Non-playtest.

Added in Cap 27. (509.1) Tug Mission U. Tug can carry 24 factors of DB, LTTs can carry 12.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 11:48 am: Edit

Was added when it was determined that you cannot use DB when out of supply.

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 11:58 am: Edit

Cool - I missed that. Thanks for the reference Chris.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 12:13 pm: Edit

I try to be useful

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Hey Chris?!?

There might be a LONG list of people who would question that sentiment

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 06:36 pm: Edit

Really? I think not. I can think of three, that's nothing.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Note Chris' statement:

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I try to be useful

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By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 10:43 pm: Edit

??



Ah, yes. That would explain things nicely...Cfant does not see the world as the rest of humanity does...may be best to leave it at that.

Chris...you make note of three...but are you sure you have identified the correct three?!?

By Jeff Laikind (J_Laikind) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 11:42 pm: Edit

Chuck, since (WC.21) covered retreats into neutral WYN space, I thought that retrogrades into neutral WYN space should be covered as well.

Perhaps, instead, WC.21 should be for retreat and retrograde while WYN cluster is neutral. WC.22 then could cover both instances when the cluster isn't neutral.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 12:57 am: Edit

Pushing Jeff, pushing....

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 09:26 am: Edit

Chris, In this case, my comments were meant in humor.

Chuck, Nice set of playtest rules...one question:

In the event the WYN survive an invasion...(see WC.61):

(WC.61) If any attempt the invade the Cluster results in any WYN world being involuntarily devastated, the WYNs with join the other non-offending side for six turns. At the close of the sixth turn the WYN will then declare their neutrality and all units must leave the Cluster that turn or be interned.

...does the WYN hex (and any captured hexes out side of the WYN hex)("Liberated hexes") form a partial supply grid? or does it become part of the supply grid of the "non-offending" player?

The reason I ask is the possibility of an "Imperial WYN empire" where the WYN start to capture on map hexes that weakened Klingon/Lyran/Kzinti empires are unable to defend (or one of the 3 major races actively supports the expansion of the WYN empire!)

NOT saying its likely, just that you might want to consider the possibility...

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 11:00 am: Edit

I may add a rule that due to WYN limited deployments and cluster effects that WYN supply can only be traced two hexes beyond the cluster hex. That means the WYN would require a SMN outside the cluster to expand beyond the cluster. But that is VERY unlikely unless they have A LOT of help from others.

All of this assumes ADB even wants to do something like this.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 12:44 pm: Edit

Chuck, that will make the War of Return, very difficult.

Perhaps easier to give special deployment rules on most cluster ships (other than Fish Type), similar to the Tholians?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 01:09 pm: Edit

Chris:

Concur -- WYN rules must align with history (WoR). The MSC already list most non-fish/Orion hulls as limited deployment. The ships are noted with the "L" on the counters.

IIRC, in WoR, the Count was helping out the Fish (supply?), was he not?

My thinking is that WYN Cluster should be an extremely hard nut to crack defensively, but not a safe-haven to conduct offensive operations and still be in supply 6 hexes away from the cluster. The cluster barrier needs to impede supply in some way.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 01:21 pm: Edit

Hmm, I cannot remember....gotta go dig out the C modules

By Jeff Laikind (J_Laikind) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 01:51 pm: Edit

The WYN were also attempting to capture a BATS to serve as a supply point(which supports Chuck's supply range limit).

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 09:21 pm: Edit

Chuck's supply range limit (CSRL for short?!?) is reasonable...in concept no different from a Beach head in an amphibious invasion or a break thru point on a river crossing...once thru the WYN Radiation barrier ships are going to need to refuel and CSRL would limit the placement of a SMN to with in the 1 or 2 hex range.

Jeff L's point about the vulnerability of the supply point would closely approximate the SFB history of the WOR.

It also, coincidently, places a huge burden on the WYN player as not only does he have to destroy the patriarch...but he has to build a supply grid as he goes...and all those new Mobile Bases, tugs and merchant convoys is going to cost E.P. that could have gone into ship production.

By David Kass (Dkass) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Edit

You might want to add even further limits on the auxiliary ships. I was thinking along the lines of being completely unable to leave the cluster.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 02:20 am: Edit

David:

Check out SFB rule (R12.1F): limited deploy includes the area immediately outside of the cluster. Two hex deployment gives "L" units a chance to react back to the cluster for defense. Two hex limitation for all "L" units falls into TLAR range.

By David Kass (Dkass) on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Chuck, (R12.1F) is clear in referring to the modified warships that are limited deployment. It does not apply to the auxiliary warships (R12.1E) based on freighters. Those were the ones I was suggesting limiting to only being in the WYN hex. I can't think of any scenario with one of the auxiliaries well outside the cluster (I have a vague recollection there is one scenario with an auxiliary minesweeper immediately outside the WYN radiation zone--ie on a map with the zone).

By Jeff Laikind (J_Laikind) on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 01:40 am: Edit

David, the scenario is in the Red WYN Express campaign, called "At the Wire." The AuxMinesweeper comes on the map with no crew on board, which must be transferred from the other WYN ships. "There is no way that the AuxMS could move through the radiation zone fast enough to keep the crew alive, and in fact the only ships the WYN have that can are their Orion ships and their newer construction 'fish ships'."

Given this, these ships would possibly have to stop in the hex immediately outside the WYN cluster for crew transfer. And be at an additional penalty during the first combat round if they fight in that hex.

By David Kass (Dkass) on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 01:53 am: Edit

That was the scenario I was thinking of. I had forgotten the no-crew part of it. I think it would just be easier to flat out deny the aux ships the ability to leave the cluster. There are any number of scenarios showing extreme special measures that are not reflected in F&E.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 12:23 pm: Edit

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I think it would just be easier to flat out deny the aux ships the ability to leave the cluster.

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By Trab Kadar (Trab) on Friday, April 08, 2005 - 05:41 pm: Edit

SVC, would it be possible to publish Chuck's WYN playtest rules and SIT in the upcoming CL31 as part of a Civil Wars preview? (See his posts on 3 April & 15 June 2004 in this topic.)

His proposal looks very well done and could serve as a basis for your final product. I would also like to use his proposed ships in a War of Return scenario I am putting together for my group.

Thank you for you consideration,
Trab

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, April 08, 2005 - 06:38 pm: Edit

I haven't seen it, but I will be working on CL31 next week.