SFM: a third module?
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Marines: SFM: a third module?
For years now, I have been saying there is nothing to do for a third module. Everything on the original four-module list was done in two modules.
Chuck Strong suggested recon vehicles but there is really no reason for them. Empires build everything on two chassis. If you want to send a squad on recon use a GCV like the US Army does. But the thought stuck in my mind.
Jean said that I could do a new product as PDF counters and I did one, but more people asked for a real module than welcomed the counters. When we worked up the list for the next product we considered using one sheet for Gorns and Tholians. Add that to some scenarios and well it is a product. Maybe print another map?
But we need new rules to make it gel. I could not think of any.
Today I did the counters for Andros and saw they had that little recon bot and decided to put it in to replace the outposts Andros don’t use. I didn’t include commandos because Andros do not use them but Steve P pointed out I was wrong so they went back on the sheet.
But that made me think we could do the Paravians with totally different vehicles since they only do raids. Still pondering that.
Then I thought we could create hover cycles so light cavalry could exist. Petrick snorted that these were easy to kill but Al saw the dolphins on the new ISC countersheet and liked the idea.
So, does anyone have any actually useful ideas for new rules?
Mike, they are already ahead of you on the combined rulebook! http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/26987/26990.html?1614980004
For the tech variance, I'm not sure how much that will really show up at this scale much beyond some hard binaries. An EY Romulan energy rifle may not vaporize the target Gorn as *efficiently* as the Gorn's weapon will vaporize the Romulan - but they still end up vaporized just the same. I've not really looked at the GURPS PD stuff since I worked on the original, but, generally speaking, unless you get into exotic field screens or power armor (which we generally don't see on the personal scale in the background), ultra-tech weaponry is just a question of throughly dead it makes you.
Against heavier targets like vehicles and especially main fighting vehicles, the ultra tech armors, shields, ECM, what have you can make much more of a difference - an EY Rom tank is going have some trouble with a Gorn tank - and either of those will roll through pretty much any 1960's type opposition.
One more idea that's been mentioned before: Monsters. Dinosaurs were mentioned, but maybe give some guidelines on how to model various monsters in the game. I dunno. Perhaps saying that Dinosaurs are like GCVs and dragons (not space dragons, but terrestrial dragons) are like GAS. Something like that. And explaining how to extend that to some other kind of monster. And don't forget xenomorphs!
RECAPITULATION
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Jeff Wile suggested snipers. They have been in the game from the first product.
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Alan Trevor mentioned X-tech ground vehicles but I don't think X-tech is cheap enough to put it into hundreds of ground vehicles.
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The game has had exotic environments from the first module.
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Are there rules for landing a ship? Yes, there have been since the first module.
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Alan Trevor wanted some empire's tank to be a little tougher or a little meaner than another. The problem is that 2d6 granularity doesn't work well there. There is also the problem that most tanks across WWII national lines are actually very similar in actual numbers. (Yes, there were generations and going up against a later generation was bad, but in the same generation it wasn't really that different. Then there is the problem that tanks are limited by what you can haul around and, shucks, that forces all of the designs in a very narrow band. Beyond that, no player is going to volunteer his empire for an inferior model of tank.
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Jeff Anderson noted that Gorns are slower but tougher than other species. Maybe so, but speed on a battlefield has more to do with not getting shot than your sprinting speed at the gymnasium track.
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Jeff Anderson cited that Klingons use Zoolies as scouts. True, but the Klingons use every species as scouts. Don't believe the RPG marketing stuff. Zoolies have night vision while others use night vision devices. I don't see that distinction as making any difference.
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I for one think obsolete weapons would be handled by calling the units militia. Mike West suggested die roll modifiers.
INTERESTING!
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Douglas Saladana suggested underwater combat. I think there is a way to do that on the existing maps.
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Douglas Saladana suggested cave systems. Could be done with a new map that would have limited use. As for boring a tunnel during a scenario, good luck, those machines are nothing close to tactical speeds.
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My idea, towed artillery, fires like a tank, dragged by a vehicle, requires set up time, targeted like infantry.
Tactical nuclear weapons: This is theoretically possible but does result in a saucer sized hole in the map.
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Counter-gravity motorcycles. Vulnerable while moving, but much faster.
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Gravity variation: makes infantry faster or slower, vehicles unaffected.
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Mike West suggested combat on an asteroid. Here ya go. Range is limited because of horizon, indirect artillery may not work as there isn't much gravity, map edges merge so you're going all the way around the thing.
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Jeff Wile suggested vehicles carrying drones capable of hitting ships in orbit. I don't see how the ship isn't detecting those, but maybe...
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Xenomorphs by Mike West: move faster than commandoes, attack only by close assault (use commando line), kill like infantry.
Zombies by Steve Cole: Didn't we do those?
One thing that caught my eye in Module E2 was "Battle Armor and Powered Battle Armor".
I know they only exist in the Triangulum Galaxy. But that would be a neat optional rule for people that wanted to play an Triangulum SFM scenario.
I know this is something that might just be added to a CL or addendum.
I don't see why it couldn't be added to Module III.
I sent the report again right now.
The list of possible monsters I gave was intended to be an example list. What I really want are guidelines for assigning abilities to monsters.
Plus, I would expect and hope that xenomorphs would be individually scarier than plain ole zombies. They should be able to affect vehicles, for example. Maybe in the scale of the game they are close enough, but I would very much expect xenomorphs to be more effective on a squad level.
And, yes, please, let's have some battle armor. Let's get some battledress!
On the asteroids, sure, those rules work. I just want to see them codified. None of these additions have to be multiple pages of rules to make them worthwhile. The point is just to make sure the possibilities are covered. And please don't forget outright "floating" 0G combat, too. Especially if powered battle armor is around ...
My understanding is that a HWS is basically a regular squad with "tac mortars." Which I think of as basically 60mm.
Why not a version with the equivalent of 81mm? 120mm? truck toted?
AAA for shooting at GAS (etc)
Are there K-9 units? Ohhhhh, how about robotic K-9s??
Garth L. Getgen
Dogs? eh, yeah. I'll work on that.
The HWS has a shoulder-fired rocket launcher, a big one it takes several people to carry. (Rifle squads have the small ones carried by one guy.) There is nothing bigger that is man portable. I already mentioned "towed artillery" which would be tank type guns.
Mike, I got your report (twice, the first one arrived five minutes after I went home) and fixed the only thing you mentioned.
The xenomorph rule I posted above attacks vehicles by close assault. Also buildings, bunkers, turrets. Zombies only attack people. I think maybe we can have some kind of "define your monster" rule but there are only 9,876,543 different kinds of monsters so it's going to get wordy.
Some times these topics run too long.
I forgot that I asked for sniper rules to be added, I remember having a conversation about snipers, but can’t remember with who (possibly Loren knight!?!)
And the comment about drone carrying vehicles was just meant to repeat Jeff G Anderson’s post in real world military. ( I think he confused RWM with SFM.)
Actually, JSW, I posted in RWM because the missiles that were discussed in that subject made me think of the idea.
As far as where they really belonged, I wasn't thinking in terms of SFM, I was thinking solely in terms of SFB. Problem was that I didn't know if they belonged in the R.1 section or as an addenda to what's in chart (D15.87), so I chose to put it (more as a joke more than anything else) where the defensive cruise missiles had just been discussed.
I guess it's just one of those things that, as often happens when someone on the Autism Spectrum is confused, the solution I came up with royally ticked you off. I didn't mean to, and I'm sorry it did.
I would love to see a scenario where a squads fight dragons. Like a mission to destroy a Branthadon hatchery.
Or to capture some eggs...
I agree with Paul that the Battle Armor noted in Module E2 under (DN100.1), plus the more advanced Powered Battle Armor detailed here, would be welcome additions to the Star Fleet Marines ruleset.
Plus, there is the potential for rules covering Arachnid (DN103.0) or Sigvirion (OR11.05) assimilation.
However, unlike the Lesser Magellanic Cloud empires, which had "Module M" material in Module C5 to use as the basis of the data on page 19 of the Star Fleet Marines Battle Manual, there is as yet little data on the battalion or company organizations used by empires in the Triangulum Galaxy or in the Omega Octant. (The "update" file for the Federal Republic of Aurora in Captain's Log #53 has them lean heavily on Federation precedents, with a few added variations added as more "new" arrivals show up in FRA space over time.) However, if or when such data is made available over in SFB, presumably this new material could one day be used as the basis for conversion to SFM standards.
Actually, one option for a "monster" scenario could be a "recharge" raid by Souldra Shards. Certain Shard variants can be used as attack craft, whereas the dreaded Black Shards would drain the life of any Marine squads caught within a certain radius of their landing zones.
To double-back to the Alpha Octant, perhaps the Marine data for the "lost empire" Carnivons and Paravians in Module C6 could be mined for info here. (It's not yet known if the Omega-Paravians use the same Marine organization as their Module C6 counterparts.)
Obstacles and how they are built by CEVs.
Unarmored engineer vehicles.
If a size-1 ground bombardment shuttle is said to be akin to a helicopter gunship, is there (or, if not, could there be) a size-2 heavy bombardment shuttle that might be akin to the AC-130?
Also, would there be any use for a "VIP" counter, to represent key civilian personnel - such as visiting dignitaries, local governors, Seltorian (or Hiver or Maghadim) Queens, etc. - who one side might wish to capture (or assassinate) and whom the other side would be obliged to protect (or evacuate)?
Gary, I've mulled over the thoughts of a size-2 heavy bombardment shuttle and couldn't help but think of an early helicopter gunship experiment where they put a heckuvalotta guns on a CH-47. While it had an impressive amount of firepower, it put it all in a package that, if hit by AA, took a lot of support firepower out in a single hit.
While the analogy isn't perfect, it does make me think that a HBS is probably going to contribute less than two separate GBSes.
Thinking more, the HAS is really meant for one thing; bringing oversized ground combat units (tanks) to the battlefield. Otherwise, a pair of GASes are more flexible. Again, this undermines how useful a HBS might be.
On the other hand, the idea of a VIP has me thinking in different areas (be afraid; be VERY afraid... 
). While we have no information suggesting any psionic affinity for Seltorians, part of the color/background for Hivers speaks of their queens as being able to telepathically communicate with any Hiver under their authority. Could there be a potential for such telepathic communications providing a die roll bonus, especially if loss of that telepathic communication triggers a die roll penalty after the death of the telepathic focus point individual.
I have "Assault" on order and will be mulling over its potential once it arrives.
Technicals = guntrucks
Insurgency operations, Bio weapons, and such could be fun.
Insurgency would just be a scenario and we have done those.
Bioweapons? You mean "Roll a die for each unit and X% of them are removed"? I am not sure how you make much out of that. I did write a rule for tactical nuclear weapons ("set fire to the map").
Micro nukes. incinerates a single hex...
What about heavier National Guard Tanks and Vehicles?
I am not sure heavier tanks would be practical. They could only be moved as very heavy freight, would be limited production and much more expensive, and would require a whole new combat table. Still, an idea we could use if we ever ran out of ideas.