F&E General Discussions

Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E General Discussions
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From a post on February 13, 2006

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By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 10:57 am: Edit

the feds needing to be subsidized by anybody is not in fact normal. you're taking the dire alliance circumstances in your particular game and claiming in effect they are an inevitable consequence of the rules. if you flip sides with richard, like you did in the 4pw, and similar results ensued, that would be a much stronger argument- and would surprise me quite a lot.

there's little dispute that the alliance has a harder row to hoe without the extra cash and prizes they gain in the supplements, but the other brown paper bag F&E games that you see around here aren't as lopsided as dont/cant, by any means.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 02:30 pm: Edit

When was the last time you played a game of basic F+E out to T15 or so? Like, really?

I have played multiple games of basic F+E out to T15 or so. And what I have going on in my current game is not that far out of the realm of what has happened in the past, either playing the Alliance or playing the Coalition. In fact, this particular game sees the Alliance doing better than they could be, relative to how they ended up at this point in previous games under previous rules sets.

Why would the Federation *not* need financial aid from allies? They have a build schedule that runs at 130+ EPs per turn. They have an economy than can *easily* be dropped by 75-100 EPs a turn though Coalition action (most of which consists of Romulan province raiders that, at best, die 1/3rd of the timeÖ). If they have any significant number of cripples that need repair, they are very quickly going to run into a situation where they have to choose between:

A) Building ships.


B) Fixing the ones they have that are crippled.

As you generally don't want to give up ship builds, you down sub and build smaller ships where you can. And even then, you can easily not have enough money to fix all the ships you need to fix. Over many turns. The Gorns, on the other hand, only build about 40 EPs of ships per turn, and likely have an economy of about 60 EPs a turn. Sending 10 EPs a turn to the Feds means that they can either fix 10 EPs more worth of ships per turn, or get closer to their actual build schedule. Either of which is advantageous.

This happens in games of basic F+E. The 2K10 rules seem to be working ok, relatively speaking, for the Alliance, relative to other games I have seen either as the Alliance or as the Coalition. But saying "the Feds never need to be subsidized" is either the result of not actually playing basic F+E to this point and just envisioning how the game works with the expansions (which, all indications are, *vastly* improve the position of the Alliance overall) or having played not real good Coalition players. A reasonably played Coalition that has mostly average luck? It can put the Alliance in a situation like this pretty easily (in the basic game).

By Kosta Michalopoulos (Kosmic) on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 03:46 pm: Edit

I have only ever played basic F&E (albeit not under the 2010 rules). I concur with Peter that the Fed economy typically drops to under 120 EPs once the Romulans get fully engaged in the war, and it is not unreasonable to see it drop to under 100 if the Coalition pushes into the Fed capital and starts devastating planets. I have seen it bottom out at about 80 EPs a couple of times, necessitating financial aid from both Kzinti and Gorn in order for the Alliance to build the maximum number of hulls. No point in building a Kzinti DN when with the same EPs you can build 3 Fed NCLs.

I understand the dynamic changes drastically with the expansions, but I have no personal experience with it and probably never will. I just wish the basic game was more balanced, as none of my friends will play it again, citing the lack of balance, and they do not wish to play with the added complexity of the expansions. :(

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 08:04 pm: Edit

My gut feeling is that the alliance will turn this game around - when exactly remains to be determined.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, October 25, 2014 - 11:47 am: Edit

Here is to hoping!

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