In another topic Jeffrey George Anderson said:

"There's another aspect of the vastness of space that, IMO, has the potential for storytelling; the administration of conquered areas by the forces that have moved on to conquer more. Now, I'll freely admit that my knowledge of history is spotty (to say the least!!), but IIRC, after the Mongols conquered much of China, they left its administration to another conquered people, the Mandarins, as they went on to conquer more of the world, and the Mandarins promptly founded a Mandarin Dynasty in China.

"(If I'm wrong about that, please bear with me...)

"Now, let's take a look at a potential Sci-Fi version of that. The "Galactic Overlords" have conquered Earth, enslaved much of us, and have moved on to conquer new worlds. They've left some sycophants in charge (I would guess Lawyers who, as we all well know, have already sold their souls, so why not sell out the humanity they've long abandoned) to rule in their stead. Dissention would grow until there's an active, armed revolt. Would the "Galactic Overlords" be summoned back to deal with it, or would the sycophants use what resources they had available to try and suppress it? Where would that campaign go?

"Would it turn into the Jumokian revolt/uprising against the Eneen?

"(Now to kick myself; this AIN'T "Real World Space Exploration," but it is still fun. Isn't it?)"

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, January 03, 2019 - 05:13 pm: Edit

First, I think Jeffrey George Anderson is slyly reminding us that we have obviously already been conquered by alien overlords who have left lawyers in control (look how many Lawyers occupy the supposedly "elected" offices in our own country).

Second, this concept was of course the basis for at least one episode of the new "Outer Limits" which aired on HBO (Earth was conquered, the remaining humans enslaved, and the aliens moved on leaving robotic masters to supervise the slaves).

Third, I find it difficult to imagine the logistics of such a thing, and believe conquered worlds would (as was implied in the Outer Limits episode mentioned above, but the episode implied that the planet was then kind of forgotten) be required to provide logistical support to the overlord's as their fleet advanced, and perhaps have masses of slaves exported to work in factories and mines closer to the front lines. I am old, a former soldier, and logistics is often the first thing that jumps into my head whenever issues come up.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, January 03, 2019 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Jon Murdock said:

"Some of it was grafted on by the human supremacy thing was implicit in even the first film. Outside of the one informant everyone in the Imperial military is human. No one on the Death Star or in the top ranks of the Imperial hierarchy are alien.

"I realize that this was probably a cost thing as making alien costumes was expensive but they could have used some of the Mos Eisley costumes on the Death Star or put an alien in one of the military conferences.

"Of course you can say the same thing about the rebels on Yavin and Hoth but we try not to talk about that and they did reveal more alien involvement in Episode VI.

"Oh, and I do not think the Imperials were anti-droid. They treat them as property but that is probably the norm."

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Thursday, January 03, 2019 - 05:11 pm: Edit

Moved to the "Sci Fi Other Than Trek" topic.

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Friday, January 04, 2019 - 04:29 pm: Edit

"The President in particular is very much a figurehead-he weilds no real power whatsoever. He is apparently chosen by the government, bit the qualities he is required to display are not those of leadership, but those of finely judged outrage. For this reason, the President is always a controversial choice, always an infuriating but fascinating character. His job is not to weild power but to draw attention away from it. On those criteria Zaphod Beeblebrox is one of the most successful Presidents the galaxy has ever had-he has already spent two of his ten preidential years in prison for fraud. Very very few people realize the President and the Government have virtually no power at all, and of those few people only six know whence ultimate political power is weilded. Most of the others secretly believe that the ultimate decision-making process is handled by a computer. They couldn't be more wrong."

Douglas Adams. "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 01:50 pm: Edit

Garth Getgen:

For what is is worth, my opinion is that the characters on "Space Command" (at least those on the ship) are too much (forgive the expression) "cardboard cutouts" of too many previous shows. I watched the earlier rendition, and trying to watch the "more polished" one simply reinforced the feeling, so much so that I did not get past the "crash landing," and fast forwarded to the end, and was not caught by the addition at all.

I will not comment on "The Orville" until I am reasonably certain everyone is "caught up" on the last two episodes. I have been told, however, that the next episode will be the last for the security officer, who is leaving the show and will be replaced by another member of her species. Something of a pity, as while I have (already) grown tired of the jokes about her strength, I was otherwise pretty satisfied with the character.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, January 07, 2019 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Time has passed, so I am making a comment on the last episode of "The Orville."

A ship's captain is responsible for his ship and crew. Given the damage to the ship, the captain is going to receive a reprimand.

The chief of security is responsible for the internal security of the ship. Her failure resulted in the ship being put at risk due to the illegal activity that is apparently happening under her nose, which resulted in the ship being placed at risk, so she is going to be reprimanded.

The third officer in seeking out a source of illegal programming for the holodeck, indicating his knowledge of illegal activity on the ship, which it is his duty to safeguard, directly placed the ship at risk. What the program was about is irrelevant, he clearly violated a number of safeguards in doing what he did which allowed the negative consequence, and damage to the ship, to occur. I honestly do not think his participation in the rescue wipes the slate clean, or even earns consideration. At the very least he would be severely reprimanded, and in his case the reprimand, even if he avoided court martial (because his action directly caused the ship to be placed at risk however much he was ignorant of it at the time) would be career ending, i.e., he might retain his current position, but he is never going to be promoted and his carelessness will cause him to be passed over for other assignments on other ships.

At this juncture, I am divided on the first officer and whether or not to reprimand her. She bears some of the responsibility for the actions of the crew as first officer. But I tend in this case to settle her as a merely verbal, rather than a formal written in the permanent file, reprimand.

The individual who provided the program will be immediately discharged from the service, for the good of the service. Even if the individual only acted as a "middleman," there is no telling what other damage his actions may have caused (acting as a middleman at other times) in the past, or will cause in the future, and reprimand is not sufficient for placing the ship at risk by providing the program. There is no possibility of the individual being deemed trustworthy in a new posting.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, January 07, 2019 - 06:05 pm: Edit

Time has passed, so I am making a comment on the last episode of "The Orville."

A ship's captain is responsible for his ship and crew. Given the damage to the ship, the captain is going to receive a reprimand.

The chief of security is responsible for the internal security of the ship. Her failure resulted in the ship being put at risk due to the illegal activity that is apparently happening under her nose, which resulted in the ship being placed at risk, so she is going to be reprimanded.

The third officer in seeking out a source of illegal programming for the holodeck, indicating his knowledge of illegal activity on the ship, which it is his duty to safeguard, directly placed the ship at risk. What the program was about is irrelevant, he clearly violated a number of safeguards in doing what he did which allowed the negative consequence, and damage to the ship, to occur. I honestly do not think his participation in the rescue wipes the slate clean, or even earns consideration. At the very least he would be severely reprimanded, and in his case the reprimand, even if he avoided court martial (because his action directly caused the ship to be placed at risk however much he was ignorant of it at the time) would be career ending, i.e., he might retain his current position, but he is never going to be promoted and his carelessness will cause him to be passed over for other assignments on other ships.

At this juncture, I am divided on the first officer and whether or not to reprimand her. She bears some of the responsibility for the actions of the crew as first officer. But I tend in this case to settle her as a merely verbal, rather than a formal written in the permanent file, reprimand.

The individual who provided the program will be immediately discharged from the service, for the good of the service. Even if the individual only acted as a "middleman," there is no telling what other damage his actions may have caused (acting as a middleman at other times) in the past, or will cause in the future, and reprimand is not sufficient for placing the ship at risk by providing the program. There is no possibility of the individual being deemed trustworthy in a new posting.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Monday, January 07, 2019 - 06:56 pm: Edit

Honestly, I think the third Officer should have been cashiered for the software, given his rank. He also should have gotten an award for bravery for the rescue. One does not cancel the other.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Monday, January 07, 2019 - 07:22 pm: Edit

"We award you this medal for your service. And here are your dishonorable discharge papers. Have a nice day."

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Monday, January 07, 2019 - 07:55 pm: Edit

"Half of the generals want to pin a medal on your chest, the other half want you shot. I offered a compromise... first we will pin a medal on your chest, then we will have you shot. I have to admit, the idea had a certain appeal too it." - President Susanna Luchenko, Earth Alliance

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Monday, January 07, 2019 - 08:48 pm: Edit

I also expected the third officer to be cashiered along with the middleman. Pulling into stardock for a new outer hull would be a major event as far as oversight and paperwork goes. (Unless this sort of thing happens all the time out on the frontier, which brings us back to semi-expendable hardlight crews.)

Given the tone of the show, I could also see the captain and that security officer - possibly tipsy from a finishing off a bottle together - getting everyone involved off the ship - either on a shuttle home or out the nearest airlock - and then pulling into stardock with a wild tale about exploding stars and a major fire in the holodeck.

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Monday, January 07, 2019 - 11:56 pm: Edit

IIRC, there was discussion as to possible charges of incompetence of command when PT-109 was sunk because when she was rammed, she was sitting in open ocean with her engines off (and there were obviously enemy ships in the area).

IMO, whether an officer gets commended or faces charges in incidents like what you're talking about (I don't watch TV at all, so never saw the incident in "Orville") is often a matter wrapped in politics...

By Nick Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, January 09, 2019 - 10:40 pm: Edit

Some folks make a lightsaber:

HacksmithLightsaber

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 12:51 pm: Edit

Well ... "Rogue One" finally showed up in the record queue.

I have watched about 40%, and my general view is that they have, even more than "Return of the Jedi" reduced Stormtroopers to about as threatening as the "Keystone Kops."

Seriously, the "reprogrammed imperial droid" casually, CASUALLY, tosses an explosive device over his shoulder and wipes out about a squad. Characters are running through Stormtroopers engaged in a firefight and are ignored. All those Stormtroopers dropping like flies, and it seems the only target of their ire who is hit is one shot deliberately by one of the rebels.

The Imperials are so woefully incompetent that they simply are not a threat.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 01:15 pm: Edit

SPP,

To be fair, that actually goes back to the very first Star Wars movie. They may have seemed competent when they boarded that ship at the beginning of the movie. And Obi Wan/ Alec Guinness could make his comments about "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are that precise" when we and Luke found that destroyed droid transport. But seriously, through most of the movie they were... not impressive.

(Edited to correct typo.)

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 01:38 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

Seriously, the "reprogrammed imperial droid" casually, CASUALLY, tosses an explosive device over his shoulder and wipes out about a squad.

---

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 01:45 pm: Edit

Alan Trevor:

In my (probably biased) opinion, this presentation makes them infinitely worse. As it was impossible during this street battle to take them as anything more than self-mobile training targets.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 02:20 pm: Edit

Steve Petrick:

Self mobile training targets is level I default programming. Comes with the "basic package" of garrison troops that the Empire deployed (sold?) to planets across the systems. Level 2 software upgrade allows accurate stationary fire (such as displayed in episode IV.) level 3 allows mobile storm troops to accurately hit stationary targets (big buildings for example.).

Each upgrade costs ten times the price charged for the prior software.

It would appear that the performance you want, might be achieved by upgrade 45 or 46.

Star ship targeting systems have their own pricing schedule.

Please contact your local Imperial overlor... oops, umm, I mean your local friendly and courteous sales representative.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 02:27 pm: Edit

Level 0 involves stormtroopers that routinely shoot themselves.

By Douglas Lampert (Dlampert) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 02:37 pm: Edit

I assume everyone knows the one about what happens if ST redshirts and SW stormtroopers get into a firefight.

Everyone misses every shot, but the redshirts all die anyway.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 02:41 pm: Edit

Scenes I wish had been kept from the book version of the Original Star Wars because I think (personal opinion) they would have made for a better story:

Storm Trooper armor is shown to work (cannot just sit there and take hits, but if you are not hit dead on it will deflect a blaster bolt).

Five TIE fighters pursue the Millenium Falcon; four are destroyed and the last breaks away.

Luke Skywalker makes two runs down the Death Star Trench: Wedge's fighter is damaged and Biggs' fighter is destroyed on the second run.

Overall the Empire's forces come across as reasonably competent and professional.

The most consistent thing about Star Wars is that the opposition to the plucky rebels becomes more and more incompetent, which basically removes any enjoyment on my part.

John Wayne generally won, but say what you want the enemy was always a threat. Even in "Sands of Iwo Jima" the Japanese did not come across as incompetent.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 03:11 pm: Edit

In short, there is nothing wrong with a competent opposition, and having the heroes overcome a truly threatening enemy is part of what makes them heroes. But the "Empire" is so much a laughingstock as an opposition it is hard to believe they are any threat at all to the heroes.

I mean, the British Guards chewed up The Old Guard at Waterloo. Would the scene have been any better if the Old Guard were shown slipping on banana peels?

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 03:43 pm: Edit

I read an article (back in the first set of movies) that suggested that Stormtroopers were indeed excellent shots, but were under orders to be intentionally bad when engaging certain rebel units. The plan was to panic and scatter the rebels, then follow them as they reveal the location for the next plot point.

It could also be that Force wielders disrupt the RNG in the area around them and your otherwise competent stormtroopers start thinking there's something wrong with their guns. Niven brought up the idea of psychically "lucky" characters and commented how it was impossible to write plausible stories with them running around. (Domino in Deadpool 2, for example.)

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 04:14 pm: Edit

One of the problems with Star Wars is that it really has not kept up with technology.

All the blasters on a given Star Destroyer to be used by the Storm Troopers should be "keyed" to that Storm Trooper unit. That is to say that unless the blaster is held by the gloved hand of a Storm Trooper to which it is keyed, it will not function. That is a logical outgrowth of a technology that started kicking around in the 1990s I believe, where your pistol would only work if you were wearing a ring matched to it. Something I had a problem with because of the fallacy that you might need to pick up your partner's weapon in a gunbattle. But if you could key all of the weapons for a given mission to all of the troops, it would be workable, and the rebel scum could not pick up and use Imperial Weapons in a given battle. Sure, the weapons could be rekeyed by an armorer between battles, but only the Emperor's troops could use them initially.

When you "take up the slack" on a blaster's trigger, a red dot should appear in your Storm Trooper helmet telling you where the point of impact will be. We have laser targeting now, why should this not be common among Storm Troopers? It would certainly explain why they do not seem to aim.

A Storm Trooper's helmet should be equipped to allow him to see in the dark as well as in the light of day, and easily switch between the two.

I could list a number of other modern technologies that should have shown up in use by Storm Troopers, but do not seem to.