FC: Fighters Attack
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation Commander: FC: Fighters Attack
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Archive through April 21, 2022  25   04/22 12:05am
Archive through August 14, 2022  25   08/16 06:18am
This is the development topic for the FIGHTERS ATTACK product. See the carriers printed in various COMMUNIQUE issues and the fighter rules that were in COMMUNIQUE.
By John Pepper (Akula) on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 12:52 am: Edit

Mike:

The Carrier Escort Chart shows the:
CVT, D6V, C8V, B10V all carried Z-D/P

Most of the other races had at least a couple ships that mixed the superiority fighter with assault fighters. For the Romulan's pretty much every carrier has a mix.

I also suspect there is a gap between the intended mix of fighters in the game material and how groups actually play/played SFB. Seems like I always faced far more F-14/15/Z-D than the game material would otherwise indicate.

"There is no D7B or (outside the MY setting) D7. Instead, only the D7K is used and call it a day."
This tends to be applied on kind of a haphazard basis. There is now MY versions of these ships AND you now have leader versions of stuff that is less different than some of the refits. Not complaining here just think there is some confusion around what actually makes SFB a slow/difficult game to play vs. what doesn't.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 03:45 am: Edit

I can arrange for PDFs of any fighter you want, but laminated cards are incredibly expensive, most players of FC don't want 8 or 12 Fed fighters, one will be fine. There is no way to put the fighters on a carrier card (no room) but I can see giving you a laminated card of one type and a few PDFs of anything else you want.

By Steve Stewart (Stevestewart) on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 08:08 am: Edit

I'd certainly be interested in additional fighter PDF cards.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 10:44 pm: Edit

>> PDFs of any fighter you want, but laminated cards are incredibly expensive

For the less popular fighters (or any less popular unit) couldn't one just buy the PDF, print it out, and then have it laminated at the local copy shop?

--Mike

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 16, 2022 - 06:18 am: Edit

Sure you can. It will cost more than I could sell you a standard issue card, but you can do that with any of the newsletter ships now.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Wednesday, June 04, 2025 - 02:42 pm: Edit

SVC,

Has a card for the Fed CVA, NAC/ACL, DEA, and DWA been produced in a PDF form?

Can I arrange for PDFs of the Fed f-14 and A-10 be made?

Has rules for the MRS and SWAC be published?

Today I and my oldest grandson are learning how to play FC.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, June 04, 2025 - 03:13 pm: Edit

Joe, send me an email so it gets into my TODO list.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, June 04, 2025 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Got it

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, June 05, 2025 - 12:44 am: Edit

Quote:

Has a card for the Fed CVA, NAC/ACL, DEA, and DWA been produced in a PDF form?

Can I arrange for PDFs of the Fed f-14 and A-10 be made?

Has rules for the MRS and SWAC be published?



A few notes on these:

-----

Firstly, there are a number of "escort" hulls for a variety of Alpha Octant empires currently in the game system; some of them are listed in this PDF.

However, not only is Aegis fire control implemented quite differently here than over in SFB, the way this is done means that there is no split between "limited" and "full" Aegis here.

So, for example, there is a Federation DWE Ship Card in Communique #79 - but there is no separate "DWA" version of this hull, nor indeed for any other escort ship which has been ported over to date.

-----

Also, given that Gunboats Attack exists, and that things in FC are somewhat less "strict" than in the "standard" SFB timeline, I might wonder:

Rather than giving the Federation - or, indeed, any other Alpha Octant empire - a CVA Ship Card, might it be better to provide them with a space control ship instead?

By which, in the case of the Feds, I mean the SCSA (R2.32A) from SFB Module R2; the "conjectural" variant with past patrol ships instead of A-20s.

I'm trying to recall whether or not the Federation were ever given a playtest A-20 Ship Card or not. But, there have been concerns voiced in the past as to whether they, the F-111, or indeed any Alpha Octant size-2 fighter ought to be made to exist in FC terms.

And when it comes to size-1 fighters, the Fed SCSA would still somehow have 24 of them! (I had to double-check the SSD on this; I had been under the impression that it "only" got 12, akin to what most other Alpha SCSs have deployed...)

And even then, I might wonder if it would be best to keep them all at the "standard" (F-18-ish) Federation fighter type currently in FC, rather than trying to port the F-14 (or the A-10, or any other such fighter) over to this game system.

For that matter, I don't know if I'd be in a hurry to see multi-role shuttles or SWACs appear here either.

-----

That said, Gunboats Attack does not include rules for fast patrol ship tenders. In essence, the PFs currently in the game system are "casual" in deployment terms.

Even if a space control ship were to be drawn up in FC terms, there might be questions to answer, in terms of what (if anything) they would actually do in this game system.

Despite this, given that PFs have made it into FC, seemingly without ruffling too many feathers thus far, I might wonder if it was best to leverage them for the Federation here, rather than opening the "Third Way" box for the Feds in FC terms.

And, by extension, make it so that other Alpha empires could get their SCSs ported over in a similar fashion, should this be worth considering later on.

-----

So, in summary, rather than the Fed CVA, I might suggest the Feds get an SCSA Ship Card instead - but, one with 24 "standard" (F-18-ish) fighters (so no F-14s), and no MRS or SWAC options.

But, of course, I defer to ADB's wisdom in this regard - not least in terms of deciding what ought to be added to "vanilla" FC here, and which concepts might best be sent over to the so-called "Borders of Madness" instead...

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Thursday, June 05, 2025 - 11:28 am: Edit

F-14s make the Fed CVA fun. 24 F-18s are boring.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Thursday, June 05, 2025 - 02:20 pm: Edit

There are no rules planned for PFTs outside a potential Borders of Madness effort. I do not think that making any SCS ships would be a good idea for FC, particularly the Federation SCSA. It is ludicrously overpowered for the system. (One could argue it is overpowered for SFB, but its introduction date makes it irrelevant for most purposes.)

I expect that the main carrier classes that will be focused on are the CVA, CVS, CWV, and DWV. I don't know if all of that can be packed into an Attack! module and three Boosters, or if that format even works anymore. But those are the classes I expect to be the main focus.

Currently, the approach has been to flatten the fighters out into one fighter per empire. For the Federation, that is the F-18. I suppose you could convince Steve to allow the Feds to use the F-14 as a secondary fighter, but it would need to be strictly attached to the CVA. I don't know about the A-10, however. Maybe they'd use 12 F-14s and 12 F-18s. (Which, incidentally, is a completely legal and reasonable configuration in SFB.)

(Side note: I don't know if anyone will want the A-10, anyway. It will be slow with a single photon and a pair of drones. It will also be very difficult to reload, so they would likely be a single-use device that will be completely left behind in any quickly moving battle.)

But, again, that is the current direction. If Steve wants to change it up, it will get changed up. We just need to be careful to not let things get completely out of control.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, June 05, 2025 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Joe, it will be next week before I can look at it; email me Monday or Tuesday to remind me that by then I had forgotten to do it.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Friday, June 06, 2025 - 01:29 pm: Edit

SVC,

No worries. I am either having tooth pulled today or knee surgery on 6-10-2025. My body is showing its age, 72.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, June 06, 2025 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Orthopedic surgeons don't like you having dental work too close to their surgery due to the risk of infection in the joint.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Friday, June 06, 2025 - 04:03 pm: Edit

Thanks for the heads up. No dental work today just antibiotics and my dentist back on Monday. I called my surgeon to check. I was told can keep scheduled surgery.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Friday, June 06, 2025 - 04:24 pm: Edit

I have been absent for several years. Where is Gunboats Attach available at? I did see it listed as a product under FC.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, June 06, 2025 - 06:55 pm: Edit

It is on the pdf store

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Friday, June 06, 2025 - 09:01 pm: Edit

SVC,

Thanks. Purchased it.

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