I am thinking that it would be fun sometime to write a fiction story in which Olivette Roche interviews various official and unofficial sources regarding the question of why the Federation did not build PFs and the various uncomfirmed stories/theories/reports/rumors/myths of a few being built.

If you can want to recommend a source that Olivette might interview, feel free. If you want to write the interview yourself, give it a try.

Think of this as the equivalent of "investigative journalist delves into reports of captured UFOs at Area 51" and you'll get the point.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 18, 2026 - 04:26 pm: Edit

Petrick and I were just discussing a story (not yet written) in which crusading investigative journalist Olivette Roche gets to the bottom of the "Did Star Fleet build gunboats or not? What happened do them? Were illegal copies build from stolen blueprints? Did the WYN operate a flotilla of photon-armed Buccaneers trying to pretend they were Thunderbolts?" Did the Klingons build a few Thunderbolts from stolen plans for an infiltration mission that had to be cancelled when the Feds didn't actually build any? And what about the Annunaki of Niburu?"

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, August 18, 2026 - 05:12 pm: Edit

Steve,

Wasn’t there a covert decoy operation sponsored by the G.I.A. (Galactic Intelligence Agency) to fool the Klingons into believing that the Federation deployed multiple PF Flotillas on the Federation Klingon battle lines?

Using Modular Couriers as the hardware, all that the GIA need do was let the Klingons detect a few MOD Couriers at ranges for PF’s operations , and the Klingons couldn’t afford to risk exposing forward deployed units to PF raids.

Better yet, no self respecting Klingon commander could afford to admit he was fooled by a few skiffs posing as wolves.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 18, 2026 - 06:57 pm: Edit

Yeah, that too.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, August 18, 2026 - 11:26 pm: Edit

When the Darwin returned from the "dark future" timeline as outlined in Module C3A, most of the details acquired from the alternate timeline were heavily classified. No doubt to prevent the Andromedans of Y195 from learning about this "future" data and adjusting their strategies accordingly.

One of the details from said timeline was the Federation adoption of fast patrol ships in alt-Y198, as an act of desperation against the rising tide of Andromedan success.

Perhaps, at some point after Operation Unity - or, instead, after the "standard" timeline passed the date at which the "dark future" timeline was last recorded - the UFP might have declassified this information, or at least parts of it, to the general public.

But, in the meantime, it's possible that certain aspects of what exactly happened to the Darwin itself could have leaked past the point it should have, leading to all sorts of speculation as to what "really happened"...

-----

Speaking of alternate timelines:

There is the Reflection Universe from Module R4J , in which the Federal Imperium never developed the "Third Way", instead fielding Interceptors and PFs as soon as they were available.

Exactly how information from this timeline ended up in the Air Force data tapes has never been formally addressed.

That said, in the absence of the "true" details of the Darwin's return being made known, perhaps one of the wilder theories out there was that the ship which "returned" was not the original Federation ship, but rather its doppelganger from the Federal Imperium instead?

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Tuesday, August 18, 2026 - 11:46 pm: Edit

I suspect that the Federation had a number of gunboats, not counting purchased workboats.

I would expect that some were captured from neighbors, some purchased from, or gifted from, the Gorn, Kzinti, or the Orion Enclave (nerfed, no pirate options). All of these could be "leads" that Ms. Roche chases down for "proof" of her theories.

Then there would be units that the GIA purchases through the Orion Pirates (Not nerfed) for espionage missions. Just think how much fun one can get up to with cloaked gunships, Romulan, or Orion.

Of course, other than workboats, there would not be enough for non-published scenarios in SFB, this is more GURPS:PD stuff.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 19, 2026 - 03:39 am: Edit

You would never use a PF for espionage. The range is too short. Then again, maybe….

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, August 19, 2026 - 04:57 am: Edit

Would it not depend on the circumstances?

A Constitution class cruiser couldn’t use its administrative shuttles to deploy a covert force because the range and abilities of normal shuttles because the range limit of shuttles are even less than PF type gunboats.

But a workboat variant of a PF could work…

Perhaps there is yet another PF variant (very rare…) that some Empires use that have a Workboat endurance, possibly with some reduction of weapons?

Just a thought.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Wednesday, August 19, 2026 - 12:40 pm: Edit

In Canon SFU, the Federation continued using Skiffs when most other empires went over to primarily using Workboats.

One thing important (IMO) is that Skiffs have two NWO boxes (and two Cargo) where workboats don't have that flexibility; All four of their "Payload" boxes are cargo.

Would the Federation start building Workboats based on non-existent Gunboats? Maybe.

Should other empires have Workboats with two of the Cargo being replaced with NWO? Personally? I like that idea, but Workboats are perhaps too well established at this point to consider something so radical...

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 19, 2026 - 02:32 pm: Edit

To the Planet Delta Fria flew a cutter one fine day
Didn’t signal to the station, didn't have too much to say
No one dared to ask his business, no one dared to make a quip
The Federation cutter had a gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship
… It was early in the morning when he flew right past the moon
He came flying out of orbit, he arrived there much too soon.
"That's a Federation cutter", came a whisper from each lip
And the mech-link on his belly holds a gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship
… on this planet lived an pirate who was named Orion Red
Many cops had tried to take him and that many cops were dead
He was vicious and a killer, though a youth of twenty four
And the notches on his drone racks numbered one and nineteen more
One and nineteen more
… Now the cutter started turning, made it plain to folks around
Had a Federation warrant, wouldn't be too long in bound
He came here to take a pirate back alive or maybe dead
And he said he didn't care he was after Orion Red
For Orion Red
… Wasn't long before this story had reached Orion Red
But the pirate didn't worry, cops that tried before were dead
Twenty cops had tried to take him, twenty cops had made a slip
Twenty-one would be the cutter with the gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship.
Now the hours passed so quickly that the clock did seem to race
It was twenty past eleven when Red flew up into space
Folks were watchin' from the scanners, Everybody held their breath
They knew this cocky marshal was about to meet his death
About to meet his death.
… There was drone range in between them
When they turned to make their play
And the fierceness of the cutter is still talked about today
Orion Red had launched a shuttle when a photon quickly ripped
And the cutter’s hidden power was the gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship
… It was over in a moment and the folks had gathered 'round
There before them lay the wreckage of the pirate on the ground
Oh, he might have went on stealing' but he made one fatal slip
When he tried to fight the cutter with the gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship
… gunboat, gunboat
When he tried to fight the cutter with the gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 19, 2026 - 02:43 pm: Edit

Olivette interviews Star Fleet who say they never built any, not even prototypes, because of the "nobility of pilots" concept. They did build some "dummy" things originally to test mech-links but later to fool the enemy into thinking new ones would appear.

Olivette interviews and Rigelian industrialist who insists that the Martian Mafia that runs Star Fleet blocked gunboats to keep the budget going into fighter production on which their friends profited.

Olivette interviews a private shipyard which wanted to build workboat versions of the Thunderbolt.

Olivette interviews a guy whose face is in shadow as he says that "Area 71" has lots of captured ships including Kzinti and Gorn PFs bought legally under secret details. Gorn PFs could be programmed to fight like Centurions and Kzinti PFs could be programmed to fight like G1s, giving the opportunity for combat development.

Olivette interviews Star Fleet again, and they say that you have to remember gunboats were new technology and at the time everybody thought that existing fighters could cover the missions. By the time doubts were raised on how good an idea that was, the Federation would have been three years behind on gunboat technology and would never catch up.

Olivette interviews the Rigelian industrialist again who says that baloney, that Star Fleet had prototypes flying for development testing and was fully updated on the technology.

Olivette interviews a retired police admiral who says he really wished they had gunboats clipped to their cutters.

Olivette interviews an Orion who says that the prototypes were ordered destroyed but instead were shipped to the WYNs.

Olivette interviews a WYN who says that they had Bucanners trying to masquerade as Thunderbolts just to confuse the enemy.

Olivette interviews a Kzinti politician who says the Feds promised to sell photon-armed thunderbolts to the Kzinti allies but shut down the entire gunboat program just to block the technology transfer.

Olivette interviews a shadowy figure who talks about using Modular Cutters to fool the Klingons about gunboat deployments and that the Rigelians were so sloppy with security that the Klingons and Romulans had the blueprints and each built a few of their own for deception programs and those may have been sighted by Federation tracking stations who thought "wow, we did build them".

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Wednesday, August 19, 2026 - 11:16 pm: Edit

Olivette interviews a man claiming to be stranded time traveler from the future. He alleges that in his timeline the Federation did build gunboats, having overcome moral objections by replacing the human crew with autonomous AI designed by a brilliant engineer. Later, the AI gunboats rebelled against the Federation but a Prime Team was able to go back in time and alter the career path of the brilliant engineer so he became a board game designer instead. Thus, the universe was saved.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, August 20, 2026 - 09:03 am: Edit

A retired Star Fleet Engineer (well into his third career as a “Tri Video news Analyst Consultant”) is interviewed byOlivette claiming that Star Fleets “Real” intent is to develop, deploy and then exploit militarily a new class of “Heavy” PF’s that will instantly render all existing PFs obsolete.

He went on to claim that all official statements that such Heavy PFs are technologically “impossible” is window dressing and a “Screen” counter espionage operation.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, August 20, 2026 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Late word has it the Olivette Roche has dropped the PF story to pursue a rumor of a corpse.

Working title: “The Star Fleet Marine who never was” apparently yet another counter counter double decoy operation of the G.I.A. Intended to mislead Klingon offices of naval intelligence (not a real thing, apparently the Klingons O.N.I. Has a different name.) by staging a “accident” to a Federation Express Courier ship complete with a human cadaver dressed in a Star Fleet Marine uniform, with matching identification, personal effects and a hand cuffed brief case containing a full set of builders plans, test data and transcripts of flight data recorders (AKA, “also known as” black boxes.)

The Federation Express Courier, while old, was known to still be in service on the seventh fleet- Earth route that took it very near the Orion home world.

The crew and all but one passenger were successfully evacuated, but the lone casualty was a human courier said the be delivering a courtesy information data set to the 7th Fleet commander in the later years of the General War (after the widespread deployment of PFs to virtually all of the alpha quadrant except the Federation.)

The Orion Home world Police cruiser, being first on the scene after the evacuation of the couriers living survivors took over responsibility for the investigation, and as part of said investigation, used a Orion Police medical examiner, and a Orion Police crime scene investigation team to head the project.

The remaining parts of the ruined Federation Express Courier was then towed to the nearest Orion Police ship facility.

Several Tri-Video media companies are actively competing for rights to the story and announced prospective working titles including Death over Orion, true crime: the dead marine, and the Muder on the Federation Express Courier.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Saturday, August 22, 2026 - 11:37 am: Edit

Just as a point of order, the Federation does not need the Thunderbolt to have workboats. It basically has as many workboats as they want to make. They just use the Orion workboat.

Orion is part of the Federation. Orion workboats are predominately made by Orion proper, not pirates. (The pirates would be making actual Buccaneers, not weak workboats.) The Orion workboat *is* the Federation workboat.

Note that this causes interesting questions to be made: namely, if Orion has nothing to do with the pirates, why is their workboat design based on the pirate gunboat design? I imagine a lot of that is just glossed over, but that is definitely something an intrepid investigative reporter would want to look into ...

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, August 22, 2026 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Personally, I think it would have been interesting for the Orion Enclave to have "imported" the blueprints for the WYN workboat, as a less pirate-coded "civilian" hull to sell to the rest of the Federation.

Although, this would only have provided a further degree of separation rather than a clean break, since the WYNs themselves lean quite heavily on Orion design templates.

-----

On a separate note:

As was the case with the Federation in the Alpha Octant, their distant relatives over in the Federal Republic of Aurora chose not to deploy "volatile waro" Interceptors or PFs over in Omega.

While the FRA were the ones to invent "volatile warp" technology, they ended up selling it to the Mæsrons instead - who, in turn, passed this technology on to several other Omega empires.

It is as yet unclear as to whether or not workboats exist in Omega. But if they do, the FRA would find itself in the same situation as the Federation outside of the Orion Enclave, in terms of having to import "foreign" workboat types.

Well, technically Mæsron workboats would no longer be foreign starting in Y209, when the FRA becomes an autonomous member of the New Alliance.

In any case, I could imagine the Auroran free press going through some of the same discussions and speculations in Omega that their counterparts back in the Federation did over in Alpha.

Not least in light of the GSX Sakharov's pioneering voyages in the Y210s, through which the UFP and FRA would make de facto "First Contact" - to no doubt include each learning about the other's policy as regards their respective gunboat designs.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, August 22, 2026 - 12:26 pm: Edit

Mike? Federation citizens might also buy Kzinti or Gorn Workboats, much like US citizens frequently buy German or Japanese made cars?

Orion make workboats regarded much like DeLoreans were in the late 1980's because of the company president being busted for drugs? Or the partisan view of Teslas over the past year?

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, August 24, 2026 - 09:29 pm: Edit

I imagine you would find examples of all kinds of workboats in the Federation. Obviously, there would be tons of Kzinti and Gorn workboats. There would be many (though in more limited numbers) Klingon and Romulan workboats, too. You would likely see some WYN workboats running around, too. But I still think the most numerous workboat in the Federation is going to be the Orion workboat because it is the most easily accessible.

The Orion workboat is made inside the Federation. It would not be subject to import fees or other such restrictions. And you won't have the main markets of the other builders to contend with. They are present, accessible, and easier to get than any alternative than skiffs.

My main point, however, is just that there is no need to worry about making a "Federation workboat". No need for a Thunderbolt version or some other version shoe-horned in. There already is a Federation workboat in the game: it's just call the "Orion" workboat.

(Brief aside, I have a whole thing where I wanted to make a limited version of the WYN PF, not just workboat, that any world could make if they so chose, with it being a modular, freely available, unlicensed design. But, alas, it is not to be. Its workboat is just an unmodified WYN workboat.)

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 - 12:07 am: Edit

There really should be a generic work boat that multiple empires civilians used that “weighs in” at just under the BPV of the “racial” empires work boats.

An “economy” version similar to the modular courier skiff design.

We know that not all planets have exactly the same wealth, some are flush with money, others just barely scrape by.

Such a economy work boat might be 10% of anygiven empires work boats, while 50% of the Federation Work boats would be this generic version, and near the kzinti fed border 25% of the total work boats based on Kzinti models, same with Gorn Border, having 25% of all fed work boats being Gorn models.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 - 12:00 pm: Edit

That "generic" workboat is the WYN workboat. It is the smallest and lightest of all the workboats. There is a reason I picked it for my other effort.

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 - 03:23 pm: Edit

I think if there was a need for an "economy" version of workboats they would simply have resumed production of interceptors. The original interceptor workboats were conversions of military models but if there is a market for smaller workboats (which there probably is) I could see some new production lines being built to meet civilian demand.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 - 03:51 pm: Edit

I think that Star Fleet is not going to watch a few hundred "clearly orion shaped" workboats that have to be inspected and identified every few days to make sure the Orions did not sneak in a real pirate PF.

I thought the Modular Courier and the Seeker handled this need but if not I will invent a Fetcher workboat from that school of design.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 - 04:12 pm: Edit

When I drove long-haul trucks, back in the '90's, I routinely had to go through scalehouses. At them, I was regularly pulled aside and they went through my logbooks (Hours-of-Service violations). I was also pulled over a few times by local and Federal law enforcement people, if they felt suspicious about SOMEthing.

While Workboats aren't limited to highways quite the same way eighteen wheelers are, at least in theory, I'm sure there are specified "Shipping Channels" through most Empires territories and ships of any sort, freighters or workboats, operating away from them would appear suspicious.

IF there're "Inspection Stations" routinely at various places where these "Shipping Lanes" enter (or leave) star systems, possibly something built on a SAMS, that put mandatory (if cursory) inspections on ships going through, IMO, that would respectfully serve the function of the Scalehouses (we called then "Chicken Coops") in the SFU.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 - 04:54 pm: Edit

Personally, the fact that workboats have such a variety of base hulls to be found across the Alpha Octant is part of the appeal of this class of unit for me.

As such, I would not be in a hurry to see a "generic" workboat design added to the game setting.

Not least since, even back on Shapeways 1.0, there was an effort to move away from each empire using the same "default" (i.e. Federation) design template for their respective civilian units.

-----

On a related note:

During the course of the Andromedan War, there was an alternative source of workboats to be found in different pockets of the Alpha Octant: the semi-isolated cantonments formed out of the prior Pacification cordons.

Historically, one of the ways in which these cantonments stayed alive long enough to be repatriated back to ISC home space was to make a side living selling workboats to the nearby empires they had once been sent to keep watch over.

Thus, even in the Federation, one might find a certain percentage of ISC workboats in service, alongside those sourced from the Orion Enclave, or from those adjacent empires minded to export them.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, August 26, 2026 - 11:06 am: Edit

The limitation on use of "foreign workboats" is going to be repair parts...