Since the earliest versions of this game, I've always had the wild urge to rearrange the Romulan fleets to reflect their generation with the old-style ships on the Gorn border and the KRs on the Fed border and the new ships kept at the capital as the Home Fleet.

I understand why they turned out the way they did. In the beginning, all the Romulans had were old-style ships and they were spread throughout their fleets. When the KRs came on the scene, they were substantially better than the previous generation and were accordingly spread throughout their fleets. The same is true of the new ships. Organizational inertia kept them in their original fleet assignments until the start of the General War.

What if that hadn't been the case though? The only real problem that I see with this is that the KR-class ships are too few in numbers to make a credible fleet. It would be a serious disadvantage for the Romulans to start out with only those ships on their Federation border. Does anyone have ideas on useful ways this could be balanced for them while still keeping the flavor of this idea intact?

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Ahmad,
here would be the porposed fleets...

FotN: 2xVUL, 3xKE, 30xWE, 3xFAL, 3xCE, 4xBH, 2x[2WH+2BHE], 12xSNB, 12xSN, 4xSE, 2x[3FE]

Home: 2xCON, SHR, 3xSUP, 3xFH, FFH, 24xSP, 2xSPF, SPG, 3x[SPB+2SKE], 10xSK, 2xSKG, 3x[SKB+SKE], 2xSKF 3xSPC

FotW: KC9R, 3xKRC, 3xK7R, 6xKR, 4 KRM, 4xK5Q, 12xK4, 3xK5S, 2xKRT

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 03:45 pm: Edit

FotN: 98.5 SE / 439 compot / 8 ew / 10 ftrs
Home: 77 SE / 452 compot / 13 ew / 48 ftrs
FotW: 47 SE / 288 compot / 3 ew / 0 ftrs

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Mike, the SE count seems to be off, I count..

FotN 88.5
Home: 77
FotW: 46

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 05:36 pm: Edit

Original Fleets:

Fotn: 54.5 SE/ 314 Compot/5 EW/16 Fighters
Home: 70.5 SE/424 Comot/14 EW/21 Fighters
FotW: 85.5 SE/ 471 Comot/ 7 EW/ 20 Fighters

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 08:51 pm: Edit

Thats what I get for doing it on the fly at work in my head. I agree with your numbers of SE.

By John Pepper (Akula) on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 08:58 pm: Edit

Its an interesting situation, before strat moves, based on pinning strength it increases the chances that the Gorn's will lose their capital, and makes it almost impossible for the successfully drive to Federation capital. You could argue this is a more realist deployment from the standpoint that the Romulan's are more interested in the Gorn's then the Fed's but it is unlikely that the Klingon's would allow this deployment because it places greater burden on them.

By John Pepper (Akula) on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 09:01 pm: Edit

What you might do to correct for the shift is increase the fleet of the north's deployment area or more likely rebalance the Federation Gorn border fleet.

By John Doucette (Jkd) on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 06:15 pm: Edit

Happily enough, my playing group has already combat-tested this generational approach to Romulan operations and the judgement is, it doesn't work. Looks great on paper, but the problem we found was that there wasn't enough of the right ships in the three generations, individually, to allow the Roms to do anything. The old fleet doesn't have the combat power to do anything other than die heroically, the KR fleet is strong, but brittle, and shatters after its first major battle, and the new fleet, while mostly balanced, is so small that about all it can do is cower under the guns of fixed defences until production begins to fill it out.

By David Slatter (Davidas) on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 04:50 am: Edit

John

Of course, this arrangement will significantly peanlise the Roms. But in reality, the fleets would probably be arranged something like this to simplify logistics. One aspect sadly not reflected in F&E.

By John Doucette (Jkd) on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 10:00 pm: Edit

In reality, David, yes. Which is why the re-org looked so good on paper but failed during game play. Part of the trade-offs in a game so huge, I suppose, though I am reminded somwhat fondly of Victory Games' Gulf Strike, or Imperium Romanum II, both of which required tracking and expending supply points. In defence of F&E, both those games used substantially less counters.

I do wonder if some sort of old generation parts rule might not be implemented (perhaps requiring the Roms to designate a SB as the old generation parts production centre), to compliment the KR parts rule, along with some sort of change to the overall parts rule. Possibly some sort of small surcharge per repair facility that conducts repairs on old or KR ships; this would encourage deployment of such ships in a single theatre.

By jason murdoch (Jmurdoch) on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 11:34 am: Edit

John

Did you group use the 'THE ANCIENT WINGS' romulans from starletter such as the upgraded battle hawk and FHA falcon mauler? If a few of the php-shipyards designs were sneaked in as well the romulan compot would improve

By Joe Stevenson (Ikv_Sabre) on Tuesday, May 09, 2023 - 11:14 pm: Edit

I know this is an old discussion, but I found it interesting.

What if the KRs were focused in the Tholian Border Squadron? Still able to hit the Feds, and also able to deal with the Tholians.

And the pre-war construction ships would be focused on the Feds.

Or, have the KRs start on the Fed border, and move older hawk series ships off the Fed border as they are replaced by Kestrels.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, May 10, 2023 - 11:56 am: Edit

Joe, out of curiosity, what difference would this redeployment make?

By Joe Stevenson (Ikv_Sabre) on Wednesday, May 10, 2023 - 03:49 pm: Edit

My perception is that the original post was more likely for flavor than anything else, although this would also give the Roms better forces at start (Y173, T10) against the Feds, as they'd have fewer old hulls in the Fleet of the West and Tholiab Border squadron.

This would not be insignificant. Having been on the attacked and defending end of the battle for the Federation 7th Fleet starbase, having stronger forces would make a big difference. The initial forces able to attach that starbase are comparatively weak. I've had my fleet trashed taking it out, and I've successfully trashed multiple Romulan fleets defending it againts 2.5:1 and even 3:1 numerical odds, because the Romulan western forces are so weak.

Add to that the benefit of making it ever so slightly easier to keep the Kestral hulls with a valid supply path to the Klingons, so there would be less of an issue losing the ships to maintenance attrition.

I can see this as a balance option for an inexperienced Romulan player vs. a veteran Federation player, or to balance out some other pro-alliance balance option. Don't ask me to come up with the value though, as I find the exiting balance option values probably could use some review. But I think it's a worthwhile option to have.