Archive through May 19, 2005
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Warlord: Warlord Discussions:
New life for Warlord?:
Archive through May 19, 2005
Ithink the only way to prevent the paint would be to run starbase orders first and have everyone turns run pulse by pulse Also eliminating the SE order or limiting it to an adjacent sector might help
Kirk,
That would mean the SB scan would be a turn old. I am not sure if old intelligence is still good. I like the idea about the SE order.
Also, since the SB orders would be after ALL movement has occurred. I am not sure who this is "painting", except for the first player in the list. Of course, if we can workout the glitches in Randy's idea. (all movement occurrs at the sametime) This becomes a non-issue. Since nobody has the advantage of order in the list.
Which actually, brings up another solution to the ordering thing. Make the order random. So you never know if you are ahead or behind that person in line. It adds a level of randomness and some people might not like it since it is akin to an initiative roll. But it also an idea. It is simpler than Randy's "everybody moves at once" in that the old rules still hold true.
Paul Franz
It may not be liked. BUT it would be simplest rules wise to use a random rolling process.
I am interested in WL even though I've never played. But giving old hands the full rules/quirks of the system to exploit can and probably will chase off newbies. That was ONE of the things that kept me from signing up at first.
I thought about the random sequencing but could that lead to double turning somebody-- Example if I run 31st this turn and my opponnent runs 17th,he moves then I move. Randomization ocurs now I am 6th and he is 14th. My turn runs ahead of him so in effect I have moved twice to his once
Maybe the simplest is to make the SE order available to an adjacent sector that way Player A could not enlist his friend Player C when the are seperated from the action. If player A and C are each adjacent to an enemy well they probably be working together anyway. If we cant get rid of it all together thats better than nothing
Paul,
Say 3 fleets move in to the same hex on the same movement phase. they would each "scan" the others individually. If they were all within the correct peramitors to each other then combat would occure, with each corp splitting thier AF between all ships against them just as in normal 1 on 1 combat. If 1 would "bounce" then normal combat would occure between the other 2. If 2 retreat the larger fleet would move on. If there were a battle between all 3 it would seem it should be even more random as to who would win. Possibly there would be no "winner" All ships could possibly be destroyed. Now in the case of a bounce, I believe it should be a minimum of 2 hex (slow warp gate speed) or 1/2 the speed of your fastest ship. This would keep 2 things from happening 1. The 1 remaning fleet that bounced takeing advantage of the fleet that just did battle and is possibly heavely damaged and 2. If 2 of the fleets are allied within the game then the weaker of the 2 must bounce when encoutering the 3rd fleet, to keep a balance to the came or 2 corps could use this alliance to great advantage.
Kirk,
I'm with you. I don't like the random sequencing thing. I do like simotanious moves each ship movement round. that solves the problem of scans because everyone gets them at the same time, and for the same instant, at the end of the turn. No one has an advantage because everyone knows where everyone elses ships are in "real time" It also solves the problem of a corp at the end of the sequencing who is fighting a corp next to his and at the beginning of the sequencing.
Stephen
From the games I played, I liked a set sequence.
Its biggest problem was late turns, and I am thinking you simply don't allow them or only so many per game.
Having everyone move at the same time sounds good, but it would affect everything about the game. Not only would have to change rules and define new rules, you couldn't even run a turn unless everyone has turned their turn in.
As far as the SB Scan Order and giving its results to someone else. I'd either remove this order altogether or change it so it only shows terrain. You have to use a scout or a base in the sector to get ships...
Just my 2 cents.
Paul
As I envision the combat for simultaneosu movement, I see the following: 1) All ships eligible for movement on that particular pulse are moved.
2) The engine scans for multiple Corps in the same hex. When it finds such a hex, it then calculates each fleets total AF & DF.
3) If a particular fleet moved that turn, the AF of that fleet is compared to the AF (of other Corps MOVING fleets) or DF (of other Corps NON-MOVING fleets) to calculate the possibility of a BOUNCE.
4) Combat is the easy part. Moving fleets use their AFs, Non-moving fleets use theirs DFs for combat calculations. The current combat calculation is to take Total AF or DF & divide
by the total # of enemy ships present. This value (X) is then divided by 10. X/10 is then the number of 10 sided die rolls to asess damage. Remainders are a die roll value of the same # as the remainder. (Example- Total AF is 648, # of enemy ships is 16, # of 10 sided die rolls is 648/16 = 4.5 per ship, so you have 4X 1d10 + 1X 1d5 for damage. The Max damage you can get is 45, the Min damage is 5, AVG is 25. This calculation is done each combat round for each ship present in the battle.)
5) Simply extend this calculation to ALL enemy ships present in the battle hex for multiple Corps present in a single hex. It is basically what is done now for 2 Corps extended for multiple Corps.
Paul,
Kirk is right about the randomizing of the sequence, it would lead to double turns -- definitely a No-No!!
The 'painting' player can be anyone in the sequence, as long as his turn runs after the player being painted & before the player who will hit the ships being painted. Say A sequence # is 1000, B is 2000, C is 3000. A moves normally, B moves normally & scans where A ships are after A's movement. B sends this info to C, who now knows EXACTLY where A's ships are. C plots movement, sends in his turn & wallops A.
With a hard turn date, the 'paint' can still be done. Same players & sequence #s as above. Slightly different scenario.
Say we are on Turn 10, A, B ,C run turns in sequence. This time C is 'painting' B ships for A. Because of the turn sequence A runs before B, so the info from C from the previous turn is 'Real Time' for A vs B.
C sends his scan info from Turn 10 to A. On Turn 11, A plots his ship movement based on C's scan of B's ships from Turn 10. Since A moves before B does guess what happens next? 
Randy,
Thats what I was trying to say above, but there is still the problem of A & B corps being allied and move into ahex with C corp. A & B will not attack each other but both will attack C, whereas C must attack and defend against both A & B makeing him a sure loser.
Stephen
My 2 cents.
I'd like to see the late turn eliminated also (to stop the abuse as discussed previously). However, having said that, there is no reason to keep the 2 week turn deadline. Perhaps a 17 day or even 21 day turn would be feasable. This would aid the players using regular mail.
If I could change one thing about about the mechanics of SFW, I would have the "scan ship" scans by bases and scouts go after all movement by all players has been completed.
Ken,
Actually, that is what is being discussed here. We are trying to eliminate one of the "cheats". Which in everybody minds is a clear abuse of the system.
Randy,
I overall like your idea and definitely something that I would like to work through play test.
Stephen,
I would like to keep the SB Scan orders but limit them to only adjacent sectors. This would allow people to use the SBs to see the enemy coming, but not abuse the power of the SBs in give info on any sector requested.
John,
Definitely, I want to eliminate the late turns (and will when the above ca nbe worked out) Also, I am hoping to eliminate regular mail. Or at least strongly encourage people to submit turns electronically or at via Fax using the amount that I charge for each turn.
Paul Franz
Paul
If you are looking for a quick temporary fix, then eliminate late turns & limit Starbase scans to the sectors adjacent to the SB ordering the scan. This will eliminate most of the potential for abuse of the turn sequence.
Randy,
As a first step, I will probably do that.
Paul Franz
Paul
The sequence of play is fine.
You will always have late turns,that`s life.
Holiday-no mail,forgot about the turn,computer crash
If your turn is late there should be a penalty. RANDOM
Loss of 20% order lines-
Loose 20% of income-
Loose25% of PRSP-
Ships cost 15% more-
People will QUIT if they loose a turn.That won`t help the game. Replacement players some times get up to 3 turns to "catch up".There has to be some kind of late turn. We need a "Regular game",7 sectors or 82 sites to win, lasts 20 -25 turns.
It`s more of a FUN game, not sure when it ends.
More people will sign up for these games,NEWBEEs.
The starbase orders are fine.Worried about SX ?
Thats what cloaks & decoys are for.You will never stop players from working together.Diplomacy is the best part of the game.Your not playing against a computer your playing against people.
HAVE FUN ,IT`S A GAME
DOC
Art
When someone wipes out another player in 3 sectors in 2 turns, killing over 100 ships in the process because they know the EXACT position of that players ships -- THAT IS AN ABUSE! Players can/will/have quit because of it. The game IS going to change, when newbies have a more equal footing with the vets, we will have more newbies. I have already seen this process in 2 online games that I have played in the past 3 years. Same will apply to SFW.
If Paul goes entirely electronic/email returns, players will have 2 weeks to get their turns ready. If you wait 12 days before doing your turn & then something comes up, then that is your fault. With snail mail, turns take up to 5 days to get delivered each way, so some people have no more than 4 days to do a turn now. If a comp goes down, go to your friends house & retrieve your mail. Lots of options out there.
Arthur,
I read the un-moderated board. And it seems that the "painting" of players is used by some players to cheat. I want all the games to be fair and nobody to have an unfair advantage. Having people create alliances and working together is part of the game.
Paul franz
I feel something is about to happen I hope it will be an announcement soon!
You think so?
I hope so !!!!!!!!
All the players are getting fat brains, little
used if not for SFW.
SEEYA
DOC
Ok guys here it what is happening currently.
I am working hard to setup an initial website. Mainly, allow people to create account and use PayPal to pay for the accounts. To setup an account will cost $1.00. This will be applied to your account and you can use it to paying for turns. What will be available:
1) Submit using Faxing or Email
2) The price of a turn will be based on the method of delivery and format. (i.e. if you submit it via Email sending the turn file from the Aide tool it will be cheaper)
The plan is to have ALL delivery done via the Internet. Either an Email or visit the web site logging in using your callsign/password.
Current maps will be available anytime requested. (Note: they will not be updated without the appropriate scans)
Current prices will be $7 per turn for Fax or Email where the Aide tool is not used to submit the turn.
It will $4 per turn for Email that sends the Aide generated file.
Currently, if you want to use the Aide tool on Mac it needs to be running OS X and use DOSBOX. (Go to http://dosbox.sourceforge.net to get it)
I will be creating a Java-based client to do the samething as the current Aide tool. After I get the web-site up and running, this will be my #1 priority.
Bote #1: I am working hard to get this all done by the end of the week. BUT I will not announce that it is ready until I know that things are solid.
Note #2: I will not be taking over current games. Bruce wanted to finish those.
Any questions or comments?
Paul Franz
All Right good news!!!! I hope the best players
will all support this rebirth, even if all the ideal changes are not there yet.
Well I for one am ready for a good game of SFW (maybe a fast 1 week turn around?)! I have nearly completed my DeTox from the on-line game I have played for 4 yrs -- Mankind. It is dying an ugly death, tons of cheats, players leaving the game & the game owners apparently too inept to fix ANYTHING!!
Paul, I applaude the way the pricing is applied to SFW. Money talks & a difference of $3 per turn should goose most players to use the aide -- meaning less work for you!! I like the idea of being able to logon on to the website & enter my turns directly too! The map feature will be a life saver for those of use prone to losing maps or spilling a drink on them!
I look forward to a Java based Aide so new features can be incorporated into it over time.
One question -- Are you doing a complete assembly of the current rules? All the material for SFW needs to be assembled in one document. Would be great if done in a PDF file so we could download it too.
Randy,
The one thing I need is the newsletters that have some rules modifications to complete this. I have the rules in electronic form (though without the graphics) and that is the last thing I need to update the rules.
Paul Franz
Paul
There was a link on the old Agents of Gaming website where you could get all of the newsletters in electronic format. I'll go check for it again.