|Final Gorn Re-Scale||19||10/17 05:56pm|
|By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 09:02 pm: Edit|
|By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 09:03 pm: Edit|
|By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 10:25 pm: Edit|
Wow, the Gorns look small. They really should be bigger, IMO. First, those ships have healthy amounts of hull and the Gorns themselves are large.
I say add 10% to 20% in size.
|By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 11:31 pm: Edit|
Agree that the Gorn needs to be bigger. Just comparing the warp engines; the Gorn BC's look to be half the size of the Fed CA's, volume wise.
|By Iain McGhee (Iainmcg) on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 12:07 am: Edit|
Well, comparing the SL2400 models (Fed CA and Gorn BC) they're near-enough the right size. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be made a tad bigger, mind.
|By Dal Downing Rambler (3deez) on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 01:12 am: Edit|
Just looking at this what if you moved the BC Engine to the CL and the CL's engine to the DD. So what then, double the size of the BC engine and not the full support in bubble but the Half on the bubble would give you almost the same length as the Fed Ca and by Default the D7 as well right?
I agree a increase in size seems warranted but instead of adding length why not added by height.
|By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 01:16 am: Edit|
Fed warp engines are normally bigger than other people's. Compare with the D7 warp engines.
|By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 01:32 am: Edit|
I'd say it needs at least a 30% increase in size to be comparable in internal volume to the Fed CA, and at least a 40% increase in size to account for the fact that the beings inhabiting it are larger than humans.
|By Robert Sheets (Rangerrob) on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 02:19 pm: Edit|
These models might work for the CM and HDD. The war cruisers were suppose to cramped, right? The BC and the other standard war ships need more volume. I would just make these models taller not longer.
|By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 03:29 pm: Edit|
Actually, this looks about in scale with the current 2400s and if you slide the engines back - mounting them on the rear bubble - it will be the same length as the CA. Which would be perfect. ;)
|By Greg Maynard (Gregarious) on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 08:18 pm: Edit|
My first impression was "too small".
However looking again comparing just the hulls and not the engines, there is a lot of bulk in the Gorn bubbles and centre which looks pretty close to the Fed saucer and aft hull. I think its just the length which is throwing me off.
Anyone want to do some complicated volume calcs?
|By Mike Novean (Blackdice) on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 09:03 pm: Edit|
I made a 3d model of the gorn and scaled it close to the pictures relative to the fed CA diameter of 127.1m dia.
The volume that I got (including engine pods and supports) for the BC/CA is approximately 290,000 cubic meters.
|By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 02:47 am: Edit|
Without a Fed CA volume to compare to, we can't do much with that datapoint. I'd love to make that comparison.
In the meantime, I've gotten deep into my own analysis, using 2D methods. This image is the Mongoose models, with drawings of the SL2400 metal minis scaled to match (using the Fed CA as a Rosetta Stone).
I've not taken this any further than that yet.
The only conclusion I've drawn yet is that the bubbles really do look very thin, vertically. They've been enlarged somewhat, but not enough to match volumes.
The DD is looking to be too large, but I'm not willing to say any of them are too big or too small until I evaluate movement-costs and box-counts.
|By Troy Latta (Saaur) on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 02:09 pm: Edit|
DD has half the warp and half the move cost of teh CA/BC, so I'd presume it should have approximately half the volume. The problem with that reasoning is that the BDD adds more volume but the MC doesn't change at all (and the turn mode improves) so volume can't be the end of the story.
to come at it from a different direction, have we compared the size of the plasma launchers to the equivalent device on the Romulan hulls?
|By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 03:40 pm: Edit|
I should note that the side view of the BC in my drawing is based on the original painting guide, drawn by Richard Kerr. The metal minis are somewhat flatter (due to the mold-making process, etc.).
The ideal is somewhere between what Richard drew and what Mongoose has modeled. Personally, I've always really like the existing minis in side-profile.
New drawing comparing the "bubble" heights:
|By Mike Novean (Blackdice) on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 03:56 pm: Edit|
I got a start on the Fed CA model. I have the primary hull, dorsal connecting strut and part of the secondary hull modeled and have a volume of 153,000 cubic meters. Will keep on working it to get a volume as I have time.
|By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 05:09 pm: Edit|
From the vibe I'm getting, we'll need our final inputs on the Gorns in very, very soon. I'm intending to make my final analysis inputs tonight, but even that may be too late. Sandrine has a lot of ships left to do and the cut-off date looms near.
|By Greg Maynard (Gregarious) on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 07:30 pm: Edit|
From Will's comparisons so far it looks to me like the CA/BC size is fine (2200 was a bit smaller) but I agree that the bubbles are too flat and need to be a little thicker. I hadn't noticed how different the wings were but that doesn't bother me.
|By Mike Novean (Blackdice) on Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 02:44 pm: Edit|
I've got the Fed CA model mostly done (new picture here) and the internal volume is about 226,000 cubic meters.
Previous volume on the Gorn CA/BC of 290,000.
Given the physical differences between Gorns and Federation species, the scale is in the ball park in my opinion.
|By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 03:15 pm: Edit|
Mongoose says it's too much trouble to make the bubbles thicker as it would amount to a change of less than 1mm.
I am inclined to call this conversation successfully completed.
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