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Are we getting all 3 Hydrians Gunboats? Or just the Hellbore and Fussion models?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, December 30, 2022 - 09:33 pm: Edit

Maybe just fusion for now. Maybe fusion/hellbore on the back. One card in any case in the first product. In the boosters, you'll get everything.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, December 30, 2022 - 09:35 pm: Edit

Great progress today. I did the Orion, WYN, Seltorian, Vudar, and Banshee. (In all cases I have mentioned these are the front/single side of the card. I need to have that checked before I do the backs.) The only card/front not done is the Andro.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, December 31, 2022 - 08:40 pm: Edit

Hydran Howler PFs? Fi-Cons?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, December 31, 2022 - 09:59 pm: Edit

Eventually.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Saturday, December 31, 2022 - 11:24 pm: Edit

Unless you are only looking for Valkyrie fi-con gunboats (which I am actually all for), you'll need to wait for Fighters Attack to see the fi-cons.

And hopefully Howlers come with the SFB rule that says they can only be used if every player agrees.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Saturday, February 25, 2023 - 01:49 am: Edit

From Facebook -

Klaus Wachsmuth
Jean Sexton Beddow You may want to re-examine the Romulan Centurion. Its plasma torpedoes are marked as disruptors....

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 25, 2023 - 07:40 am: Edit

How did four different card checkers miss THAT?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, February 25, 2023 - 08:38 am: Edit

I'm glad to see this module hit the e-shelves!

That said, there are a few potential errata items I wanted to note:

-----

(5W2) Deployment: As noted on the Andromedan Adder Ship Card, each Andromedan PF takes up a single point of hangar bay capacity. However, over in Star Fleet Battles, the Andros have no equivalent of the Galactic (or Magellanic) "mech link refit"; the only variants permitted to operate external mech links are the Concretor and Immobilator monitors, which (at this time of typing) have yet to be converted to Federation Commander. Thus, should this rule be revised - or, perhaps a new "(5W2c)" rule added - in order to account for the particulars of Andromedan PF deployment?

Page 4: The historical note on gunboats notes how the advent of first-generation X-ships largely made the concept of attrition units obsolete - at least, so it appeared at first glance. However, it might be worth noting that the onset of the Andromedan War gave the gunboat (and the Federation F-111) a second lease on life; especially in terms of how they could be used to support ships assigned to chase down the Andromedan Rapid Transit Network.

Page 6: In keeping with the other Shapeways-supported gunboat images in this product, would it be possible to swap out the Tholian Arachnid PF with an image of that unit's Shapeways incarnation?

(5L1a): Over in Star Fleet Battles, Orion PFs are permitted to install Paravian quantum wave torpedoes and/or Carnivon disruptor cannons as optional weapons, while operating in their respective "lost empire" timelines. QWTs on PFs cannot be overloaded, yet DCs on PFs can be. (I had questions as regards the tracking arcs used for QWTs installed on Orion INTs and PFs over in this BBS thread.) Is the FC Lost Empires Preview Pack enough grounds to permit Buccaneers in FC to use these weapons at this time - or should this wait until, or unless, actual Ship Cards for the "lost empire" Paravian and Carnivon gunboats are added to the game system at a later juncture?

Page 7: The image used to illustrate the Andromedan Adder is of a Mobile Weapons Platform. (On a side note: are there plans to add an Adder flotilla sprue to the ADB Shapeways storefront?)

Page 8: With the Federation F-111 set to be offered in Hailing Frequencies #206, might there be enough blank space in this column to include an image of that unit's 285 scale Shapeways miniature?

(8GA1): This scenario is presently referred to as "Gunoat Patrol"...

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 25, 2023 - 02:15 pm: Edit

(5W2) Deployment: As noted on the Andromedan Adder Ship Card
FED COM DOESN'T USE MECH LINKS SO NOT IMPORTANT.

Page 4: The historical note on gunboats
I COULD HAVE DONE 16 PAGES OF HISTORICAL NOTES. I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE ME STOP.

Page 6: swap out the Tholian Arachnid PF with an image of that unit's Shapeways incarnation?
I COULDN'T FIND ONE HANDY.

(5L1a): Over in Star Fleet Battles, Orion PFs are permitted to install Paravian quantum wave torpedoes and/or Carnivon disruptor cannons
EMPIRES AND TIMELINES THAT ARE NOT IN FC. LET'S NOT CLUTTER THINGS.

Page 7: The image used to illustrate the Andromedan Adder is of a Mobile Weapons Platform.
I COULD NOT FIND AN ADDER PICTURE AND WILL FIX IT LATER IF I DO FIND ONE.
(On a side note: are there plans to add an Adder flotilla sprue to the ADB Shapeways storefront?)
WHOEVER IS DOING THE ANDRO MINIS CAN DO THAT ANY TIME.

Page 8: With the Federation F-111 set to be offered in Hailing Frequencies #206, might there be enough blank space in this column to include an image of that unit's 285 scale Shapeways miniature?
ONE MIGHT SUPPOSE. I AM NOT SURE WHERE ONE IS AT PRESENT.

(8GA1): This scenario is presently referred to as "Gunoat Patrol"...
FIXED.

By Sebastian Palozzi (Sebastian) on Friday, February 24, 2023 - 10:15 pm: Edit

The PF rules in Captain's Log #54 included a rule
(5W5) Tractor Beams. Was that dropped intentionally?

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, February 24, 2023 - 10:58 pm: Edit

What did it say?

But, probably. In SFB terms, these gunboats are only casual gunboats. There is no leader, so none of these gunboats have a tractor. And they aren't carried in-scenarios, either, so there's no need for host ships to have special tractor rules, either.

When leaders are added to the game, or if tenders are added, then gunboat specific tractor rules might be needed.

By Sebastian Palozzi (Sebastian) on Saturday, February 25, 2023 - 05:16 am: Edit

This is the rule:
(5W5a) A gunboat can use negative tractor (5D6a) even if it has no tractor beam box on the ship card.
(5W5b) A gunboat held in an enemy tractor beam and unable to break free at a time when all other units friendly to the gunboat have left the scenario is considered to have been captured.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 25, 2023 - 06:49 am: Edit

Those are good and should have been there. I don’t know how they got missed.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Saturday, February 25, 2023 - 01:05 pm: Edit

Well, since it is still PDF-only, that should hopefully be an easy fix.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 25, 2023 - 02:09 pm: Edit

I have added the tractor rules to 5W and have corrected the DISR/PL-F thing on the Centurion card. I think I'll wait a bit, maybe a month, before sending an update to the stores and see what else you find.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Saturday, February 25, 2023 - 07:53 pm: Edit

What a fantastic product, love how it really shows the strengths of each game’s approach to the setting.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, February 26, 2023 - 01:04 pm: Edit

To put it another way: from the Andromedan perspective, Adders (and MWPs) are effectively "satellite ships", albeit very small ones. In which case, rather than follow the "standard" Alpha Octant deployment rules, perhaps they could instead be tied to the hangar capacity - or lack thereof - of any Motherships present in the force?

As in, if Force A has a lone Intruder, yet force B has a Python and a Reconnaissance Cobra. Force A could be permitted to take as many as six gunboats, subtracting from the Intruder's hangar capacity in the process. (So taking six Adders would leave room for a Mamba, a Cobra, or two Vipers.) Whereas force B, with no hangar capacity, would not be able to take any gunboats at all.

Or, if letting a Mothership take a full flotilla's worth of gunboats based on hangar capacity alone is deemed too unbalancing, perhaps FC could limit their deployment to two per "full-sized" satellite ship, again up to the hangar capacity of the Mothership(s) involved? So in this instance, "Force A1" would not be able to take enough "full-sized" satellite ships in the Intruder's hangar bay to permit more than four Adders (by taking two Cobras and/or Vipers).

In short, by clarifying that Andromedan gunboats count as "satellite ships" (as they do over in SFB), this would give the Andromedans a more empire-appropriate set of pluses and minuses as regards their gunboat deployments.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Sunday, February 26, 2023 - 03:53 pm: Edit

I don't remember seeing this. But is it known when the hard copy will be made available?

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Sunday, February 26, 2023 - 04:55 pm: Edit

SVC posted on the Federation Commander Boards, eventually, the hold up seems to be the counters which they don't plan to print this year.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, February 27, 2023 - 12:17 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

How did four different card checkers miss THAT?

---

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, February 27, 2023 - 02:01 pm: Edit

ADD TO RULES

(5W2c) Andromedan Adders are deployed differently than any other gunboats. While there may be no more than six in any given force, they are not restricted by the number of ship present as described in (5W2a). Instead they use Andromedan satellite ship rules (5V1) for carriage and deployment. Each Adder requires one hangar point (5V1a2).

Mike, Steve P, Jean, and I also missed the Bobcat phaser number mistake.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 - 10:33 am: Edit

The Adder rule update looks good, thank you kindly.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 - 11:04 am: Edit

Mike West did the Adder update.