I am still waiting to see if SFW is indeed to be continued/updated/improved etc. I have several suggestions, but don't want to waste my time if nothing is being planned.

Randy

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 10:53 pm: Edit

Ramdy,
Yes it is. I am just waiting for the stuff from Bruce.

Paul Franz

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 11:56 am: Edit

Packet Recieved from Bruce

Give me a couple days to work out how everything works.

And a give me a couple weeks (i.e. the end of the month) to get everything setup and work out some of the details. I have got part of it designed. (i.e. the website initial design) I have setup a PayPal account to accept payments. But I need a little to setup the accounts stuff on the website.

Paul Franz

By Randy Hill (Blackrapier) on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 04:20 pm: Edit

OK Paul,
I was hoping that was the case! Let's kick some new life into SFW!!

By Randy Hill (Blackrapier) on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 11:52 pm: Edit

After rereading your reply, I hope you mean to do the changes/upgrades BEFORE starting up SFW again!

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 05:58 am: Edit

Randy,
What kind of changes are you expecting?

Note: I just want to make sure that I set expectations to the appropriate level.

Paul Franz

By Randy Hill (Blackrapier) on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 12:43 am: Edit

Let's see
1) Electronic rulebook
2) Updated ship list
3) Rewrite of the Aide file
4) I have a whole list of major & minor rules changes that players have discussed, such as:
Fighter hit points, treat PFs as small warships, Electronic Warfare, Carrier Escort rules, ship capture, advanced Mauler rules, in-game ship rebuilds (ie. a K-D7 to a K-D7V, or L-CL to a L-BC(H)), Andro PSS & EMs, allow Legendary Officers to stay on a planet with Listening Post when enemy captures the planet.

Lots more too, but these are some to consider for starting ideas.

Randy

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 09:00 pm: Edit

Randy,
1) I am considering this. It is one of those things that once it is released it can not be undone. So I am thinking hard about this. There are some updates that need to be incorporated from my understanding. And I need to cleanup the current electronic version that I had a friend create for me. Since Bruce lost his when the computer with the only soft copy died with that.
2) This shouod be easier to do. Though, I need to see what the changes are. I will assume that electronic version (used for running the games) is up to date.
3) I am not sure what exactly you mean here. Do you mean you would like to see the ship list file that is included with thw Aide updated or do you mean you want the Aide updated?
4) Understood. And I think I mentioned this in the un-moderated forum and that is I will look into changing the rules. BUT I will do it after getting them playtested. I think (for the most part) Star Fleet Warlord is a balanced game.

As it is, I was hoping to get things rolling first. So that things can keep moving. I will be accepting Fax orders.

The plan is to have two prices. One for faxed (and maybe snali mail) order (more expensive) and one for electronically submitted orders. (cheaper) There are more details that I will be releasing later.

Paul Franz

By Randy Hill (Blackrapier) on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 06:09 pm: Edit

1) I know of a couple other games that now have electronic rules. You pay a fee up front, them can download the rules. Rules are updated several times a year & you may download the updated rules for a year after the inital fee. Subscribers are given the option to renew their subscription annually for a small fee.

2) The version currently used for games does not have (for example) DNHs in the DB. Some stat changes are called for also, such as the T-DN series of ships. They are actually BC(H)s in all aspects for other races, so it would help the T to have these ships at speed 4 instead of 3.

3) The SFW Aide file is VERY old. Bruce lost the code source several years ago. It does not recognize some of the new orders. It will not use Omega races unless you manually remove the current ship DB & write in the Omega ships DB.

4) I volunteer as a playtester!

By Kelly Jernigan (Kell553) on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 02:56 am: Edit

I'm considering coming back. The LMC needs Cheese.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 08:58 am: Edit

1) My original plan is that the rules are pretty much free. (Since the rules are more like a users guide to using the SFW engine) This would happen after you signup for an account. A nominal fee will be required to signup and it will be put towards your first turn of play.

2) Understood about it not including some of the newer ships that are in SFB. But also, we don't want the list to get too large. I will examine the T-DN (I know when it comes to SFB the T-DN was a BCH for the most part).

3) I want to replace this with a Java application that will do the same thing with some additional functionality like submitting the orders directly from the interface. When it comes to support of the Omega races. I think I am going to need to work on that. Since, I think it requires change to the engine.

4) I will make sure that you are one of them.

Paul Franz

By G. Stephen Shoots (Iwantawataugota) on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Paul, If you are taking orders I'm up for a playtest.

By Randy Hill (Blackrapier) on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Paul
I know you want to get going soon & have a game or two operating so you can get a feel for them. On the other hand, a lot of the old timers quit because there had been no changes/updates for years. I believe you will lure more of the vets back in game by making at least a couple of changes to make things more intresting for them.

For newbies, they need a complete rulebook so the vets don't have an advantage on them by knowing some the quirks of SFW that aren't well documented.

Finally, one issue really needs to be addressed pronto. SFW turns are run sequentially in order of the players sequnce #. Vets know how to abuse this sequencing to their benefit. It is done as follows; Player A is fighting Player B. Player A holds his turn back for a late turn, thus moving to the end of the order que. Player A recruits a friend (Player C) to ship scan a sector where B has ships. Player C scans the ships after Player B moves BUT before A moves. He then sends the ship scan to player A who knopw has the prrecise position of all Player B ships in that sector. Player A then plots his movements, send in his turn & destroys many of Player B's ships.

Normally, you don't know the precise position of anyones ships, you must guess where they will be when you plot your movements. This buddy scan plan removes that uncertainty for one player. The only way to combat this problem currently is to hold back your turn until the very last day it can be run before submitting it. I have seen/heard of players losing 20, 30, 40+ ships in one turn in multiple battles because of this issue.

Randy

By Roger Rardain (Sky_Captain) on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 06:25 pm: Edit

Randy,

I was one of the playtesters for SFW's previous incarnation, Galactic Conquest.

The issue you are referring to is one of the reasons I stopped playing. Well, that and the cost.

I always thought turns should always be run in order, and late turns not allowed.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 08:56 pm: Edit

Randy,
The question is: how long are the vets willing to wait?

When it comes the above scenario, it is easily solved. Though, I am not sure people are going to like the solution:

1) ALL orders are processed and sent out at the same time. They will still be processed in the appropriate order BUT nobody gets "free peek" at the other players ships locations.
2) Hard deadlines. And if you miss a deadline your ships sit idle, though you still accumulate points. (Note: I know that might seem a little harsh but it is one way to guarantee that the game will keep going at the proper pace)

Paul Franz

By G. Stephen Shoots (Iwantawataugota) on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 11:04 pm: Edit

Paul, thats OK but sometims its not intentional that your order is late. Example_ I get my turn on Thursday after processing, I do it over the weekend (more time to think ) I send it Monday, from midwest it should only take 3 days (plenty of time ) but it doesn't arive till the next Monday after the new process date / I've never played other than by mail as I need to think about things. I make less mistakes that way, and I know a couple other old timers that feel the same way. Maybe I'll like useing the aid when its fixed, I will try it but I still shouldn't be penelised for a U S post office mistake.

By Roger Rardain (Sky_Captain) on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 12:05 pm: Edit

Out of curiousity, why is snail mail still used for SFW?

Wouldn't email be much more efficient?

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Stephe,
How about if I sent you a text file/Email that you could edit and Email back? You still get the same amount of time to think BUT you can get it to me quicker.

Paul Franz

By Randy Hill (Blackrapier) on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Roger
Many people DO use email for Warlord, a few just haven't stepped into the electronic age though.
Admittedly, this is in part due to the Aide being outdated & clunky.

Paul
A question here; Is it possible to run all the turns simultaneously for Warlord? I know Bruce programmed it to run 1 players turn at a time, but I'm just wondering if using a modern comp, they could do it simultaneously.

By Kirk Petty (Zugzwang) on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 12:33 pm: Edit

I am anxious for SFW to begin again. I believe to get a new game or two rolling as soon as possible
will be the best way to keep too many players from drifting off forever. The veterans will certainly play in a regular game and a playtest at the same time. Obviously if a fix is easy and inticing to veteran players it should be discussed in this forum briefly and implemented. The only caution is any changes should enhance game balance. The nasty tactic listed above of "painting" someones ships with the help of a friend must be eliminated. How to do this is a question to be answered by the elite of our game and the game moderator. If all of our turns run on a firm date and time, wont still player C still be able to paint for player A?After all, it is easy to figure out where your turns run in relation to someone else. What would happen if the ships all move at the same time and two (or rarely three) players ships all enter the same hex on the same pulse? Would eliminating the SE
order help?
I also like StarRaiders idea of the 6 ship package for 250 eps at the start. As Randy, Gene, Art, Ty and even Mike have demonstrated speed kills

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 03:38 pm: Edit

Randy,
What do you mean by "run all the turns simultaneously"? Do you nean have each person get to do have their movement for phase #1 (for lack of a better term for the first entry in the list of movement orders) then the next person get to do their momvenet fpr phase #1 until all are complete and then move to the next phase and have the first player to do theior phase #2 move? If so, I have thought about this and it definitely something I would like to look into. It would require a bit of work on the engine first. So it would take some time to do. But definitely I like the idea.

Kirk,
I don't see how the "painting" would work if there is no game update sent until everybody is done with the turn. Yes, some "painting" could still be done when it comes to scans. (i.e. one player does a scan for another) But I see no way to avoid this without removing the scans all together. All ships are known (except possibly cloaked ships) at all times. But I think that removes one of the neat aspects to SFW. The exploration and discovery portion. Not knowing that there is a ship in the next sector.

I do like the idea of an starting package that people can choose from.

I also like the idea of having the ability to select WHERE in a sector your home office is.

Paul Franz

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 05:26 pm: Edit

I think Roger means each ship moves its first pulse of movement at the same time. If ships run into each other they fight. Then each ship moves it's second pulse, and so on.

Edit - Oops, I ment Randy.

By Randy Hill (Blackrapier) on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Paul
"Move ships simultaneously", yes I mean ALL ships in a given game that would move on pulse 1 would move, the game engine looks for hexes containing ships from more than 1 Corp & resolves combat for each hex. Then the engine moves ALL ships eligible for pulse 2 movement & resolves combat, etc through pulse 6.

As a little something to liven things up, the use of the AC order (Ally Corp) would mean that ships of allies in the same hex would NOT fire on one another but would be allowed to occupy the same hex. Multiple Corps in the same hex for combat would be resolved as it is now (ie total AF for a
Corp divided by total # of enemy ships present).
Ships that moved would use AF for combat, ships that DID NOT move that pulse would use DF for combat. Combat would continue from Round 1 to Round ? until only 1 Corp has ships remaining in that hex.

By Randy Hill (Blackrapier) on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 05:48 pm: Edit

Also the ship limit needs to be addressed. Bruce set a limit of 200 ships Max for a Corp because the battle reports generated by more ships than that crashed his network. In the first game where I passed this 200 amt, Bruce had to turn off his network to run my turns. He then set the 200 limit.
From what I gather, this limitation was due to the comp he was using to run the turns, not the actual software itself.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 06:23 pm: Edit

Randy,
What happens if all the ships move on that pulse? Who gets to be the Attacking Force and who is the defending? If both get the AF, then how do you calculate percentage used to whether to bounce off (i.e. retreat)? And as you pointed out, multi-sided combat (where nobody is an allie) could occur. In that case, how would you resolve the combat? (Note: this might be simpler then I am making it seem. Or I am missing something simple. In which case bare with me)

Paul Franz