SPP:

The idea that we can "let nature recover" is kind of silly. Humanity has curtailed the population (for good or ill) a lot of the apex predators so we have to keep the herbivore population down ourselves or risk ecological damage. We could reintroduce predators but that has its own challenges.

Instead we need to accept that humanity is part of the ecosystem and make decisions to act responsibly as part of it out of ethical concerns or even just plain self-interest.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 05:59 am: Edit

Jon, you can let nature recover to a new homeostasis. Not to say it'll go back to what is was originally quickly; but it will go back to some kind of equilibrium.

And getting those Apex predators (aka wolves in Yellowstone) back is a heck of a start. It's just a few ranchers that are the main reason they were wiped out in the first place.

And despite what people think, there ALWAYS is an apex predator. The question is whether bears or coyotes can replace wolves. And the answer for Yellowstone is no.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 11:54 am: Edit

Telekinetic ferrets are the apex predators. They can also telepathically alter memories so most people don't know about them.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 11:58 am: Edit

On a more serious note, I don't think it's true that there is always AN apex predator (to change the emphasis in Michael's comment). I think some ecosystems have more than one apex predator simultaneously, if neither preys on the other.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 01:16 pm: Edit

Alan Trevor:

I have to disagree, but it is a matter of interpretation.

Yes, there can be more than one one apex predator in a given ecosystem, but as Michael Grafton noted, in any given ecosystem there is always an apex predator.

I will note that in some definitions of an apex predator, some viruses and germs are considered to be the apex predators of our planet, so it is not always a matter of size or an individual.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 01:48 pm: Edit

SPP,

I'm not sure we're actually disagreeing. Perhaps I didn't make my intent clear enough, but I wasn't directly responding to Mike Grafton's claim, but to a closely related, though not identical claim. If you delete the all-caps emphasis and just state that "there is always an apex predator", there are a couple of different ways to interpret "an apex predator". One could logically interpret the claim as "there is always a unique species that is the apex predator" or "there is always at least one apex predator species". My comment was a disagreement with the first of those two interpretations, which does not necessarily contradict Mike Grafton's statement. But perhaps I was clumsy, through haste, in wording that.


Now, about those telekinetic ferrets...

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Alan Trevor:

What telekinetic ferrets?

(Of course, Alan Trevor's response should be something like: "Telekinetic ferrets? Why are you asking me about something like that?")

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Also, apex predators abound. In a given ecosystem there may be an apex predator among the mammals, but there is likely also an apex predator among the bugs. Thus both in the same ecosystem, but neither competing with the other.

Humans are a curious anomaly in the system. In some regards an apex predator in our own right (as witness other species we by our own actions have driven into extinction), but also the sheepdogs and wolves in our own species (police and serial killers, soldiers on either side of the equation), and frequently still victims of other predators because our society has deadened our understanding of how nature really works. (People who see a mountain lion sunning itself on the rocks and take pictures of their children standing right next to it.)

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 02:59 pm: Edit

I've had ferrets. Trust me, you do not want to give them telekinetic powers.

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 07:12 pm: Edit

Could a race of telekinetic ferrets be one of the lesser associate races of the Federation, ISC, or Maesron?

Just asking...

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Their own Empire, the Iridani are samurai otters.

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 10:52 pm: Edit

The ferret empire would never make it into space. Every time a group of them manage to stand up a rocket, another group will knock it over to watch the crash.

Then everyone runs off with the pieces to hide them, and it's decades before anyone manages to find enough pieces of the program to get it started again.

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Friday, September 07, 2018 - 02:03 am: Edit

"Does anyone here have telekinetic powers? Raise my hand..." - Emo Phillips

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Friday, September 07, 2018 - 10:53 am: Edit

Curiously enough, Szamboni, I was thinking along a rather similar line, albeit with HUGE differences last night.

Imagine what sort of culture would develop among a race of telekinetic ferrets IF they possessed both the curiosity and playfulness of Earth ferrets. As someone who's done a small amount of book study on cultural anthropology, I tried working from that angle.

Exactly how nimble and/or strong is their telekinesis? Would they have felt a need to develop tool use? Would they have had the precision to craft the tools? If the answer to either one of these questions is "No," they'd never have developed into a paleolithic tool using society.

Furthermore, as carnivores, they'd never have developed an agricultural society as we did back in the neolithic. Without those two HUGE development points, would they have ever settled down into permanent settlements? Would they have developed into more advanced groupings (city/states or nations)?

I'm led to think that they'd remain pastoral hunters, even if their intellectual development took them to the point of matching (or exceeding) the philosophical and mathematical skills of our own Bronze age cultures.

As far as how they might respond to first contact, the crew of the observing ship would note a lack of technological development and make the assumption that there was no intelligent life on the planet. A landing team, sent to collect up-close information would run afoul of the playful and curious telekinetic ferrets, but the end results would not have truly been disasterous. Sure, some minor items (like hand phasers, tricorders, or communicators) would be stolen and the playful natives would have a field day with them, but overall, I would suspect that (at least within the Federation) the plan would be to allow them to remain unmolested.

Most of this would, of course, be to keep them isolated to the one planet so to prevent their talents and playfulness from creating havoc across the galaxy...

However, as a storyteller, I'd WANT for their playfulness and talents to create that same havoc, so how WOULD they get to space?

SOMEONE would want to exploit the resources of their world; someone willing to break the isolation of the world to get at it. Would the Orion cartels be willing to exchange labor for passage for folks of this people who are curious about the galaxy? Or for that matter, would unscrupulous Cartels try to press these people into slave labor, only to find out they're completely uncontrollable?

By Mark Hoyle (Usa_Retired) on Friday, September 07, 2018 - 11:07 am: Edit

---

Quote:

telekinetic powers?

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By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Friday, September 07, 2018 - 02:39 pm: Edit

Are just the ferrets telekinetic, or would the entire mustelid line have the ability? The ferrets may be happy with gyring and gimbling in the wabes, but the fishers and wolverines may put a bit more effort into getting access to a new food source.

"So tell me, two-legs, are there a lot of you on your planet?"
<redshirt suspended in mid-air> "Billions and billions. We own this entire sector!"
"Oh my, that is a lot. This 'ship' of yours, can it take us to them?"

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Friday, September 07, 2018 - 02:53 pm: Edit

Aside from owning one of the monsters once, my view on ferrets is somewhat twisted by the book Rogue's Gallery which featured the crimelord Homie the Stoat and his secret identity as The Ermine.

http://mistercrew.com/files/2010/02/rogues_gallery_06.jpg

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 12:00 pm: Edit

Curious question, Mark.

If I may, though, there is a parallel that makes me think such would not be the case.

With our cars and scooters, there's no need for us here in the United States to walk anyplace. Despite that, we have gyms and celebrate running culture.

For that reason, IMO, telekinetic ferrets would likely still have a celebration of bodily speed, stealth, and agility as part of their culture, if for no other purpose than contests between two individuals.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 03:24 pm: Edit

Tonight, the Sci Fi Channel will be showing a new movie in the "Tremors" franchise. This will be the sixth film, titled "Tremors: Colder than Hell." Burt Gummer will again appear (the only character, and actor, that has been in every film and the 13 episode TV series).

The first showing will be at 2000 hrs, CST, but it is scheduled to be re-aired three additional times if you cannot set it to record the first time.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 04:14 pm: Edit

A Sci-Fi Short Film : 'INVASION DAY'

()


Garth L. Getgen

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 04:49 pm: Edit

Cute, but not the first time I have seen such an idea promulgated. There is just so much more one can do with special effects and computers than was possible in the past, and do it with a very small budget and put the old Hollywood blockbusters to shame.

I mean Warner Brothers did a few cartoons (I am pretty sure they did this at least twice, but maybe it was all done in one cartoon) about a kid with a very active imagination that included him imagining he was protecting the Earth from alien invaders, among other imagined adventures. But there were also other presentations of the idea.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Oh come on, Steve, tell me that didn't give you a chuckle or at least a smile. You're not THAT cold-hearted.


Garth L. Getgen

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Garth L. Getgen:

So ... you are admitting that you do not know me as well as you thought? (GRIN)

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 07:05 pm: Edit

[* no comments from the peanut galleries *]

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, September 14, 2018 - 07:45 pm: Edit

'R'ha' - A Sci-fi Short Film presented by DUST Runtime = 6:45


Garth L. Getgen