I think all of the starbases are in full supply. If I am not mistaken, 1304 has a valid path 1403-1504-1603, etc.

By Robert Padilla (Zargan) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 07:16 am: Edit

Those CVLs will probably be getting converted into CVs right quick. But it's going to be hard on the Kzinti, as their off-map income at this phase of the game is less than stellar. 15 EPs a turn is most of what the off-map generates base (I think it starts at 19 EPs?).

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 07:32 am: Edit

My drone bombardment math comes out differently from Paul's. I see 11 rounds of 0.8EP (all from Monday's session) and 2 rounds of 0.4 (both from Tuesday) for a total of 9.6.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 07:50 am: Edit

William

Supply path for 1304 - can't remember if PDU's will allow supply though a hex - I don't think so(into yes, through no), but mught be wrong!

On Drones -
I thought you did 2 full rounds after I stopped (I wrote down I stopped after Round 10, and round 13 was when I attacked both systems - when you had insufficent forces for both systems).

I'll check my other notes - but it isn't massive either way!

Robert - now you have got me thinking (rules not with me) - Major conversion while no ship yard...ummm - you probably can, but the 8 Ep cost (4+4) might be hard to do after the first turn, when the cash 'reserves' have been spent.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 10:31 am: Edit

The question is not whether it is worth self-killing about 20 ships (mostly war cruisers) to take Kzintai early. Of course it is.

The much more interesting issue is whether or not the problems presented by about 120EP of crips at Kzintai (plus another 25EP at other locations) are worth it. This remains unknown -- at least to me.

It's not the economic cost of repairs. It's the military implications.

By Robert Padilla (Zargan) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 10:37 am: Edit

You can most surely do major conversions while building the new shipyard,as long as the off-map SB was used as the new capital. Like I said, the Kzinti are going to be strapped for cash for a while, but they can probably find 8 EPs, at the expense of things like repairs.

William, I don't think I've ever seem a capital assault where at least 10 ships were not self killed. Those first few rounds over the capital planet + SB can do lots of damage (and if it's the Hydrans it gets even higher). On the flip side, sure the Coalition has a lot of cripples right now, but I'm guessing the Kzinti navy is in no better shape, meaning they should have the time to get those ships fixed and back into action faster than the Kzinti can recover. The Coalition really does not need to send additional ships to the Hydran front turn 3, as the Klingons have pleanty of garbage down there to hold them in check. And if the Lyrans set up all of the EB Fleet and Far Stars on 0411, that SB should be safe too.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 10:58 am: Edit

1202 is being treated as a Klingon supply point, but its garrison is Lyran. I am unclear on whether or not this is correct.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 11:03 am: Edit

Robert -- the Kzinti can repair quickly. They had some banked EP, they have plenty of repair capacity, and the CEDS rules are insanely good.

The upshot is that if he is continuing his offensive in the North, it will be possible to repair every single Kzinti crip before his next turn. This will require delaying the new shipyard -- but that's worth it. If he is turning South, I will stretch it out a little longer in order to start the shipyard. But I will still have almost half back in action on my turn 3, and most of the rest by my turn 4.

As for the Hydrans, you are absolutely correct that they will not be able to run rampant in the short term. From their point of view, the question is whether or not he is going to commit sufficient force to eventually push them off the map. He can do this, but it won't happen soon, either.

By Robert Padilla (Zargan) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 11:36 am: Edit

Just out of curiosity, what does the Kzinti navy look like right now? And what uncrippled Coalition units are in Kzinti space? At a minimum, the Zin may be able to drive off the Coaltion from 1401 if they can get most of their ships back online this coming Alliance turn.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 11:48 am: Edit

Trying to figure out the rules for the Hydran exp. fleet tug per 509.5. We are not using SO.

My reading is that even though it is base F&E, the following apply:

(1) Tug cannot carry pods, move FRDs, setup bases, etc.
(2) Tug carries 20 refillable ship-turns of supplies, usable only for ships in the same hex.
(3) Tug carries 27 non-refillable fighter factors. These can be transferred to other ships in the hex. It's a bit unclear, but it looks like it can do this between rounds of a battle.

As an alternative, I could use it as a normal tug. But I have to make this choice once. Once the choice has been made (either way), I can't change it for the rest of the game.

By Robert Padilla (Zargan) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 12:00 pm: Edit

Yes all of that looks correct. The tug is technically carrying a pod, but since that pod is not in base 2K, you're #1 is correct. Think of the fighters on the tug as just one big FCR (that may not help you if you're not familiar with the AO rules), in that ships can take fighters from it each combat round. And yes if you choose not to use the Hydran special tug, that ability is gone forever.

One other thing, it's been ruled that the supply tug can only refill it's supplies once. Something to keep in mind. And the tug does not supply itself, so it has to use one of those 20 turns of supply if you want it to be in supply too (assuming it's out of supply of course).

By Matthew G. Smith (Mattsmith) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 12:47 pm: Edit

I'm not sure on the "either way" choice.

Here's the appropriate Q&A archive:

---

Quote:

Q2614: Considering this magical Hydran tug that has 20 ship-turns of supplies and a bunch of spare fighters. Is this a mission or a pod? Does transferring the FCP pod from Combined Operations to a different tug give that tug the supply ability?
A: There is much confusion as these are two different things, and the way you handle them varies between standard F&E and F&E+CO.
The FCP pod (spare fighters) and the supplies are two separate functions. A single tug (the one for the expedition) has both. The supplies are a major pre-war logistic trick that cannot be repeated once it’s used up. In F&E, they both stay with that tug; in CO you can move the pod to another tug but only the original tug has the supplies. The FCP pod can be refilled indefinitely and you can build a new one (if you can afford it) after losing one. The supply tug cannot be replaced and can only be refilled once.

---

By Robert Padilla (Zargan) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 02:23 pm: Edit

Yeah, I missed that. The Tug is not "locked in" to being the supply tug. It's just that once you give it a different mission, you can never do the "special supply tug" mission ever again. Tug Mission O (which the the Hydran Special Tug Mission) does not say it's stuck in that role forever. You can change the mission on your next turn if you wish to.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 05:07 pm: Edit

William

1304 -

Alas, I think I need page 2 of the rule which has the definitions...and my front cover page has gone!

If a planet with PDU's is counted as a Base (411.32) - supply can move though the hex. I believe it does but 'base' could be just MB/BATS/SB??

Planet 1202 - I had an E4 in 807 - which I thought I moved to 1004 - but wasn't on your map (I only noticed it when doing retrograde), and so didn't get to be included in the combat over the BATS

Three choices - the E4 moves to 1202, keeping it Klingon

- The Lyran ship which replaced the Klingon garrison will have conquered the planet for the Lyrans (I doubt you would have sent a reserve there?)

- The Klingons hand the planet over to the Lyrans at the start of the turn (I think it had both Coalition forces there).

Which do you want to do?

Hydran Tug - Exactly as Matthew said...lets just call it special! If the Tug dies - the supply part can never be replaced.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 06:59 pm: Edit

The way I read it:

The planet opens up supply through its own hex per 411.31, but not through adjacent hexes.

But opening up supply through its own hex is all that is needed.

Re: 1202. It is entirely possible that you moved something and I neglected to move it on my map. So go ahead and fix that.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 08:10 pm: Edit

Just to be clear about 1202: I don't really care. The question is mostly of academic interest. Handing it over to the Lyrans is fine too, and that would not have changed any reserve or combat decision I made.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 09:16 pm: Edit

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful,

As the Apostate Lyrans and their Crusading Klingon Allies have not responded to the Caliph's suggestion that they become Muslim, the Caliph hereby invites you to become Dhimmi.

In exchange for a Jizya amounting to a mere 10% of your income, your military's evacuation of the Caliphate, and your oaths of loyalty to the Caliph, the Caliph offers you peace and his protection against all enemies.

The price is low and easily affordable. At peacetime economy, it would amount to a mere 7EP every six months for the Klingons, and 6 for the Lyrans.

You will be assured of the Caliph's protection, and able to pursue your own religions for as long as you choose. The Caliph will also show you, and invite you to join, the glories of Islam.

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 11:28 am: Edit

---

Quote:

The Tug is not "locked in" to being the supply tug. It's just that once you give it a different mission, you can never do the "special supply tug" mission ever again. Tug Mission O (which the the Hydran Special Tug Mission) does not say it's stuck in that role forever.

---

By Robert Padilla (Zargan) on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 02:34 pm: Edit

It's been ruled that once the tug changes missions, the supplies are gone forever. I don't have the reference handy, but I am sure it's in the Q&A Archive.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 04:41 pm: Edit

The Klingons spend 19 Ep's on CEDS, repairing several battered Carrier Groups, at the FRD park in 1407.

Lyran end of Coalition Turn 3 Balance is 2 Ep's (I omitted to include the Off Map New province - Doh!)

Klingon end of Coalition Turn 3 Balance is 1.3 Ep's.

It is noted, that several concerned Klingon, Federation and Gorn trades have been requested to leave certain Hydran border areas.

The Hydran Government has refused to ocnfirm the reason why large tracts of Hydran space have been made off limits to traders.

It is hoped this temporary banning of cross border trade will cease shortly, as the loss of trade in the area is a signifcant cause for concern - in both Klingon and Federation camps.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 10:50 pm: Edit

Dear Ambassadors Kahless and Puma With Big Claws,

Phtha III and Anthraxian are suffering from a new form of Dendran Fever. In addition to fever, this dread disease excruciating pain, swelling of all internal organs, discoloration of the skin, loss of mental faculties, and, in the more fortunate patients, death. It is highly contagious and can spread to different species. The wildlife on Phtha III is also suffering.

We believe this outbreak is the result of a mutation of the Dendran Virus. Our usual antiviral medications are ineffective. We are trying to develop new medications and a vaccine, but this will take time. We are also experimenting with dilithium therapy. Preliminary results are encouraging but inconclusive.

As a protective measure, we are closing our borders until further notice. We suggest that you prepare to aggressively fight any outbreaks that may appear on your worlds, in case our quarantine is broken.

It is the Sultan's hope that this plague can be contained and then eradicated.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 08:18 am: Edit

Dear Sultan

You have out heart felt condolonces, in your hour of need.

If there isn't anything your northern Friends can do, to assist in beating this outbreak, please let us know.

As a pre-caution, we have drawn up provisional quarantine plans, of those worlds on the border - and have commence stockpiling our own vaccine's - which historicaly have had as 69% success ratio in beating the Dendran Virus.

Should you want some of our limited supply - we are more than happy to provide it.

Good luck in your endevours.

Ambassadors Kahless and Puma With Big Claws

Approved - Joint Communication - Lyran and Klingon Diplomatic Corps.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 03:56 pm: Edit

Kzinti Economy Turn 3

Total from Previous Turn 11.9 [spent 7 on CEDS and 9.6 on drones]
Capital 0
Onmap majors 0
Onmap minors 9
Onmap Provinces 11
Other (specify)
Offmap 19

Survey Roll 11
Survey Total 25
Total Income 39
Grand Total 50.9
Command Points at end of Econ 1

Econ and Repair phase expenditures:


Barony Repairs Carrier Tug, 2CC, 2SF, 3CVS, 2x(CVS+EFF) 20
1304 repairs BT, SF 3
FF (902) 2.5
Shipyard 15


40.5


Repair and Econ Expenditures 40.5


Total Expenditures 40.5
Left at end of Economic Phase: 10.4


Hydran Economy Base Turn 3

Total from Previous Turn 0
Capital 24 24
Onmap majors 5 5
Onmap minors 6 6
Onmap Provinces 22 22
Other (specify) 0
Offmap 17 17

Survey Roll 5
Survey Total 5
Total Income 74
Grand Total 74 74
0

Construction, Conversion, Repairs
4UH (free fighters used) 27
TG 10
TR 5
2HN 5
3CU (one at exp) 7.5
2xDG -> LB 4
SC 3.5
HN -> SC 1


Total 63

Expenditures:
Construction and Conversions 63

Other (Specify)
Total Expenditures 63
Left at end of Economic Phase: 11

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 04:31 pm: Edit

If you're using the new SIT costs, the UH group should be 23 and the Tug should be 8.

Personally I prefer to convert ships that are in the Home Fleet to the CV group and sub normal warships in for the scheduled group. You save another 2 EPs because of how the hybrid ships convert. However, you DO use your SB conversion in trade for this ability and the ships you are using to convert into the CV group must be in the hex. Yes, you could actually convert ships that are in a different fleet, but as any other SB can only convert 3 EPs worth of ships you will be short 2 escorts (easily accounted for with a little pre-planning).

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 07:58 am: Edit

To the Hydran Government and Guilds

It has been noted that the Hydran economy has been under pressure for some time and recent trade agreements between our Nations, have unfairly put futher unforseen pressure on the Hydran Economy. In additon the recent outbreak of Dendran Fever may topple your economy, causing signigicant economic damage to the Hydran Economy as well as large parts of the galaxy - which is a cause for concern in the Klingon Empire.

To support our Hydran Friends, the Klingon government has hereby removed all inport tariffs for Hydran Goods within 3 hexes of the Hydran/Klingon border, thereby creating the Vuldar Free Trade Zone. It is hoped the Lyrans will arrange a similar Free Trade Zone and my suggestions of this have gone to Lyran Ambassador.

In addition, to generate further trade, the Klingon government is open for negiotations on creating a Trade passage in Klingon space, between Hydran and Federation space.

As per the Federation Free Trade Pact of 165, Hydrans goods being transpored in the Trade Passage will pay the stipulated minimum transfer costs (which will reduce transfer costs of between 30% and 80%, depending on the trade item in question). This should signifcantly aid the Guilds in exporting their high quality goods, to the ample Federation markets - therefore releaving the domestic pressures currently being demonstrated.

I have therefore dispatched a team of Trade delegates to Hydrax to facilite the signing of this agreement.

It is hoped this open and friendly proposal, will assist our Southern Friends, in their time of need.

So Signed.

Emperor Mustafa
Klingon Empire, 30th June 169