Per 207.21, it looks to me like it's allowed for the Feds to enter as long as they have Kzinti permission (which is hereby granted).

However, this game has so many rulings, changes, etc. that I won't be surprised if you find a more recent contrary authority.

By Robert Padilla (Zargan) on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 11:57 am: Edit

I figured it would have been an issue of tracing supply to an off-map area. You can trace supply to your own, but I didn't think you could trace supply to an allied off-map area. But the Expeditionary Fleet things works do, I think...

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 01:13 pm: Edit

William

The good news - your right!

The bad news - the FRD needs to be in full supply to really work (it can be in an Expeditionary Fleet...but it needs the Ep's to do the repairs...which may or may not be a
problem !!!)

I also thought only the Empire's own bases/FRD's can do CEDs repairs...but I can't see it!

You live and lean!

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 03:12 pm: Edit

Yeah, I am aware of the supply issues. The way I figure it, the threat of opening up a line from 2201 to the Barony has enough value that it makes sense to send the FRD there.

I imagine you will generally have that line shut during my econ. phase. But I can still use the FRD if I can open it up during the CEDS step -- and that should be much more difficult for you to stop.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 03:25 am: Edit

Well the poor Coalition can just about afford a full build (and the odd cripple or two)

Lyrans

Rolled 14 for Exploration

Total Balance/income 133.4

DN - 16
CA STT (S) 10
CW - 5
2 x DW - 8
3 x FF - 7.5
2 x CW, DW 3CVL (S) 18
64.5

2 x PDU 14
FRD 10
Conversions

(Yep, no conversions - forgot to have a CL or CA in 408...but have no cash, so no biggie!)


Repairs
1809 6
408 All but CW 8
608 All 8
809 CC 2
707 DWS 1.5
705 CW 1.5
504 CA 2
404 All 8
Far Stars 3 x DW, 2 x CL 7.5
44.5

Balance 0.4 Ep's

Klingons

Rolled 8 for exploration

Balance/Income 141.155

C8 - 16
D7 D6M (S) 10
7 x D5 - 35
2 x F5L 2 x F5 (S) 6
F5 F5S (S) 4
2 x F5 2 x F5 6
3 x E4 - 7.5
2 x D5, F5 3D5V 17
B10 5 (No 1 B10, 5 rolled total 21)
106.5
Mothball
2 x D6 2

Repaiirs
1011 CVL 1.5
1807 D6M, TGB, 2 x D5, F5 9
1811 D7C 2
1813 2 x F5 2
2014 2 x F5 2
1716 2FV, AD5 3.5
2416 D5 1.5
2517 D6 2
2519 F5, E4 2
2318 D7, 2 x F5 4
2519 2 x F5 2

1507 F5, FF 2


Total 33.5
Scrap
1 x CU 1

Balance 0.15 Ep's

Tugs to be confirmed, but off hand
2 x Klingon Supply
1 x Lyran Supply
1 x Klingon FRD
1 x Lyran FRD
2 x Lyran PDU
1 x Klingon PDU
1 x Klingon MB

Alas my brain died on me last night - so no moves done yet!

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Coalition turn 8 op move is under way. Apparently he doesn't appreciate the Hydrans in Klingon space as he sent a big fleet to attack them. Also he is attacking various Fed and Kzinti points in the North. The Fed fleet is entirely in the North (the only forces South of 2610 are frozen ships and a crip). As a result the Feds have near parity with the Klingons in the North and are reacting to defend their bases. Under attack so far are 2106 [attacking force not yet big enough to take the planet] and 2308 [currently roughly an even fight]

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 07:45 am: Edit

Following the victorious battle in 1514 , the on the ground Coalition Ccmmander was shocked to find Federation Weapons in the hands of Hydran 'murderers' - who had been butchering inocent civilians.

Until the Guilty within the Hydran Government are brough to justice, no Hydran Military personal will be captured, and will be executed on the spot for War Crimes.

It is hoped the Hydran Monarch will personally see to the handing over to an international court, the Hydran military offices who ordered this massacre, of so many inncoent civilians.

Due to the involvement of the Federation in this attocity, a reciprical raid on the Home worlds (Earth, Vulcan, Rigel and Andor) of the leading members of the Federation Council has been ordered, so that the the Federation and it's citizens will not escape from the horrors it's war.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 07:47 am: Edit

Lead elements of the Klingon Eastern Fleet have succesfully broken through the Federations defences and a large battle in 2808 is taking place.

Elsewhere, 4 BATS have been destroyed and 1 Minor planet captured.

The highlight so far, is the destruction of a Federation Battle Tug. Coalition losses are so far in the region of 10-12 cripples.

Will the Coalition capture Earth this turn (highly unlikely, but it's something for the Peanut Gallery to watch!)?

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 08:24 am: Edit

My beloved Hydrans!

Ambassador Jones has given Me incontrovertible proof that his Federation is at war with the vile and despicable Klingons.

Any Humans or Vulcans that you may encounter in the coming years should be treated with the respect and generousity due to a comrade in arms.

Let us hope that the Federation fleet is as powerful as ours is, and their economy as bountiful as ours!

To Victory!

your Sultan

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 04:13 am: Edit

Klingon Admiralty News Release

Should the Commander of the Klingon Eastern Fleet return from the action in the Federation Captial, he will be demoted to the Command of a ISF Police Vessel patrolling the safest part of the Empire.

The Empire expects it's Commanders to be brave and bold - but not suicidal.

Intitial reports indicate every single ship of the Eastern Fleet, baring his own Flagship, has been crippled in overly ambitious attacks.

The 21 crippled ships have only gained the Glory of Killing 1 Federation DD, 4 PDU's, crippling half a dozen or so Federation vessels, and killing over 60 fighters - yet not one Federation Homeworld planet is a blaze.

It is hoped the Commander will salvage honour for his fleet, from his personal defeat.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 08:02 am: Edit

Well, 2908 is probably nearly over (you can never tell with those Klingons though ).

I think I just got greedy in trying for 2 devastated planets - the odd 60 odd fighters (2 SB's reacted in, plus the 3 in the hex) just took a while to chew through - resulting in my weak fleet (pretty much the at start Eastern Fleet, less some of the D hulls and no carriers) just not having the strength to do it.

Economically, it's not too bad (28 Ep's of PDU's killed for example, although they are not worth that!)- but it could have been alot better.

We all live and learn!

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 04:59 pm: Edit

In what can only be described as sadistic actions, the enemy recently pressed home two battles which it had no chance of winning.

Starfleet Command considers this to be firm proof of the enemy's depraved nature, and of its lack of respect for intelligent life, be it Human, Vulcan, Kzinti, Klingon, Lyran, or otherwise.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 08:15 am: Edit

Well, the battle over 1704 has ended.

Total dead was limited to a Federation DN, Klingon D6M and Lyran CA (was already crippled).

The Federation suffered a 100% casualty ratio with all 11 other Federation ships being crippled. The Kzinti crippled 2 Ships and the Coalition about 22. The SB took no further damage.

The final Battle saw a Federation BATS die in exchange for the crippling of a F5.

Retrogrades are underway and full results for the turn will follow.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 04:51 pm: Edit

Coalition Turn 8 - Summary of casualties

Klingons
D6M, F5L, 2 x F5E killed - huge pile of cripples

Lyrans
CA killed - huge pile of cripples

Hydrans
LN, CR, HN killed - plus a couple of cripples

Kzinti
2 x EFF, 2 x PDU, 1 x BATS killed - plus several cripples

Federation
Tug+Battle Pod, DN, DD, 2 x PDU, 5 x BATS killed - plus a large pile of cripples

Coalition spent 16.5 Ep's on Field Repair and CEDS.

Over to the Alliance!

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 10:56 pm: Edit

Fed economy Turn 8

Total from previous turn -9.25
Base 221
On-Map -39
Off-Map 4

Survey Roll 22
Survey Total 58
Total Income 186
Grand Total 176.75


Econ and Repair phase expenditures:

4CVA 57
CA TG 6
3NCL 15
FF FFS 4
2FF 6
Battle Pod 8

Activations 8

Conversions
Earth CA+DD+FF -> 3CVS 16
2nd, 5th, 6th 3x(CA -> CC) 6
2808, 2907 2x(FF -> FFS) 2

Repairs:
Earth 13.5
SBs adjacent to Earth 6
2nd fleet SB 2
3 Northern BATS 4
3215 1.5

Homeless ships --
Support lines for 8 homeless Kzinti ships, including up to 3 carrier groups 7

Total Expenditures 162
Left at end of Economic Phase: 14.75

Command points: 2

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 11:00 pm: Edit

Kzinti Economy Turn 8

Total from Previous Turn -6.6
Capital
Onmap majors
Onmap minors
Onmap Provinces
Scrap CW 2
Offmap 25

Survey Roll 10
Survey Total 81
Total Income 27
Grand Total 20.4


Econ and Repair Phase Expenditures

EFF 3.5

Barony repairs 2CC, 4BC, FF, 2SF 15

Support line for 1 homeless Fed ship 0.5

Total E+R expenditures 19

Left at end of Econ Phase 1.4

Command Points:
Start: 1
Received and Purchased 1

Partial Grid (Marquis SB)
Provinces 2
NZ 0.6
Total 2.6

Econ/Repair Phase Expenditures:
Supply 10 ships 2

Left at end of Econ: 0.6

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 11:01 pm: Edit

Hydran Economy Turn 8

Total from Previous Turn -0.7
Capital 12
Onmap majors 5
Onmap minors 4
Onmap Provinces 13
Other (specify)
Offmap 23

Survey Roll 11
Survey Total 64
Total Income 57
Grand Total 56.3


Econ and Repair Phase Expenditures

Repairs:
Offmap 2
Hydrax 5.5
1st 6

Build:
PAL 22
TR 5
CU 2.5
Skipped: RN, 2HR, 2CU, 3HN 0

Convert:
HN -> SC 1
RN+LN+2HN -> 4CV 12

Total E+R expenditures 56

Left at end of Econ Phase 0.3

Also 6 command points available (haven't spent any . . .)

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 09:26 pm: Edit

Alliance turn 8 op move is done.

The Kzinti are trying to recapture a bunch of their planets.

The Feds are trying to kill an FRD and MB setup. There are also a bunch of Fed vs. Klingon pinning battles.

The Coalition has been trying to avoid committing large forces to the Hydran front. The Hydrans are responding with a brazen move into a bunch of Southern Klingon provinces. It will be interesting to see whether or not this is finally enough to draw a vigorous Coalition response.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 05:35 pm: Edit

Well, Coalition Moral is nearly broken.

In the first 9 battle rounds of Alliance turn 8(all minor, although the right roll caused the death of a Coalition ship or two) - the averages are 3.56 Alliance v 3.89 Alliance.

Only 1 battle lasted more than 1 round - the rest were single battle rounds.

Then we had the the main battle 2409 (Coalition FRD and MB being set up).

After 6 rounds, the averages was 4.17 Alliance v 2.33 Coalition.

Every round the Alliance had lower (generally 30% lower) compot, but in 4 of the 6 rounds has done more damage. Average Percentage damage is 25.833% Alliance v 20.833% Coalition. Highest I rolled has been a 3.

What can I do?

What ever tactic William and I have tried has become meaningless - the Coalition are just not able to do anything against these dice.

Shock Rolls - Something like Failed ratio is twice what it should be

Persuit - Coalition is probably slightly behind the average (not alot of persuits recently). Alliance is slightly ahead in succesful persuits.

Damage -
Small Battles - (Single round affairs almost entirely) - Alliance is probably marginally below average. Coalition is probably average/marginally above average.

Major battles - Alliance is significantly above average, Coalition is significantly below average.

I am not quiet at the point of quiting - but the dice are just so destroying the game, I am not currently enjoying it (and it is getting more and more annoying)

Hopefully. we will get the turn finished over the next couple of days and see how we feel.

Any suggestions?

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 05:52 pm: Edit

Appease the gods of chance! Cast the offending dice into the purifying fire!



Other than that, no a whole lot you can do when you're having a "statue" sort of game.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Dice have indeed been absurd. I don't like it either. I like to learn something from my games. But with these dice I can't learn much of anything.

Actually, come to think of it, I did learn one thing. I used to think that F&E had so many rolls in it that dice couldn't really decide a game. I now know that's not true.

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Change up which dice roll you get. Decide who gets the first, second, or third before you click on the dice roller. You may still get bad results but at least it will not always be from using the same combination.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 04:37 am: Edit

Thats just it - we do change the order!

Who ever is the attacker is the 2nd dice - defender is the 3rd dice (VBIR is 1st dice).

When I am attacking - defender rolls well. When I am defending, attacher rolls well (and it doesn't seem to matter who actually rolls - we use a dice server).

It is maddening, and illogical, but the dice just continue to massively favour the Alliance - and after what 600 or so combat rounds - you would expect them to balance out.

By David Slatter (Davidas) on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 04:37 am: Edit

There is only one thing I can think of - and that is to use a "pack of numbers". I.e. have a randomiser that has 10 1s, 10 2s, 10 3s, etc....

It picks out one of the remaining options each time you take a *combat* roll (only). So, eventually, you get the same number of 1-6s. other rolls stay truely random, or are taken from a different pack of numbers

I don't know of any dice servers that can do that tho. There may be some card sharp sites that do somthing like it with cards tho. And it may be possible to set up an excel spreadsheet.

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 05:48 am: Edit

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Quote:

That's just it - we do change the order!

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