Maneuver Fixes

Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: A Call to Arms Star Fleet: ACTASF Book 1.2 (The ADB Revision): Maneuver Fixes
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Playtest Rules  1   12/11 03:49pm

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - 01:47 pm: Edit

Creating "Initiative Sink" is a staple of ACTA Systems. I doubt that, that will be allowed to be changed.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - 02:23 pm: Edit

No plans to change it. That's how the game works. Players can do what they want, of course.

By Dixon Simpkins (Dixsimpkins) on Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - 06:32 pm: Edit

Just for info -not advocating one way or other- Starmada has a rule such that; if your fleet is twice the size of your opponent, you move two ships, thrice: three ships, etc. It works well enough.

(However, Starmada also uses plotted movement so initiative isn't a big deal, anyway.)

By Dixon Simpkins (Dixsimpkins) on Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - 06:42 pm: Edit

With regard to the turn mode issue, I am in support of the idea (as explained by Lee Storey, Nov 24 2013, 6:44 am) of declaring movement but not actually moving to satisfy turn requirements. It's simpler than the "half-speed" idea, in that it doesn't worry about fractions, and is more versatile, too, . In fact, I think that's how I'll house rule it from now on - even if it doesn't make it into the revision.

[Edit: fixed my grammar]

By Jeffery Smith (Jsmith) on Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - 09:14 pm: Edit

eventually the X era will be written and if fast ships are moving 14" then the X ships could move 16". my concern when the game gets to this point is that if fast ships move 16" then how fast would the X ships go ? (I know that's a little ahead of things)

By Andrew E Schwenzer (Andrew_Cluetain) on Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - 09:33 pm: Edit

The Counter to initiative sink was just an idea, wanted to toss it out there. Also I realized that what I meant by turn modes was not clear. What I was thinking in greater detail is:
A: Figure out what Speed in SFB/FC each ship is going at. There should be only 3 of these, one each for slow ships, normal ships, and fast ships.
B: Check the turn mode chart for the relevant speed for each ship and look up how many hexes it must move between turns.
C: Convert that hex value to inches.
That way ships turn rate should match the rest of SFU material baring Crippling, HET's, and other such stuff. That said what also might want to be added is that all ships can make one 45 degree turn at the end of there movement if they did not already turn. That way some of the wider turning ships don't have to stop and pivot just to turn when crippled.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 12:42 am: Edit

In SFB and FC, fast ships and x ships still have the same top speed as regular ships in tactical combat. (they are faster in strategic movement, which is why they exist.) The difference is that a fast ship in tactical combat can go full speed and still do something. The best solution for SFU compliance would be to allow them to GO APE and still do another power drain option.

Really, Xships and fast ships are a special order issue, NOT a maneuver issue.

By Lee Storey (Storeylf) on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 04:33 am: Edit

The closest match for fast ships would be to allow 2 power drains, rather than simply APE and another. They had a lot of power, and could do a lot more power intensive stuff as a result. They could overload and go fast, or overload and have power for batteries, EM etc etc.

Talking of which will overload become a power drain rather than a move 6". It always felt odd that for a power based function I didn't get the same choice as with other power based functions.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 08:36 am: Edit

That works, but it belongs in special orders

By Ken Rodeghero (Ken_Rodeghero) on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 08:51 am: Edit

Could it be as simple as Fast/X-ships just not suffering power drain from any special order? Or is that not sufficient?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 11:02 am: Edit

This is a special orders discussion, not a maneuver discussion. Please go to the right topic. (The answer is under the new 1.2 special orders rules, you have to differentiate power drain and non-power drain orders.)

By Ken Rodeghero (Ken_Rodeghero) on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 12:39 pm: Edit

Sounds good. I did not see the other topic. I can see why the person new to the SFU might see a fast ship and think it would be, well, faster but maybe if they are faster when doing things that would be sufficient and accurately reflect the source material.

As far as maneuver, I would just like to see turning and agile addressed and I will be happy. I see that this is well in hand and am liking the suggestions so far.

Thank you for tackling this and I look forward to seeing and playing the results!

By Jeffery Smith (Jsmith) on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 07:43 pm: Edit

thank you Svc. was not sure I had put that in the right place.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 11:08 pm: Edit

I went over and opened the other topics.

By Tony L. Thomas (Scoutdad) on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 10:09 pm: Edit

Maneuver fixes:
We have completed the re-working of the maneuver system.
In the SFU - turn modes range from AA to H, but they also have 3 base speeds at which they can move.
The problem with converting them to ACTASF is that each of the turn modes overlaps at the various speeds. For example a turn mode A ship has a turn mode of 2 at speed 16 and 4 at speed 24 - but a turn mode B ship has a turn mode of 3 at 16 and 4 at speed 24. And the other modes have similar overlap.
How do you convert 9 overlapping turn modes into a consistent turn score in 12 inches of movement?

We finally settled on starting at 1 inch for Turn Mode A and AA and adding 1 inch to the turn score for every increase in turn mode after that.

That means that if the Seltorian Hive Ship(Turn Mode H) ever makes it into ACTASF - not only will Nerroth be ecstatic - the HS will be able to both move and turn in the same game turn!!!

In addition, AA mode ships gain the Nimble Trait and its benefits.
All ships have their turn scores reduced if they move at 1/2 or less) of their best possible speed.
Ships can now turn when moving in reverse, albeit not quickly - but they can turn.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Seems pretty straightforward.

To clarify, if a ship moves backwards, does that movement count as double when working out the "best possible speed"?

For example, a Fed CA has a Turn score of 4 under the new system. If its initial "best speed" going forward is 12", it gets a Turn score of 2 if it goes 6" or less going forward. But if it goes backwards, does it retain the Turn score of 4 if it goes from 4-6", and only drops down to 2 if it goes from 1 to 3 inches instead?

Or to put it another way, would it look like this:

Going forward, 1-6" = Turn: 2
Going forward, 7-12" = Turn: 4
Going backwards, 1-3" = Turn: 2
Going backwards, 4-6" = Turn: 4

Also, if a ship with Turn: 1 (Turn Mode A) goes half or less of its best speed, does it gain no benefit? (As in, it won't suddenly gain the Nimble Trait, if it doesn't have it already.)

By Tony L. Thomas (Scoutdad) on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 11:04 pm: Edit

A ship may choose to move backwards, perhaps to get a better track on an enemy or to maneuver out of danger. A reversing ship may only move a distance equal to one-half of its current, maximum movement allowance. Reversing ships can however; turn once they have moved their full, unmodified Turn Score in straight-line movement.

By Andrew E Schwenzer (Andrew_Cluetain) on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 04:06 pm: Edit

If I am reading this right it means a crippled ship can turn without all stop and pivot. Cool; that should help Crippled ships make it off board and not always be a sitting duck target.

By Tony L. Thomas (Scoutdad) on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 04:11 pm: Edit

Pretty much.
Some of the larger ships with really bad SFU turn modes wont be able to move and turn after receiving damage.

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