| By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, October 16, 2024 - 03:03 am: Edit |
Bill
The supply point check for retreat purposes is done at the moment 'retreat' is declared (or first declared if partial retreats are permttied).
Unresolved Battle hexes don't affect supply points - even if it's clear a supply point will be captured when that battle hex is resolved.
The order of battles being resolved is therefore critial (as you can force the enemy to sometimes retreat where you want them to go).
Numbers of 'Ship equivalents or ships' in a battle hex only effect retreat priorities (i.e. you can only retreat into a hex with more ships if thats the open remaining option etc) - they don't affect the validity of a supply point being a supply point. (As a silly but correct example - 100 Attacking ships v 1 Defending Ship over a base - doesn't stop that Base acting as a supply point - until that Battle hex is resolved).
So in your example 316 and 517 are equal distance to a supply point, neither have enemy unts in the actual retreat hex (the numbers in 215 or 617 are not relevant) and so the Hydran player can retreat to either hex - it is their choice.
| By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Wednesday, October 16, 2024 - 03:04 pm: Edit |
Thank you for that clarification Paul, that helps a lot.
| By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Monday, December 02, 2024 - 05:24 pm: Edit |
This is a follow-up on my recent discussion with Ryan in Q&A discussions. I am requesting a formal ruling because the rules seem clear-cut . . . but I'm not aware of anyone actually playing this way, and the result seems unbalanced.
A Romulan SUP is raiding a hex which contains a Fed SB, plus a fleet with: DN, 4CC, 5NCL, 8FF, SC.
It looks to me like the Feds have no good options. The Romulans have a cloak, so the Feds proceed according to the rule below. I've bolded the key sentence:
(314.246)
If the raiding ship has a cloak, any defending units
must roll a die to see if they located the cloaked ship. Each ship
rolls separately, but when the first ship locates the cloaked raider,
no other ship rolls, and only the ship that successfully detected
the raider engages it.
If, for example, the DN were to locate the SUP, it would fight small scale combat at a severe disadvantage (-3 vs. +3 on the SSC chart.) None of the other Feds in the Hex could help. Alternatively, the Feds might decide not to search for the cloaked raider. We then come to this rule:
(314.28)
ALTERNATIVE ATTACK:
If the raiding ship survives
the reaction battle (if there is one) uncrippled and without being
forced to retreat, it may (instead of disrupting the province) en-
gage in Small-Scale Combat (310.0) with any single unit of its
choice in the raid target hex which might include an FRD, war-
ship, SAF, convoy, base, tug serving as a supply point, tug set-
ting up a mobile base, PDU, auxiliary, or whatever; however, see
(314.253-4).
So, the SUP can choose to fight single combat with the DN. Its +3 on the SSC chart gives it over a 50% chance to kill the DN, while the DN has no chance to kill the SUP. One might wonder if 314.253-4 will save the DN. But 314.254 starts like this:
(314.254)
If the raider decided to attack an FRD, LTF, convoy, or
crippled ship, it would first have to fight any co-located base in
the hex . . . .
The DN is not a crippled ship. So the SUP does not have to first fight the co-located SB. The Fed DN will probably die, and only a lucky roll can stop it. The Feds might choose to search with their CC, on the theory that losing that is better than losing the DN. But unless the CC rolls 8+ with two dice on the SSC, chart, the SUP can come for the DN anyway.
The question is -- am I missing something? Does the Fed fleet here, sitting on a Fed SB, really have no way to prevent the raiding SUP from attacking a key ship, without any Fed ship or the SB helping?
| By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Sunday, December 08, 2024 - 10:47 am: Edit |
Can captured Romulan ships cloak?
This is important in light of our current understanding of the cloaked raider rules.
What I can find is the following:
(305.231) A captured ship refitted and put into use is considered a ship of the new owning player for all purposes (except that a ship of one empire cannot be converted into a variant of the capturing empire’s equivalent ship, but only into a variant of the original owner).
(306.0) CLOAKED SHIPS (Advanced) Uncrippled ships with cloaking devices (Romulans and the 25% of Orion Pirate ships so equipped) which are in supply have the following options for combat.
One could argue that the captured ship is no longer Romulan, and per the "all purposes" clause of (305.231), it no longer has cloaking as it is no longer Romulan for purposes of (306.0).
FEAST:
F&E 2K10 pg 43.
(305.45) Last sentence. "A cloaked ship loses its cloak; a ship captured by the Romulans gain a cloak."
| By Sean Dzafovic (Sdzafovic) on Tuesday, December 17, 2024 - 12:31 pm: Edit |
I have a question regarding the Hydran supply tug.
There is a Hydran fleet currently OOS stacked with a supply tug with 20 ship turns of supply. If it gets attacked on the Coalition turn, the Hydran player can supply all, some, or none of the ships in the hex.
If some/all of the ships are in supply, this will last until the end of the Coalition turn? Or into the next Alliance turn?
I am assuming a "ship-turn" of supplies lasts one player (ie: Alliance or Coalition) turn, but not an entire numbered turn. (ex: Coalition half of Y173 Fall, not both the Alliance and Coalition player turns)
| By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Tuesday, December 17, 2024 - 02:25 pm: Edit |
>> I am assuming a "ship-turn" of supplies lasts one player (ie: Alliance or Coalition) turn, but not an entire numbered turn. (ex: Coalition half of Y173 Fall, not both the Alliance and Coalition player turns)
For what it's worth, I've considered the "ship-turn" to be an entire numbered turn, taking the definition of a turn from 102.0.
(509.52) SUPPLY SOURCE--Mike
Each “ship-turn” of supplies is enough to supply one ship (of any type) for one turn.
(102.0) BASIC TERMS
TURN: A game function, representing the passage of six months, during which both sides will conduct their business.
| By Sean Dzafovic (Sdzafovic) on Tuesday, December 17, 2024 - 10:29 pm: Edit |
This is what I get from the search function:
Quote:How long is a ship supplied from the tug in supply? (The rule says "one turn", but isn't clear as to whether that's a Player turn, or a Game turn.)
ANSWER: Game turn, as you need to count each ship-turn from a given supply check step (when you start drawing supplies from the tug instead of your supply grid) to just before the same supply check step in the owner's (Hydran's) next player turn. Each ship that draws supplies counts as a "ship turn" used, and that same ship can continue to use the tug as a supply source for each supply check step over the course of one game turn from the first time it did so, all as part of "one ship-turn". One might ask if ship A can can get supplied during op movement, and ship B can get supplied during the combat step and only count this as one ship-turn used, but I would say no. Mainly the bookeeping would be a nightmare, clearly each ship must use a different ship-turn of supplies, even if it only uses part of the ship-turn.
Since the ships supplied from the tug are in supply, they get replacement fighters per (501.5), correct? ((509.55) explictly applies only to ships that are out of supply, and they can't be both in and out of supply at the same time.)
| By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Thursday, December 19, 2024 - 06:04 pm: Edit |
Hey Mike or Chuck....Some questions about captured ships.
When a ship is captured it can be brought back to your SB (or larger) for changeover refit to your own technology under Option 3 (305.23). I understand the procedure but there are a couple pinholes I would like to fill.
Q1. (Chicken or Egg) Does the refit (costing 3EP) have to happen first (or at least simultaneously) to the repair of this ship? I ask because it is very plausible an empire would be in a position where they cannot afford to do both things in one turn. So does one (refit or repair) have to happen first before the other can be done?
Q2. Does the refit (costing 3EP) also count against the conversion capability of that base? I cannot find a reference one way or the other. Rule (305.45) discusses converting the captured ship to an available variant but doesn't mention the refit at all. Maybe it assumes the refit was done previously? This refit could prevent a further variant conversion unless the ship was at a facility where major conversions are allowed.
Q3. Speaking of (305.45) and (305.47) converting a captured ship to an available variant (of its previous owner). If two Orion LRs or two Orion CRs are captured and refit/repaired...could they be converted into a DBR or DCR essentially turning the two ships into one? In this case a player would have to burn the two Orion ships to get the one as the Orion shipyard would do.
I note the restriction of converting Lyran twin-hulls to tri-hulls but that requires the center section. Either way I would suggest it be added as a an allowance or restriction in (305.47)
Q4. Again under (305.23) the (basic set) rule mentions a Starbase for doing the technology changeover refit. with the expansion allowing Major and Minor Conversion facilities would it be possible for this refit to be performed at these facilities even if they were not at a Starbase (or larger base)? (The rule says MSY's can be built at Major Planets). If so, I would suggest the basic set be edited to say 'available conversion facility'.
| By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, January 08, 2025 - 03:06 pm: Edit |
Question from a Facebook F&E Member....
What does "Diplomatic Protection", in rule 540.29 mean?
I am guessing 540.14 has created some terminology which is not confirmed expicitly?
I believe the interpretation of 540.14 (and so 540.145) is that Diplomatic Ships are what is used for the general movemnt of Dip Teams prior to the entry of a nation into the game.
A Diplomatic Team carried on a 'War-ship' does NOT make thay ship into a Diplomatic Ship (as 540.144 would add several complextities to the game).
The relevant rule point is that can 540.145 be used to Retrograde an Out of Supply Hydran ship (with a Dip Team) to a Kzinti base - to aid in the Expedition.
If normal Warships with a Dip Team can use 540.144, if the Hydran Ship with the Dip Team, uses 540.145, would that invaldiate a Hydran Expedition attemept (with that ship)?
Q1 - What is Diplomatic Ship Protection (and so what Invaldiates an attempt, over and above a Cease Fire)?
Q2 - Can a normal Warship with a Dip Team use 540.145?
Q3 - Does a normal Warship with a Dip Team always count as a Diplomatic Ship (so 540.144 applies)?
Thanks
| By Brian Klotzman (Briank) on Thursday, January 30, 2025 - 06:38 pm: Edit |
Hey team Sam asked this question last Feb and maybe I missed it but I can't find the answer...
From Sam Benner
Encountered an issue with the capital rules today.
(511.537) says that carriers must be divided between the static and mobile forces, and that "In an extreme case when a player had only two carriers and two escorts, he would put one of each in each half, which might make it impossible to form "normal" carrier groups.
But carrier groups can be formed before this point - if there is an approach battle, they must be formed before that and they cannot be broken during that turn's combat. In such a case, the ships in carrier groups partially assigned to the mobile force are functionally static (because they cannot appear in battle except with the static ships in the group). Note that this also occurs when a single ship in a mobile group is crippled.
So the questions I have:
1) Is it possible to form a group with ships from both the mobile and static forces?
2) If so, can the mobile ships of such a group appear apart from the static ships (with gaps in the group)?
3) If not, what happens to groups which have one ship crippled or if there is an approach battle before the static/mobile split?
4) Should that line be removed from (511.537) (because it's misleading)?
I think the answers should be 1) yes, 2) yes, 3) N/A, and 4) yes, and that's how we played it, but I'd like to have a firm answer anyway.
End From Sam Benner
I'm working on my computer port of the game and doing capital assaults right now and ran into the same concern. Basically you setup the carrier group for the approach battle and so those are set BEFORE you get to the step of splitting up the static and mobile defense pools...
So is it fine to split up a carrier groups parts between the pools in order to comply with the even split rules?
If so, and those parts end up in different systems for a given round do the missing escorts just show up as holes in the battle line?
Thanks!
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, January 31, 2025 - 05:04 pm: Edit |
Blair Andrecheck ASKED THIS QUESTION. HE CANNOT FIND A WAY TO GET INTO THE BBS (JEAN IS ON THAT CASE) SO I POSTED IT FOR HIM;
Gorn player in grand campaign I am kinda on the sidelines, I'm exploring options to be "active"
1: Rule 540.23 (SO) says monies acquired by diplomatic trade with a neutral is exempt to rule 600.323 (FE), would this extend to rule 540.22 or is this BEING specific for a reason
2: Using the above rule (using whichever option is allowed to go forward) could then 431.42 (FE), being vague as it is, be used to SUPPLEMENT the income to make conversions as per 600.323's exempted ability?
3: I'm just ASSUMING, correct me if I'm wrong, that to make use of these with at least Fleet 2 I am going to be again in the rule of 600.322 (FE) to get ships from fleet 2 to starbases to upgrade, and presuming that if they have been stationed at hex 4103 that being equidistant to many potential starbases... that the CAPITAL shipyard is one option and therefore ships in Fleet 2 COULD be MAJOR upgraded...?
| By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Sunday, February 02, 2025 - 01:25 pm: Edit |
Hello there, I have a question concerning the Kzinti Marquis fleet. Rule 601.12 state that the Marquis fleet my move freely after Klingons enter Kzinti territory, but most leave at least 6 ships
including a CC in the two Federation border provinces. What I can't find is whether or not any of the active fleets can use any of the bases in those two border provinces. In other words, could he launch an attack from the star base in hex 1704 with the Marquis fleet minus the 6 ships into klingon territory like the star base in hex 1509 and then retrograde back to the Kzinti star base in hex 1704. Basically using the star base in the border provinces as a safe haven that the Klingons can't touch until turn 7 without bringing in the Feds?
| By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Monday, February 03, 2025 - 05:16 pm: Edit |
Hello there. I've been reading up on the Hydran expeditionary supply tug. 509.5 says that the fighter conveyor pallet can be used as a supply source when the tug is out of supply and can supply up to twenty ship-turns of supply with any ship stacked with the tug. Am I correct in assuming that this tug would not be considered a base if in combat the way a tug would be if using rule 509.1-D?
| By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Sunday, March 23, 2025 - 11:16 pm: Edit |
Hello there. I have a question concerning initial PF deployment. Rule 502.6 in the main rule book covers the time table for PF deployments, rule 502.612 also states that normal production limits for PFT's and PFs begins on the second turn of free deployments. The Master F&E Order of Battle that are available through this website are also specific on when PF's will be available. The question that we are having is that Tactical Operations book that became available on 2021 on section 551.4 describes a Light PF tender that is available for all of the primary races, except the Romulans, and these Light PF tenders become available starting on year 175 depending on the race. Our question is that the main rules show that PFs don't start becoming available until year 178 spring at the earliest, and that you cannot start building PFTs and PFs until the second turn of free PF deployments, but Tactical operations says that you can start building Light PFTs as early as turn 175 depending on race. Does that mean that PFs can be built for these Light PF Tenders or are we misinterpreting the rules entirely? Thank you for your time.
| By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Saturday, April 05, 2025 - 06:27 pm: Edit |
Can the Federation use its (602.17 and 602.172) diplomatic money during T1-6 to pay the cost outlined in (443.31) replacing a Com Con?
| By Sean Dzafovic (Sdzafovic) on Saturday, May 17, 2025 - 02:47 pm: Edit |
If you repair an allies ships, do they have free strategic movement in "their" grid as well, or just the repairing power's grid?
| By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, May 17, 2025 - 03:47 pm: Edit |
(204.313) The free Strategic Movement for a repaired ship does not count against the owning player’s Strategic Movement allowance (204.30). However, in some rare cases, a ship might be repaired at an allied facility not in the owning empire’s Strategic Movement Network, and the ship would count against the limits on repaired ships of any allied networks it used.
| By Warren Mathews (Turtle) on Tuesday, June 10, 2025 - 07:59 pm: Edit |
Q314.251 Is a PRD is considered to be a base for the purposes of (314.251), (314.252), (314.253), and/or (314.254)? Rules quoted below for reference:
Quote:(314.251) The defending empire might choose to have one of these units fight a round of single combat under (314.244). He might also declare some of the units to be “with” any base in the hex, meaning that they could not be involved in a reaction battle unless the raider decided to attack the base. For this purpose, “base” could include a convoy, tug acting as a supply point, FRD, PDU, or other units that would normally trigger an approach battle.
(314.252) If a raiding ship enters a raid target hex with many enemy ships and none of them agree to fight, the raiding ship would have what amounts to a free pass to attack a key weak unit (base, cripple, FRD, convoy) in the hex under (314.28) or to simply declare the province disrupted and the raid over.
(314.253) If the raider elects to attack a PDU, it would first have to fight a single round of normal combat (no pursuit, lost raiders produce no salvage) against all bases, PDUs, and any monitors assigned to that planet. Then, if the raider survives (314.28), it can attack a single PDU. A result of cripple, destruction, or retreat would destroy the PDU. A raider cannot attack or destroy a residual defense factor. (There would be no point as it would reconstitute itself the instant that the raider left.)
(314.254) If the raider decided to attack an FRD, LTF, convoy, or crippled ship, it would first have to fight any co-located base in the hex (as well as any co-located PDUs on a planet at which the base is located) as these vulnerable units would certainly be kept near the co-located base. Rule (314.252) does not provide an exception to this rule. Alternatively, the owner of said unit could decide that it is at another location within the hex. Whatever decision is made (302.212) would be binding for the remainder of the turn unless the unit leaves the hex.
| By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, June 11, 2025 - 03:34 am: Edit |
Turtle: (425.161) It is treated like a base (requiring an approach battle, not counting against command limits, etc.).
Quote:
| By Sean Dzafovic (Sdzafovic) on Wednesday, June 25, 2025 - 08:01 pm: Edit |
If an OPB is towed by a tug, it can use withdrawal before combat as a slow unit as per (453.24).
5F-1 in SoP says that the withdrawn ships are subject to a pursuit battle if there are any crippled ships.
I assume that this means slow units (specifically OPB conducting withdrawal before combat using a tug) are also subject to attack (as mentioned in 5F-1 and 307.11), even though slow units are not generally allowed to use withdrawal before combat, but are covered under 302.742.
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