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So CT7 is a critical turn for the Coalition because it gives them a chance to attack Federation star bases before they can add additional defensive ships. However, given that neither my opponent nor I have played that many games, we're not sure how good is "good."

On CT7, I killed the third fleet starbase, the fourth fleet starbase, the Marquis starbase, and all Fed battle stations from 2103 to 2615. I also captured planets 1910, 2214, 2106, and 2306. I should have cleared out everything in Marquis space, but because of a brain cramp on my part, I attacked the starbase first, allowing ships on the starbase to retreat to 1803 and therefore hold that battle station.

How does this compare to the "average" game?

My opponent was ready to concede, but I convinced him that the Federation is always going to get hurt CT7 so the game isn't necessarily over yet.

Elsewhere, the Hydrans have been pushed completely offmap and the Kzintis only hold 1401, with all planets except Kzintai devastated.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 03:40 am: Edit

John

For a turn 7 attack that is probably modestly above average!

It all depends if the Alliance hold 1401 and 617 still - i.e. if the Coalition have avoided capturing either - getting all 4 SB's is the target.

If one is captured (and held) - Coalition are probably happy as as minimum to get 2 SB's on turn 7 (4th and Marquis I would say) and push deep into Fed space to force the Feds to defend large areas on turn 8.

So in your game, with 617 Coalition held (and Hydrans off map) and 1401 devastated - I would say the Alliance is though perhaps abit behind the Curve though - as pushing the Hydrans off map is not easy, if the Coalition is going for a turn 7 Fed attack.

In other words - doing that much damage to the Alliance and attacking on turn 7 is fairly unusual.

How many ships have each side lost and are the Hydrans pinned in effect from re-entering the map?

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 08:54 am: Edit

>> How does this compare to the "average" game?

That looks above average to me for the Coalition. And, although it may look a little dark for the Alliance, realistically the Coalition *must* do well in their early Fed assault or else the Fed bounce back will be so hard the Coalition will lose.

That's the knife edge of balance between the two sides.

--Mike

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 10:38 am: Edit

The Hydrans are effectively pinned. The Lyrans have enough ship equivalents in 0217 (including an MB that will be upgraded) to stop the Hydrans at the edge of their offmap area. Most of the larger Klingon ships have been redeployed east, but it'll take another turn or two to transfer the remaining smaller ships.

Ship losses so far:
Kzintis: 12xEFF, 3xBC, 4xCL, FF, DF
Lyrans: 11xCW, 3xCL, 3xFF, DD, 2xCA, 5xDW, BC, CC
Klingons: 5xD6M, 13xD5, 4xF5L, 2xF5, 2xD7, 5xE4, D7C
Hydrans: CR, HN, PAL, 3xRN, 2xCU, LM plus a pile of cripples that probably won't be fully repaired until the new shipyard is paid for.
Federation: none so far

The Klingons had to pull a lot of ships out of Federation space for repairs (potentially 85 points of repairs; only repaired 62 to buy the full build schedule) so the follow-up attacks on CT8 won't be as strong as CT7.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 12:02 pm: Edit

John,

Are you playing with all rules or just the boxed set?

I ask, because there's a school of thought (to which I belong) that the "full game" (i.e., all expansions) is vaguely pro-Alliance but that the "basic game" (i.e., just the boxed set) is vaguely pro-Coalition.

From a "full game" perspective, I think the Coalition is doing *very* well. From a "basic game" perspective the Coalition is doing somewhat above average.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 12:05 pm: Edit

Those losses seem fairly low for the Coalition and fairly high for the Alliance.

Taking 617 will cost alot of ships - and the numbes don't seem to be there.

Especially if the Hydrans still have a pile of cripples? Did they overdefend 617 and so the other SB's died easily (or over crippled in 617 and so when they ran, they then couldn't defend the SB's)?

2:1 losses at this stage seem a tad generous towards the Coalition with what has happened.

What happens in the average battle?

(i.e. in a pinnng battle - do both sides direct on the biggest target and 1 side runs - hence why lots of EFF's die - but there isn't many smaller ship losses for the Coalition)

Taking down SB's unles the SB is massively underdefended will see the Attacker takes losses....

(Which should never happen to the Kzinti or Federation - but can happen to the Hydrans if they are overun - but the Kzinti SHOULD be damage in the north).

i.e.. I can't see how the Coalition got so many ships into the Federation - while doing the damage they have done??

P.S. 85 points of repair and 62 points repaired - is not much (I have seen the Coaliton often spend 60 Ep's on Repairs by the Lyrans and 40+ for the Klingons - so 62 points is only 31 Eps!) - so what happened to the damage by the alliance?

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 12:55 pm: Edit

This is our second game with me being the Coalition and him playing the Alliance. In the first game, he seriously under-defended 0617, allowing me to bypass the SBs and capture 0617 on CT4 - which ended the game.

In this game, he overcompensated. With virtually everything in 0617, on CT4 I killed the essentially free Hydran SBs (they only had some frigates on them) and sent a raiding party into 0617 to kill 4 PDUs on Hydrax and as many as the dice allowed on the other two majors (it ended being 3 and 4). I then retreated to avoid fighting through the minus points.

Since these attacks didn't create that many cripples, I was able to turn most of them around for a consolidated assault on CT5. I intentionally allowed the Hydrans to "escape" by capturing the major before fighting 0617. I figured having them offmap and pinned as early as possible outweighed trying to kill the fleeing cripples.

I was referring to EPs spent on repairs, not repair points - poor phrasing on my part. Also, I probably should have mentioned that the Lyrans had several FRDs in Klingon space that were also repairing Klingon ships. So across all sectors, the total potential repair bill after CT7 was 129 EPs (plus about another 6 EPs worth that exceeded available repair capacity). Of these, the Lyrans repaired 42 EPs worth and the Klingons 62 EPs worth.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 01:44 pm: Edit

A vigorous Alliance defense requires, even for the Hydrans, a full fleet (~15-20 ships) at each SB.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 01:45 pm: Edit

Sounds like u guys are on a normal learning curve trajectory for F&E. Enjoy the ride!

--Mike

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 03:23 pm: Edit

The Hydran player has got to have made serious mistakes to lose 617 on turn 4....

...and as you have said, overdefended it on this occasion - the question is, what did the Hydrans do on turn 3 and what reserves did the Hydrans have for C4?

Normally, the Hydrans re-inforce the Old Colonies as a fleet - with a new flag ship and a couple of FF's - so if 617 is attacked, it can be released and if 617 isn't attacked, the re-inforcements can be used with the reserve counter.

The other reserve should be in 617 and so if 617 isn't attacked in strength, it can re-inforce a SB.

The question though is - if 617 was clearly only a raid - the Hydrans should be accepting the approach battle and trying to burn through fighters like mad.

Giving uo the SB's cheaply isn't ideal - but as Ted mentioned - the Coalition shouldn't be able to do all they hvae done - what damage dsid the Coalition take ofer 1401 in devastating all the plaents?

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 03:24 pm: Edit

Sorry, Ted. I missed your earlier post.

We're playing the base game. He has a few of the expansions, but I don't. This is about my tenth game, none of which have gotten beyond CT8 (and this is only the second to make it that far). I really want to make it deeper into the game before I add expansions and make things more complicated than they already are.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 03:50 pm: Edit

In the second game, the Hydrans attempted to attack 0413 on AT3. However, I had moved so many Lyran ships to the Hydran front (over 70 SEQs if I recall) that I was able to pin him in the neutral zone. Rather than trade ships for fighters, I left after one round.

I don't recall exactly what it cost the Coalition to devastate the planets in 1401. It was a multi-turn affair, with several getting devastated during CT2, a few more during CT3, and the last during CT4. I hit Kzintai once on each of those turns to keep him buying PDUs instead of ships. I then took things comparatively easy on CT5 because I knew a huge repair bill was going to get generated in the south.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, January 08, 2026 - 02:27 am: Edit

John

Thanks and sorry, that raises two further questions.

1) With such a large movement of ships from the Kzinti theatre to 413 (which might have included Far Stars) - with raids on 1401 - the Kzinti should be able to get a local advantage over either the Lyrans or Klingons on that front - what did the Kzinti do on turn 2/turn 3?

What was the tactical reason why the Hydrans attacked 413 when it was so heavily defended and they could be pinned out (I can't think of one - there are sometimes you do attack, even if you know you will get pinned, so you can reposition the ships etc - but there is no reason for the Hydrans to do that here and it allows Coalition reseces to possibly move forward)?

2) WIth 413 able to pin the Hydrans out - why didn't the Hydrans go East to attack the Klingons (yet, might allow Southern Reserve to get closer) or even attempt the Expedition?

How was Western Fleet deployed - I am guessing all in the 2 BATS within range of 617 (1211 and 1413??) - that would allow the Hydrans to sneak accoss the Klingon Waist into Federation space on turn 4 or turn 5....

I know some people don't like the 'one side will win immediately, if it succeeds' - and so if it's agreed not to be attempted - the Coalition have to in exchange use Western Fleet and Home Fleet to basically defend the Waist (so the bulk of Western Fleet is outside of getting to 617 on turn 4) as a 'quid per quo' agreement on it.


Not really a question - but I can't work out how the Coalition are able to keep stripping PDU's off 1401 - and basically take no damage.

The Kzinti can afford to build their ships and some PDU's - EP's are horribly expensive if they are only get to fight one round and die - perhaps the Alliance player has not yet picked up on some basic game dynamics?

(i.e. Adding 2 PDU's to 4 PDU's adds very little damage for the cost of them, adding 2 PDU's to 16 PDU's adds a huge amount of damage dealt in comparison to the cost of them - due to the cumlative effect on living for 4 or 5 rounds AND the damage thresholds you can cross with higfher Compot levels).

Sorry - lots of questions - but trying to understan why one side is really struggling,

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Thursday, January 08, 2026 - 12:46 pm: Edit

I knew Hydrax was my primary target for the game so all of Far Stars went straight to 0413.

During CT2, after attacking 1401, retreating towards supply put the Klingons in 1402 and the Lyrans in 1302. Although the Kzintis outnumbered them individually, collectively they outnumbered the Kzintis, and being in adjacent hexes allowed them to support each other. On later turns, I tried to keep a Klingon supply tug in 1402 so that the Klingons could continue to retreat to 1402 instead of to the planet in 1502.

The "Waist" was guarded by two pinning fleets: the West Fleet's D7C, E4s and then seven additional E4s from new construction (11 ships total) in 1417, and the Home Fleet's D7C, E4s and F5s (ten ships total) in 0413. If he had sent the First Fleet and all new construction some ships would have gotten through, but the remaining number of ships would have been small enough to block. All the larger ships from the West Fleet, the entirety of CT3 construction (except for the E4s), and a few additional ships I repositioned during CT3 strategic movement were in 1013/1214.

The remainder of the Home Fleet was positioned such that it could react to an attack on either 1013 or 1214 so attacking the Klingons would have pulled the Home Fleet and the SR Reserve Fleet forward. He didn't want to do that. I think attacking 0413 and trading a round of fighters for some cripples was seen as not terribly effective, but better than doing nothing.

The Coalition took losses during the raids on 1401. For example, most of the D6M casualties occurred there. I just had enough FRDs along the border to be able to repair the majority of the crippled ships so they could attack again the next round.

I focused on crippling the Kzinti economy over military targets (e.g., I didn't attack Duke's starbase until CT4). I had it below 60 by AT2, and below 50 by AT3. Replacing the 4 PDUs on Kzintai each turn cost 28 points, leaving only 32 EPs (or less in subsequent turns) for new ships and repairs. So he could really only buy the CV, 2xMEC and maybe 2xEFF per turn, and that required foregoing repairs.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, January 08, 2026 - 03:47 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Wednesday, January 07, 2026 - 03:24 pm: Edit

Sorry, Ted. I missed your earlier post.

We're playing the base game. He has a few of the expansions, but I don't. This is about my tenth game, none of which have gotten beyond CT8 (and this is only the second to make it that far). I really want to make it deeper into the game before I add expansions and make things more complicated than they already are.

---

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, January 08, 2026 - 05:20 pm: Edit

John

Thanks

Worth checking two things

"During CT2, after attacking 1401, retreating towards supply put the Klingons in 1402 and the Lyrans in 1302. Although the Kzintis outnumbered them individually, collectively they outnumbered the Kzintis, and being in adjacent hexes allowed them to support each other. On later turns, I tried to keep a Klingon supply tug in 1402 so that the Klingons could continue to retreat to 1402 instead of to the planet in 1502."

I assume you manipulated the Supply point source to ensure both sides couldn't retreat to the same hex - as if they can go to the same hex - they must?

(That is difficult on Turn 2, as Lyran space is likley to come from a tug around 903 - and depending where the Kzinti border forces retreat to, might mean both Lyrans and Klingons have to retreat to 1302.)

The "Waist" was guarded by two pinning fleets: the West Fleet's D7C, E4s and then seven additional E4s from new construction (11 ships total) in 1417, and the Home Fleet's D7C, E4s and F5s (ten ships total) in 0413. If he had sent the First Fleet and all new construction some ships would have gotten through, but the remaining number of ships would have been small enough to block. All the larger ships from the West Fleet, the entirety of CT3 construction (except for the E4s), and a few additional ships I repositioned during CT3 strategic movement were in 1013/1214.

I assume 0413 was 1413 - as Klingon Home Fleet can't be in 413 on turn 3!

That it not though even close enough to stop a modest Expedition attempt.

There doesn't seem to be anything to stop Expedition going to 1415 (as the 1417 force can only react into 1415) and that would allow First Fleet to slip ships through to 1514 (with any forces in 1214 or home in 1413 only being pinned as required on the way).

Remember - The Hydran PWC can be added anywhere - and so thats modest number of additional ships which can be added to First FLeet and used to pin to allow good ships to get where thye need to be.

That would creat a gap in the Klingon defence and if the Hydran Supply Tug was left with 10 ships in say 1316 (if the 1415 BATS didn't die) - those 10 ships and 1514 forces could easily reach Federation space on Turn 4.


Thats just a tactic though - what I can't understand is how so many forces was sent south on Turn 3 and turn 4 = and the Coalition was still able to devatstate all of 1401.

While the Coalition are blowing up PDU's - the Kzinti should be taking very little damage on Ships. And while the SB's are being blown up, that equally means less damage on Ships. (Added to the Fact the Alliance has lost a modest number of ships, you can't have been letting damage fall to often!).

The major planets should always have a full line defending them - and depending on what is defending the SB's (and if they are only being pinned - the Kzinti reserves can all be in 1401) - sometimes the Minor Planets may not be defended always.

So what sort of battles happened in 1401 and what damage by each side was done?

How did the Kzinti defend Kzinti space - what happened to the Kzinti reserves on turn 2?

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Thursday, January 08, 2026 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Paul, you are correct that "0413" should have been 1413.

However, first a correction. I forgot to mention that I included a scout in the 1413 force to allow two-hex reaction. I should also mention that the East Fleet was in 1813.

I'm not sure I'm following your description of the expedition.

If the Hydrans move into 1316, then the 1417 force moves to 1416 and ships from 1214 move to 1315, with both forces pinning the Hydrans in 1415. Since the Home Fleet Reserve and SR Reserve can then be sent to this battle, the Hydrans realistically won't be able eliminate the Klingons, and will end up retreating to 1316, with a large Klingon fleet in front of them.

Alternatively, if the Hydrans move in 1317, then the 1417 fleet pins 10 of them. The Hydrans can continue to 1416, where the 1417 fighters pin one more ship. They then continue to 1415 (since going to 1516 would allow the SR to react). They have to leave one more ship on the BS, and the 1413 ships can react to 1414. They catch the Hydrans in 1515. This pins another 10 ships. Yes, five or six ships can continue, but that's a small enough fleet that the East Fleet and new construction can block it. Even if the Expeditionary Fleet moves to 1316 to reinforce the expedition, there's still going to be a lot of Klingon ships in that immediate area, and additional ships can be moved into the area during CT4 to make sure they can't go anywhere.

The force I put in 1417 leaves open the possibility of the Hydrans being able to take 15 or so ships south of the SR starbase, but that's a much longer journey that is probably at best arriving on AT6.

So on CT2, I attacked 1401 with:
Lyrans: 2xDN (I accelerated a DN during CT1), 3xBC, 3xCC, 6xCA, 8xCW, 2xCL, DW, 2xFF, DWS, SC
Klingons: 2xTGC(BP), 2xD6M, 2xD7C, 3xD7, 3xD6, 9xD5, 5xF5L, 7xF5, E4, 2xD6D, 2xF5S, D6V, 4xF5V, 3xE4A
The Kzintis had (including one reserve from Marquis):
2xDN, 2xTGC(BP), 3xCC, 7xBC, 3xCL, 5xFF, 5xCV, 3xCVL, 4xCLE, 6xEFF, 3xDF, SF

By the end of several rounds of combat, I had killed 4 PDUs on Kzintai and devastated Zabbottish, Vielsalm and Vronkett. The Lyrans lost 2xCW, FF killed and CC, CL, 5xCW, DW crippled. The Klingons lost D6M, 2xD5, D7, 2xF5L, F5 killed, and 2xD6, 7xD5, 3xF5L, 6xF5 crippled.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, January 09, 2026 - 04:13 am: Edit

Thanks

I assumed Scouts would be with the 'Deep Space' guarding fleets


I probably explained it badly - idea of Hydrans on Turn 3 is the threaten the Expedition - and to end turn 3 with say 8 ships in 1316 and 8 ships in 1414 - assuming the Klingons sent a reserve to 1514.

Kiingons without re-inforcements, can't block the Hydrans getting to 1514 on turn 3.

Expedition pins 1415 - First fleet then goes 1315/1417/1414/1514 - So Southern Reserve can't react and only the 1413 10 ships or so from Home Fleet can react to it - First+PWC can easily get 10 ships through to 1514 or it's 20 v 10+Minor Planet in 1514.

(The rest of the Hydran attack forces goes back to Hydran space).

So that gets 2 x 8 Fleets in the Waist - and the Klingons can easily pin them - but they need to avoid allowing the Hydrans to react forward from 1414 - so it probably means the Hydran Expeditionary Tug force in 1316 gets to react forward.

They get pinned- Hydrans either give up 1 ship from each force - of it's equal forces they fight a round and run.

On Alliance Turn 4 therefore, there is 14 or so Hydran ships whcih can take 2 or 3 '2 turn routes' into Federation Space - and therefore, the Coalition need to block it with 2 or 3 times as many ships.

(The point if the force that was in 1414 is now out of supply- it can be used to help pin Coailition Ships which block the Hydran Expeditionnary Tug suppled Ships.....- assuming 1316 is also out of Supply).

If the Coalition mess up (it's fairly easy to unless very base within 6 is destroyed!) - they might not cut 1414 off from supply.

So - the threat of the Expedition forces the Coalition to slow the tempo of the attack down on turn 4 (and time is what the Alliance needs).

If the Coalition have blocked the routes well - the Hydrans go back home..... and if not, they can force the Coalition to again try to block it on turn 5 (thereby buying time).

In other words -I think the Alliance has been playing into the Coalitions strengths - attacking where they Coalition is strong (0413 for example) and not using mobility and threats to slow the Coalition down.

Handing over the Hydran SB's for cheap is clearly not a good strategy in slowing the Coalition down.

On 1401 turn 2 - OK - forces look fair on both sides - and depending on what the Kzinti wants to do - the Minor Planet might not have been defened (one strategy is to attack the minor planets and direct kill a key Kzinti ship each round - and so it reduces their ability to defend the major planets - one example is you strip the outer escort off the CV groups (or are really mean and only cripple it - so a Mobile 3CV group goes into the Static Group - and it can force the Kzinti to self kill it then, if they need more mobile forces).

I assume also the Alliance generally lets damage fall - other than the D6M - and the Coalition direct killed PDU's?

Again a tactics comment - if it appears the Coalition is going south (and sending Far Stars South on Coalition 2 turn would indicate that) - but the Kzinti perhaps should have prioritised ships over PDU's?

Turn 2 Ship production is only 41.5 Ep's (assuming the BC becomes the CV) - so that would allow probably 3 PDUs to be built on the Capital and Turn 3 with Salvage might only allow 1 PDU.

But those ships are more valuable AND the PDU's are not critical (IMHO!).

I have seen the Kzinti DD's not be build though, as they are expensive and not critical!

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, January 09, 2026 - 05:02 am: Edit

"2xDN (I accelerated a DN during CT1)"

I would say this is fairly rare - but for 3 Ep's seems to be a good tactic

Cerainly the Lyrans can afford 19 Ep's on turn 1 - to gain a good hull for any turn 2 Capital assault!

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, January 11, 2026 - 05:03 pm: Edit

Depending on time 'for real life' - I might start a solo game of F&E.

Certainly for the earlier part of the game (where ship numbers massively favour the Coalition) - I think Op movement can be made very quickly - by most moves going direct to the 'end hex' (there may be afew occasions where there is two options depending on what might reasct - i.e. the Coalition doubles back and so the original target can't react).

Combats will have no surprises (use of Commmand Points etc and if advanced EW is issued) - but that probably doesn't make too much a difference.

The million dollar question is what rules to use?

I have : -

Basic Rules (2010)
Advanced Ops (2003)
Combined Ops (2003)
Figher Ops (2004)
Planetary Ops (2004)
Strategic Ops (2006)

Fairly easy to drop PO and SO - PO adds I think alot of time issues - and SO doesn't add much.

I mam trying to work out if EW is a good idea or not for Solo games.

So other than ignoring EW - that might knock CO on the head too...

AO and FO to me are pro-Coalition..... I need to re-look at the early pro-Alliance rules I think (as there is no point in giving the alliance a huge boost on turn 20.... if the Coalition gets boost on turn 5 and wins the game by turn 15 )!!!

Thoughts?