Fleet Doctrine Rules

Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: A Call to Arms Star Fleet: ACTASF Book 1.2 (The ADB Revision): Fleet Doctrine Rules
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Fleet Doctrine: Long version  2   03/04 11:45am

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 04:19 pm: Edit

The draft rules below aren't 100% complete, but are where I'm headed.
They are completely OPTIONAL so players of FC, ACTASF, and Starmada can continue to IGNORE the fussy rules that SFB players use.
But those who WANT such rules can have them.
I cannot really change, delete, simplify, or abstract anything more than I have as this is "universe conformity" stuff, but being optional, nobody has a reason to complain. If you don't like them, just ignore them.
The reason to send it to you is to make sure we get all of the various sub-lists complete and have a set of rules that are clear and do not generate questions. Well, at least no questions other than thinly-disguised appeals to change the rules, which won't happen. The rules limit you to one DN per 12 ships and that's not going to change. The rules require you to complete one block of 12 before you get access to another set of limited ship types, and there's no point in the rules if we don't require that. So, let those who WANT the SFB-style rules work to get these "right" and those who hate the whole idea just say to themselves "I am going to ignore that stuff" and not waste our time with complaints.
====================
ACTASF FLEET DOCTRINE RULES
FC FLEET DOCTRINE RULES
STARMADA FLEET DOCTRINE RULES
Revised 3pm 21 Feb 2013
=
These rules reflect how the "real" Star Fleet (and the fleets of the other empires) deployed and used their ships. Players may choose to use, modify, or ignore them as they will. Any given tournament judge may announce that his tournament is "historical" and will use these rules, or he may choose to ignore such an announcement (and these rules) perhaps using the term "open format" to clarify the status to players.
=
These rules are based on Star Fleet Battles rule (S8.0) and reflect that while an empire with hundreds of ships may include a certain number of each type, in most cases these are distributed more or less evenly and not concentrated in one area. An "open format" player could choose to build an entire fleet of dreadnoughts, while a "historical" player faces limits reflecting that the national fleet command has parceled out the dreadnoughts: one to each admiral.
=
Note: The rules below refer to some types and variants which have yet to be added to ACTASF, FC, and/or Starmada but which are due for eventual inclusion. If you see mention of a ship you donít have, just ignore it.
=
The rules below refer to limits based on the total number of ships, not points. In effect, this encourages players to include a mix of all sizes of ships (frigates, destroyers, cruisers) in their fleet, which was the standard historical pattern. It was extremely rare to see a fleet consisting only of large ships. It was somewhat less rare to see a fleet consisting mostly of smaller ships, particularly when assigned to defend a sector.
==========
COMMAND LIMITS
=
The games Star Fleet Battles and Federation & Empire make extensive use of command ratings and command limits. The result is a limit to the size of a fleet of about 12 ships which is a reflection on what those game systems can handle. Federation Commander, A Call to Arms Star Fleet, and Starmada ignore such things entirely (and routinely handle fleets of 20 ships or more).
=
The rules below reflect the general idea of a 12-ship block, but players are perfectly welcome to say that they have combined two or more blocks for this particular battle so there is no limit (other than assigned point value). If you have 13 ships, then (for purposes of these rules) you have one block of 12 ships and one block of one ship (i.e., you must completely "fill" one block of 12 before starting another). A block of one ship can have one of whatever a block of 12 can, but obviously cannot have one of each type since (after all) it is a block of one ship. A block of six ships (part of a task force of 18 ships) could indeed consist of one dreadnought, one police cutter, two escorts, one scout, and one free trader and be completely integrated into the other block. (The rules on "block of 12 ships" apply only to determining how many of each type of ship you can have, and have no impact on how you operate the ships in combat.)
==========
BLOCK LIMITS
=
These rules reflect that the "leader" and "special" versions of any class are fairly rare and have a specific purpose. If you use more of them in your fleet then some other fleet will be at a disadvantage because you stole all of their specials.
=
No block can have more than:
@ one Battleship (any variant thereof);
@ one DN (including DN, DNH, DNG, DNL, C8, C5, C9, C10, Condor, Vulture, etc.);
@ one BCH (including BCH, C7, NovaHawk-K, RoyalHawk-K, KillerHawk, etc.);
@ two scouts
@ two escorts.
@ one police cutter
@ one auxiliary (armed priority transport, free trader, prime trader, etc.)
==========
SQUADRON LEADERS
=
To have a CC/CB/CCH, you must have two heavy cruisers. (You can substitute NCAs for CAs and NCCs or CCHs for CCs, and mix the types.)
Command Cruisers include CC, CB, CCH, D7C, D6C; Romulan SuperHawk, RoyalHawk-A, and NovaHawk-A.
CAs include KR, K7R, D6, D7, E7, BC.
NCAs include D5W, FireHawk, RegentHawk.
Klingons mix D7s and D6s all the time.
Light cruisers and war cruisers cannot be substituted for heavy cruisers.
=
To have a CWL, you must have two other CWs (including any variants). You can substitute CLs for CWs. Rare CL-leaders can be substituted for the CWL. (CW includes Federation NCL, Klingon D5, Romulan SP, Gorn HDD, Kzinti CM.)
=
To have a DWL, you must have two other DWs (or variants of DW hulls). You can substitute DDs for DWs. (DW includes Federation FFB, Klingon F5W, Romulan SkyHawk and K5W, Kzinti BFF, Gorn BDD.)
=
The Star Fleet Universe has a couple of frigate leaders (Klingon F5L and E6), and these can be treated in the same way (each leads two frigates). Frigates include Klingon F5, E5, and E4 (which can be mixed); Romulan SeaHawk, K5R, K4R; Kzinti FFH and FFK.
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Special Klingon Rule: You cannot have a Klingon F5L unless you have two F5s. Klingons can substitute E4s for F5s. They can substitute F5WLs for F5Ls. Klingons can use an F6 as either an F5L or a standard DW.
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Special Federation Rule: The Federation has some DDL destroyer leaders and FFL frigate leader which are not command variants but plasma-armed combat variants. As such, even though called leaders, these are standard warships.
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Special Romulan rule: The JayHawk battle frigate can be used as a frigate, frigate leader, or destroyer, but not as a destroyer leader.
=
Special Gorn Rule: You can treat the DD as either a destroyer (substitute for BDD war destroyer) or a frigate. There is a Gorn DDL which can lead DDs but which cannot be substituted for a BDD in a squadron of BDDs.) You could have a Gorn BDL leading two DDs, two BDDs, or a BDD and a DD. There is a Gorn frigate which is a police ship.
==========
SPECIAL SHIPS
=
Drone combat variants (such as the F5D), fast ships, and commando ships are interchangeable with standard warships of the same hull type.
=
Freighters cannot be included in fleets but a scenario might define that a fleet is protecting or attacking freighters.
=
Bases are normally defined by a scenario. Players can only include a base in their forces if they are defending a fixed locality such as a planet.
=
There are a number of "limited production warships" in the universe, such as the OK6 (there was only one of those), and players may not have more than one of each "rare" ship.
=
A current list of such ships available in ACTASF includes: OK6.
==========
FUTURE ADDITIONS
These include: carriers, fighters, minesweepers, drone bombardment ships, gunboats, gunboat tenders, maulers, tugs, transport variants of warships, X-ships, Andromedans, auxiliary ships, penal ships, and diplomatic ships. Fleet doctrine rules for these will be provided if and when they are added to ACTASF.
=
EPOCHS
=
The Star Fleet Universe covers a recorded history of more than 200 years, but mostly focuses on the 18 years of the General War (the largest historical conflict, as it involved all of the empires). Star Fleet Battles and Federation & Empire have extensive rules assigning every ship type an availability date. Players of Starmada, A Call to Arms Star Fleet, and Federation Commander simply ignore this and use any ship they want.
=
Players who want to use the official SFB/F&E dates can easily obtain the SFB Master Ship Chart or F&E Ship Information Table and use it. (Avoid doing this while operating heavy machinery.)
=
Players who want a middle ground might consider this concept.
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PRE-GENERAL WAR: Can use DN, CA, CL, DD, FF, and variants thereof.
=
EARLY GENERAL WAR: Add DNL, CCH, CW, DW, and variants thereof.
=
LATE GENERAL WAR: Add DNH, BCH, NCA, and variants thereof.
====END====

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 05:20 pm: Edit

CC requires two OTHER CA.

Add KC9R to unique list.

thanks to Tony Thomas.

======
Thanks to Dal Downing

Gorn CM and CS are NCAs.

Tholian PCs are frigates.

Add TK5 to unique ships.

By Ed Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 06:09 pm: Edit

Steve, if a CC requires 2 CAs then it cant be used by itself or with any other ships. In S8 I thought it was too have a second CC or leader of another type that then you had to have 2 CAs to fill out the squadron.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 06:54 pm: Edit

CCs don't really have anything to do with blocks of 12, but with other CAs.

Scout is defined as any ship with a scout trait or special sensor. A D6D is a scout, not a drone combat variant.

Escort is a ship with aegis. An E4 Escort is not an escort as it doesn't have aegis.

For now I'm writing one set of rules but at the end there will be tailoring for each game. Matthew may want to omit any ship not yet in ACTASF for example.

By Dal Downing (3deez) on Sunday, February 24, 2013 - 07:43 pm: Edit

You many not want to go there but any chance there may be Substitution Rules.

Something like a DN Class ship can Subbed in for a BB, or a BCH Class Ship can subbed in for a DN, or lastly a Leader Type Ship (CC/CCH) could sub in for a BCH?

Yes the above sub proposal would allow someone to stack 3 BCHs in a Block or 2 DNs in a Block of 12.

I do not feel there should be rules to allow a second Police Ship but could see a sub rules to allow a Auxillary to subbed in for a Police Ship. This would allow 2 Auxilary in a Block of 12.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 01:26 am: Edit

We decided to use battle force instead of block.

Might allow combination of pol/aux.

Not too wild about substitutions but maybe when my knee stops hurting.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 04:39 pm: Edit

Been mulling this. The first part isn't doing what I want it to, and nobody likes it. So MAYBE we replace this
===
@ one Battleship (any variant thereof);
@ one DN (including DN, DNH, DNG, DNL, C8, C5, C9, C10, Condor, Vulture, etc.);
@ one BCH (including BCH, C7, NovaHawk-K, RoyalHawk-K, KillerHawk, etc.);
===
with this:
===
Two "command ships" which could be battleships, dreadnoughts, heavy battlecruisers, heavy command cruisers, or command cruisers, or any combination thereof. If a command cruiser is chosen, it is the Battle force flagship and has no requirement for additional heavy cruisers.
=======
=======
Another possible change, replace
===
@ one police cutter
@ one auxiliary (armed priority transport, free trader, prime trader, etc.)
===
with
===
@ two non-naval units, which could be police cutters, prime traders, free traders, or priority transports.

By William Stec (Billstec2) on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 06:50 pm: Edit

That looks better to me.

By Dal Downing (3deez) on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 01:50 am: Edit

So the Terminology is.

A Single Playing Piece is a Unit. Three base combat hulls of the same class can form a Squadron at which time one of them can be replaced with a Class Leader. 12 Units regardless of the number of Squadron (or Battle Groups) forms a Battle Force. What is two or more Battle Forces called? A Fleet, a Task Force or something else?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 04:06 am: Edit

Multiple battle forces are a GLOB. (Grin)

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 07:01 am: Edit

G ood
L ord!
O versized
B attleForce.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Will McC post this in the wrong topic: There is a great preponderance of DNs and BCs in ACTASF, due to the minis box-mix and the fact that it's a minis-only game, so some folks from that crowd might cry foul at not getting to use a notable percentage of their minis, but the SFU S8 setting is what it is.

Well, the ACTASF guys don't get to use anything they want and then claim they're playing under historical doctrine restrictions, but I'm sure they can deal with things as it is an optional rule.

By Simon Robinson (Loki) on Friday, March 01, 2013 - 08:38 am: Edit

As somebody who plays both SFB and CTA:SF I'm really pleased to have Fleet doctrine rules.

I can use them as and when I want to (usually depending on who I'm playing against). I can even adhere to these rules when my opponent does not - and have the option to say "but at least my fleet was historical" if I lose.

The new wording looks better, particularly if you're dealing with a smaller fleet.

I'm currently playing in a campaign based on the one in the CTA:SF rule book and after you take into account the cost of the ships available and the fleet doctrine rules you get some fleets that are too restricted - the Roumulans in particular have trouble at the lower fleet sizes if they are using only 1st Generation ships.

This revesion will solve that problem.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 03:09 pm: Edit

While it's still early days for the Orions, it might be worth adding in some sort of limitation for the deployment of salvage cruisers. Those ships are supposed to be relatively uncommon, and less often used in a battle line; yet, due to the lack of any current restrictions on them, they seem to be showing up in ACtA:SF much more often than they would historically. (At least, I recall discussions of them on the Mongoose forums being used in squadrons with all-drone option mounts, which seems counter to what these hulls ought to be used for in-universe.)

Also, should the Fed CS (which had only one ship of its class built in SFB, but was later upped to three in FC) be added to the list of "rare" ships?

And would the same be an option for some of the rarer Kestrels? (The Behemoth has been accounted for already, but some of the other hulls, like the KRCs, were themselves only deployed in limited numbers.)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 03:54 pm: Edit

Matthew and I agreed that "one off" ships should have a limit but that ACTASF players would not want to deal with three categories (unique, limited, unlimited).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 04:07 pm: Edit

ACTASF FLEET DOCTRINE RULES
Revised 5pm 2 March 2013
=
These rules reflect how the "real" Star Fleet (and the fleets of the other empires) deployed and used their ships. Players may choose to use, modify, or ignore them as they will. Any given tournament judge may announce that his tournament is "historical" and will use these rules, or he may choose to ignore such an announcement (and these rules) perhaps using the term "open format" to clarify the status to players.
=
These rules are based on Star Fleet Battles rule (S8.0) and reflect that while an empire with hundreds of ships may include a certain number of each type, in most cases these are distributed more or less evenly and not concentrated in one area. An "open format" player could choose to build an entire fleet of dreadnoughts, while a "historical" player faces limits reflecting that the national fleet command has parceled out the dreadnoughts: one to each admiral.
=
Note: The rules below refer to some types and variants which have yet to be added to ACTASF, FC, and/or Starmada but which are due for eventual inclusion. If you see mention of a ship you donít have, just ignore it. At some future point, system specific rules might eliminate such future notices. OR MATTHEW CAN JUST DELETE THOSE MENTIONS FOR NOW.
=
The rules below refer to limits based on the total number of ships, not points. In effect, this encourages players to include a mix of all sizes of ships (frigates, destroyers, cruisers) in their fleet, which was the standard historical pattern. It was extremely rare to see a fleet consisting only of large ships. It was somewhat less rare to see a fleet consisting mostly of smaller ships, particularly when assigned to defend a sector.
==========
COMMAND LIMITS
=
The games Star Fleet Battles and Federation & Empire make extensive use of command ratings and command limits. The result is a limit to the size of a Battle Force of about 12 ships which is a reflection on what those game systems can handle. Federation Commander, A Call to Arms Star Fleet, and Starmada ignore such things entirely (and routinely handle fleets of 20 ships or more).
=
The rules below reflect the general idea of a 12-ship Battle Force, but players are perfectly welcome to say that they have combined two or more Battle Forces for this particular battle so there is no limit (other than assigned point value). If you have 13 ships, then (for purposes of these rules) you have one Battle Force of 12 ships and one Battle Force of one ship (i.e., you must completely "fill" one Battle Force of 12 before starting another, but you do not have to have 12 ships; you can use fewer). A Battle Force of one ship can have one of whatever a Battle Force of 12 can, but obviously cannot have one of each type since (after all) it is a Battle Force of one ship. A Battle Force of six ships (part of a task force or fleet of 18 ships) could indeed consist of one dreadnought, one police cutter, two escorts, one scout, and one free trader and be completely integrated into the other Battle Force. (The rules on "Battle Force of 12 ships" apply only to determining how many of each type of ship you can have, and have no impact on how you operate the ships in combat.)
==========
BATTLE FORCE LIMITS
=
These rules reflect that the "leader" and "special" versions of any class are fairly rare and have a specific purpose. If you use more of them in your fleet then some other fleet will be at a disadvantage because you stole all of their specials.
=
No Battle Force can have more than:
@ two flagships (any variant of battleship, dreadnought, heavy battlecruiser, heavy command cruiser, or command cruiser).
@ two scouts (any ship with special sensors or scout trait).
@ two escorts (any ship with aegis).
@ one "leader" (CC or CWL) beyond the squadron leader rules above or below.
@ two non-fleet units (police cutter, armed priority transport, free trader, prime trader, any variant of those) unless prohibited by judge.
Note that you do not have to include all (or even any) of the above. Those are a maximum, not a pre-designed fleet.
==========
SQUADRON LEADERS: SHORT VERSION
For every three ships of the same size/class (i.e., heavy cruiser, war/light cruiser, destroyer/war destroyer, frigate), one of the three may be the Leader or Command variant. If you have any questions about this, consult the long version of the rule.
==========
SPECIAL SHIPS AND SPECIAL CASES (Feel free to drop any or all of this section from the "short" version.
=
Certain special ships (e.g, drone combat variants such as the F5D, fast ships, and commando ships) are interchangeable with standard warships of the same hull type for the purposes of these rules and donít need their own limits. (Drone ships with special sensors are scouts, not combat variants.)
=
Freighters cannot be included in fleets but a scenario might define that a fleet is protecting or attacking freighters.
=
Players may include multiple police ships if building a fleet consisting only of police ships and auxiliary ships. Such a fleet could include one regular frigate/destroyer for every three police ships or auxiliaries.
=
Bases are normally defined by a scenario. Players can only include a base in their forces if they are defending a fixed locality such as a planet and the scenario rules allow them to buy a base as part of their forces.
=
There are a number of "limited production warships" in the universe, such as the OK6 (there was only one of those), and players may not have more than one of each "rare" ship. A current list of such ships available in (ACTASF) (Federation Commander) (Starmada) includes: Romulan K9R, Orion OK6, Hydran D7H; any ship with the "unique" trait.
=
In a campaign where players start with a force of ships and keep fighting with whatever survives each battle these rules apply only to the initial formation of the Battle Forces.
=
DEFINITIONS
Battleship: variants include BB, BBL, BBV, BBS, SDS,
Dreadnought: variants include: DN, DNH, DNG, DNL, C8, C5, C9, C10, Condor, Vulture, CVA, SDS, etc.
Heavy Battlecruiser: including BCH, C7, NovaHawk-K, RoyalHawk-K, KillerHawk, etc.;
=
FUTURE ADDITIONS: These include: carriers, fighters, minesweepers, drone bombardment ships, gunboats, gunboat tenders, maulers, tugs, transport variants of warships, X-ships, Andromedans, auxiliary ships, penal ships, and diplomatic ships. Fleet doctrine rules for these will be provided if and when they are added to ACTASF.
====END====

By Dal Downing (3deez) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 05:00 pm: Edit

The TK5 was dropped as a example of a "limited production warship" was this on purpose?

Under Definitions should there be a line covering the "not obviously named Command Cruisers" (like CB or RoyalHawk-A) and one for the "not obviously named Heavy Cruiser" (Gorn CM for example)?

Line on Campaign is ambiguous. Are you saying Campagin ignore these rules or just Mini Campagin ignore these rules?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 06:07 pm: Edit

TK5 I forgot. Somebody tell Matthew to add it unless he just dumps the whole list and relies on the unique trait.

CB is not a command cruiser but a heavy command cruiser. Not sure what a royalhawk A is.

Gorn CM is already on the NCA list.

The campaign line is more than adequate. Different writers use the terms campaign and mini-campaign to mean anything. The definition I gave covers the specific case under either definition.

By Dal Downing (3deez) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 08:01 pm: Edit

Ok I guess I see whats going on here the 02MAR13 is the Short List. Somewhere you will have the FULL list with CCs and NCAs defined just not here.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 08:31 pm: Edit

Right. The short version goes in his update 2 which refers to the long version if anyone has a question or argument.

I can post the long version next time I am in the office. Not sure if that will be tomorrow or Monday.

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar2) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 10:19 pm: Edit

SVC, the RoyalHawk is the R-torp variant of the NovaHawk (RegalHawk is the FireHawk R-torp variant), A-modules are the original SP module (1 PH-1), K-modules are the heavy cruiser (2 PH-1s)...

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 10:42 pm: Edit

Thanks.

By Tim Fitzmaurice (Myrm) on Thursday, March 28, 2013 - 09:23 am: Edit

With the latest fleet update could I make a request - when drone variants are considered firmed up enough, could unusual drone limits form part of this Fleet Doctrine concept, please?

It seems the perfect place to be included for all the same reasons that this document exists in the first place.

Tim

By Steven Jones (Finlos) on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 05:30 pm: Edit

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, I'm quite happy with ACTA saying 'all drones are Type-IF' and leave drone variants for SFB/FC.

By Tim Fitzmaurice (Myrm) on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 04:34 am: Edit

Is there any likelihood that Fleet Doctrine rules will be printed in the 1.2 rulebook....

I mean to include the free buy option all it take is a page at the start of the fleet lists stating 'There are three fleet purchasing concepts'

1) Free - buy anything
2) Doctrine drive - provides 'historical list' and the blurb.
3) Scenario defined - see scenario for limits

In doing so you please both crowds as they both have an 'official' rule for what its worth. I would really want a nice doctrinal list as an option myself - particularly for big fleets and as the variant hulls come in ever increasing numbers.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 06:24 am: Edit

I intended that to happen. That is why this topic is here.

By Bill Stec (Billstec2) on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 07:23 am: Edit

Sounds good, Steve.

For option 2, doctrine driven, is the plan to provide Orders of battle, or just let players pick what ships they want like a points battle, but with limits on certain types of ships?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 11:22 am: Edit

The fleet doctrine rules in this topic ARE option #2. They would also apply to scenarios without specific additional restrictions or exceptions.

By Tim Fitzmaurice (Myrm) on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 11:26 am: Edit

Woohoo then. I had hoped thats why this bit came over, Steve - half the problems people complained about with certain vessels came in my view of allowing them unrestricted in a way that then altered the points balance - common in many games and why so many have 'army lists' of some kind after all. A lack of understanding of how the SFU fleets assembled in players new to the universe, would be sorted by presenting that structure

Bill - For me a full OOB would be more a Scenario thing for doing the Andro invasion :).
More importantly I think it could potentially be a bit fluid depending upoon your frame of reference - I mean F&E alters the OOB from the 'historical one' each time you play potentially - so in the final product I would hope to be looking at a purchasing structure as the current documents are going towards. N cruisers before a variant, N cruisers before a BB type. If a ship is exceptionally rare, you can always tag it Unique and say only 1 per fleet if using the lists.


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