Multi Player Combat for ISC War
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Multi Player Combat for ISC War
Here's a rough draft of rules for Multi Player Combat. It should elimate the problems of player 1 and player 2 fighting a round and then player 1 fighting player 3, followed by player 2 fighting player 3 before starting over.
Let me know what you think sucks and what works. I know there is a lot of room for improvement.
(3MC.0) Multi Player Combat
By Thomas Mathews
Towards the end of the General War when the ISC started their intelligence gathering in the Gorn/Romulan Neutral Zone they encountered fierce battles. Some of the battles resulted in ISC ships being engaged in combat by one or both of the other empires.
(3MC.1) Procedure
Normal Rules for combat between two players is followed except as modified below.
(3MC.11) Battle Force: Each player builds a legal battle force subject to command limits and other applicable rules including battle groups (315.0), Admirals (316.0), Marine Major Generals (321.0), Gun Line Groups (391.42), etc.
(3MC.12) Battle Intensity Rating: The 2 General War fleets chose their BIR and announce it normally. The ISC player may then increase this BIR up to maximum BIR of 8.
(3MC.13) Variable Battle Intensity Rating: The VBIR roll is resolved normally.
(3MC.14) Choosing Damage Percentages: The percentage of damage to be applied is secretly recorded and then revealed at the time of damage determination step. See (5MC.2).
(3MC.14) Determining Damage: The amount of damage a battle fleet does is determined normally. Note that there may be 1 or more EW shifts. See (5MC.3).
(3MC.2) Applying Damage
(3MC.21) General War Fleets: A non ISC player may apply their damage to either the non ISC fleet or divide it between the non ISC and ISC fleets any percentage desired. These percentages are revealed simultaneously, but before the ISC player reveals his choice.
(3MC.22) ISC Fleet: The ISC player may apply his damage evenly between the two opposing fleets unless one side does more damage than the other fleet to the ISC fleet. If one non ISC player does more than 50% and more than the other non ISC player, then the ISC player may apply a percentage of damage equal to the percentage applied by the non ISC player.
(3MC.23) Directed Damage Attacks: If a player divides his damage equally at 50% then he may make a directed damage attack against each of his two opponents. This is an exception to (302.5)
(3MC.3) Electronic Warfare
(3MC.33) Electronic Warfare: If not using the advanced Electronic Warfare rules in (313.0) then no changes are made from the basic rule (308.5). If using the advanced Electronic Warfare (313.0) rules the following changes are used:
(3MC.331) EW Points: Each battle force determines the total number of EW points available and then secretly records how they will be divided between the other 2 opposing fleets. This follows the same procedure in (5MC.14)
(3MC.332) EW Shift: Any resulting shift is applied to the damage determination roll. Note that this might result in a -1 shift versus one player and a -2 shift versus the other player.
(3MC.4) Special Units
This rule covers those units that have special rules.
(3MC.41) Maulers: There is no change to maulers. They may attack any eligible target in either fleet subject to other rules.
(3MC.42) Drone Ships: There is no change to Drone Bombardment (309.0).
(3MC.43) Stasis Field Generators: Units eligible to use Stasis Field Generators (312.0) are divided into three classes.
(3MC.431)Single SFG Units: Those ships and bases having a single SFG installed fall into this category. Each stasis unit may use its stasis field generator on one opposing fleet. Example: A D5A could only use its SFG on either the ISC fleet or the non ISC fleet subject to normal stasis rules.
(3MC.432) Dual SFG B10: A B10AA may use both of its SFGs against one and only fleet if the total adjusted BIR is between 4 and 7. If the total adjusted BIR is 8 or greater than the B10AA may use 1 SFG against the ISC player and 1 SFG against the non ISC player, or it may use them both against a single player.
(3MC.433) Dual SFG Bases: A base with 2 SFGs may use one against the ISC player and one against the non ISC player if the BIR allows for the use of SFGs.
(3MC.45) SWACS: SWACs going wild (518.43) affect all sides as per the existing rule.
(3MC.46) Klingon Penal Ships: Only the Sacrifice Mission (528.411) is modified as follows. This mission may only be applied against one opposing force. This is chosen before the announcement of any directed damage attacks by either opposing player.
Hmmm, on BIR, shouldn't that be the attacking (Phasing) player and who he designates as the defender (if not attacking a base)?
Poor wording on my part. I will have to find a better way of wording it, but you are essentially correct.
I will also be adding a rule for bases too.
Here's Revision 2. Expanded greatly to account for bases and PDUs/PGBs. If you would like a PDF copy of these rules please email me at the address in my profile with the subject Multi Player Combat Rules.
(3MC.0) Multi Player Combat
By Thomas Mathews
Towards the end of the General War when the ISC started their intelligence gathering in the Gorn/Romulan Neutral Zone they encountered fierce battles. Some of the battles resulted in ISC ships being engaged in combat by one or both of the other empires.
(3MC.1) Procedure
Normal Rules for combat between two players is followed except as modified below.
(3MC.11) Battle Force: Each player builds a legal battle force subject to command limits and other applicable rules including battle groups (315.0), Admirals (316.0), Marine Major Generals (321.0), Gun Line Groups (391.42), etc.
(3MC.12) Battle Intensity Rating: The two phasing (attacking) player and the non-phasing player chose their BIR and announce it normally. The ISC player may then increase this BIR up to maximum BIR of 8.
(3MC.13) Variable Battle Intensity Rating: The VBIR roll is resolved normally.
(3MC.14) Choosing Damage Percentages: The percentage of damage to be applied is secretly recorded and then revealed at the time of damage determination step. See (5MC.2).
(3MC.14) Determining Damage: The amount of damage a battle fleet does is determined normally. Note that there may be 1 or more EW shifts. See (5MC.3).
(3MC.2) Applying Damage
(3MC.21) General War Fleets: A non ISC player may apply their damage to either the non ISC fleet or divide it between the non ISC and ISC fleets any percentage desired. These percentages are revealed simultaneously, but before the ISC player reveals his choice.
(3MC.22) ISC Fleet: The ISC player may apply his damage evenly between the two opposing fleets unless one side does more damage than the other fleet to the ISC fleet. If one non ISC player does more than 50% or more and the other ISC player does less than 50%, then the ISC player may apply a percentage of damage equal to the percentage applied by the non ISC player.
(3MC.23) Directed Damage Attacks: If a player divides his damage equally at 50% then he may make a directed damage attack against each of his two opponents. This is an exception to (302.5)
(3MC.231) Multiple Maulers: If a player’s battle force has 2 maulers and the required number of consorts for each mauler then 1 mauler may be used in each directed damage attack normally.
(3MC.3) Electronic Warfare
(3MC.33) Electronic Warfare: If not using the advanced Electronic Warfare rules in (313.0) then no changes are made from the basic rule (308.5). If using the advanced Electronic Warfare (313.0) rules the following changes are used:
(3MC.331) EW Points: Each battle force determines the total number of EW points available and then secretly records how they will be divided between the other two opposing fleets. This follows the same procedure in (5MC.14)
(3MC.332) EW Shift: Any resulting shift is applied to the damage determination roll. Note that this might result in a -1 shift versus one player and a -2 shift versus the other player.
(3MC.333) Multi Base EW Points: If a battle hex contains two bases that collocated then each base applies it’s EW points against one and only one of two opposing forces at full effect. A third base is reduced under the current rules and could be split as per (3MC.331).
(3MC.334) PDUs and PGBs EW Points: If a planet contains more than 4 PDUs and/or PGBs the EW points generated under (317.2) then a maximum of 8 EW points may be used but must be split equally between opposing fleets under (3MC.331).
(3MC.4) Special Units
This rule covers those units that have special rules.
(3MC.41) Maulers: There is no change to maulers. They may attack any eligible target in either fleet subject to other rules.
(3MC.42) Drone Ships: There is no change to Drone Bombardment (309.0).
(3MC.43) Stasis Field Generators: Units eligible to use Stasis Field Generators (312.0) are divided into three classes.
(3MC.431)Single SFG Units: Those ships and bases having a single SFG installed fall into this category. Each stasis unit may use its stasis field generator on one opposing fleet. Example: A D5A could only use its SFG on either the ISC fleet or the non ISC fleet subject to normal stasis rules.
(3MC.432) Dual SFG B10: A B10AA may use both of its SFGs against one and only one fleet if the total adjusted BIR is between 4 and 7. If the total adjusted BIR is 8 or greater than the B10AA may use one SFG against the ISC player and one SFG against the non ISC player, or it may use them both against a single player.
(3MC.433) Dual SFG Bases: A base with two SFGs may use one against the ISC player and one against the non ISC player if the BIR allows for the use of SFGs.
(3MC.45) SWACS: SWACs going wild (518.43) affect all sides as per the existing rule.
(3MC.46) Klingon Penal Ships: Only the Sacrifice Mission (528.411) is modified as follows. This mission may only be applied against one opposing force. This is chosen before the announcement of any directed damage attacks by either opposing player.
(3MC.5) Bases and Planets
(3MC.51) Approach Battles: If the owner of a base or planet accepts the first approach battle, then the approach battle is fought normally following the multi player combat rules (3MC.0). Should the owner of the planet or base do more total damage than the other 2 players individually they have the following options:
1. Continue to fight approach battles normally.
2. Retreat to the base and allow The other 2 players to fight against each other. The two remaining players continue to resolve combat until one or both retreat from the hex. If one side retreats and the other does not proceed under the normal combat rules.
Should the owner do less than damage than either of the other 2 players then the battle continues around the base under the muti player combat rules.
(3MC.52) Bases: Single Bases operate normally in combat following the current rules. Multiple Bases are handled in a slightly different way from the current rules.
(3MC.521) Multiple Bases: If two or more bases are collocated then the second base does not fight at a reduced combat value. A third base does contribute at a reduced value under the normal rules.
(3MC.53) PDUs/PGBs: PDUs and PGBs operate normally within the rules.
Version 3. Added Retreat and Pursuit. Cleaned up some grammar and spelling issues.
(3MC.0) Multi Player Combat
By Thomas Mathews
Towards the end of the General War when the ISC started their intelligence gathering in the Gorn/Romulan Neutral Zone they encountered fierce battles. Some of the battles resulted in ISC ships being engaged in combat by one or both of the other empires.
(3MC.1) Procedure
Normal Rules for combat between two players is followed except as modified below.
(3MC.11) Battle Force: Each player builds a legal battle force subject to command limits and other applicable rules including battle groups (315.0), Admirals (316.0), Marine Major Generals (321.0), Gun Line Groups (391.42), etc.
(3MC.12) Battle Intensity Rating: The two phasing (attacking) player and the non-phasing player chose their BIR and announce it normally. The ISC player may then increase this BIR up to maximum BIR of 8.
(3MC.13) Variable Battle Intensity Rating: The VBIR roll is resolved normally.
(3MC.14) Choosing Damage Percentages: The percentage of damage to be applied is secretly recorded and then revealed at the time of damage determination step. See (5MC.2).
(3MC.14) Determining Damage: The amount of damage a battle fleet does is determined normally. Note that there may be 1 or more EW shifts. See (5MC.3).
(3MC.2) Applying Damage
(3MC.21) General War Fleets: A non ISC player may apply their damage to either the non ISC fleet or divide it between the non ISC and ISC fleets any percentage desired. These percentages are revealed simultaneously, but before the ISC player reveals his choice.
(3MC.22) ISC Fleet: The ISC player may apply his damage evenly between the two opposing fleets unless one side does more damage than the other fleet to the ISC fleet. If one non ISC player does more than 50% or more and the other ISC player does less than 50%, then the ISC player may apply a percentage of damage equal to the percentage applied by the non ISC player.
(3MC.23) Directed Damage Attacks: If a player divides his damage equally at 50% then he may make a directed damage attack against each of his two opponents. This is an exception to (302.5)
(3MC.231) Multiple Maulers: If a player’s battle force has 2 maulers and the required number of consorts for each mauler then 1 mauler may be used in each directed damage attack normally.
(3MC.3) Electronic Warfare
(3MC.33) Electronic Warfare: If not using the advanced Electronic Warfare rules in (313.0) then no changes are made from the basic rule (308.5). If using the advanced Electronic Warfare (313.0) rules the following changes are used:
(3MC.331) EW Points: Each battle force determines the total number of EW points available and then secretly records how they will be divided between the other two opposing fleets. This follows the same procedure in (5MC.14)
(3MC.332) EW Shift: Any resulting shift is applied to the damage determination roll. Note that this might result in a -1 shift versus one player and a -2 shift versus the other player.
(3MC.333) Multi Base EW Points: If a battle hex contains two bases that collocated then each base applies its EW points against one and only one of two opposing forces at full effect. A third base is reduced under the current rules and could be split as per (3MC.331).
(3MC.334) PDUs and PGBs EW Points: If a planet contains more than 4 PDUs and/or PGBs the EW points generated under (317.2) up to a maximum of 8 EW points may be used but must be split as equally as possible between opposing fleets under (3MC.331). A maximum of 4 EW points may be applied against each opposing force.
(3MC.4) Special Units
This rule covers those units that have special rules.
(3MC.41) Maulers: There is no change to maulers. They may attack any eligible target in either fleet subject to other rules.
(3MC.42) Drone Bombardment: There is no change to Drone Bombardment (309.0).
(3MC.43) Stasis Field Generators: Units eligible to use Stasis Field Generators (312.0) are divided into three classes.
(3MC.431)Single SFG Units: Those ships and bases having a single SFG installed fall into this category. Each stasis unit may use its stasis field generator on one opposing fleet. Example: A D5A could only use its SFG on either the ISC fleet or the non ISC fleet subject to normal stasis rules.
(3MC.432) Dual SFG B10: A B10AA may use both of its SFGs against one and only one fleet if the total adjusted BIR is between 4 and 7. If the total adjusted BIR is 8 or greater than the B10AA may use one SFG against the ISC player and one SFG against the non ISC player, or it may use them both against a single player.
(3MC.433) Dual SFG Bases: A base with two SFGs may use one against the ISC player and one against the non ISC player if the BIR allows for the use of SFGs.
(3MC.434) Carrier Groups: Only one directed damage attack may be made on any given carrier group. If a player’s battle force includes two carrier groups then each opposing player may make a directed damage attack on one different carrier group.
(3MC.45) SWACS: Going wild (518.43) affect all sides as per the existing rules.
(3MC.46) Klingon Penal Ships: Only the Sacrifice Mission (528.411) is modified as follows. This mission may only be applied against one opposing force. This is chosen before the announcement of any directed damage attacks by either opposing player.
(3MC.5) Bases and Planets
(3MC.51) Approach Battles: If the owner of a base or planet accepts the first approach battle, then the approach battle is fought normally following the multi player combat rules (3MC.0). Should the owner of the planet or base do more total damage than the other 2 players individually they have the following options:
1. Continue to fight approach battles normally.
2. Retreat to the base and allow the other 2 players to fight against each other. The two remaining players continue to resolve combat until one or both retreat from the hex. If one side retreats and the other does not proceed under the normal combat rules.
Should the owner do less than damage than either of the other 2 players then the battle continues around the base under the multi player combat rules.
(3MC.52) Bases: Single Bases operate normally in combat following the current rules. Multiple Bases are handled in a slightly different way from the current rules.
(3MC.521) Multiple Bases: If two or more bases are collocated then the second base does not fight at a reduced combat value. A third base does contribute at a reduced value under the normal rules.
(3MC.53) PDUs/PGBs: PDUs and PGBs operate normally within the rules. The maximum number of PDUs/PGBs that may be destroyed remains at 4.
(3MC.6) Retreat and Pursuit
(3MC.61) Retreat: Should one side decide to retreat while the other two sides remain in the hex then that side will not participate in any more combat until the pursuit battle. See (3MC.62). Unlike (302.76), there may be 2 separate pursuit battles at the option of the pursuing player.
(3MC.62) Pursuit: Once two of the three sides have decided to retreat a pursuit battle (307.0) may be fought using the following procedure.
(3MC.621) Procedure: The pursuing player determines what ships will pursue each retreating enemy force normally. The pursuing player then makes the pursuit die roll normally for each pursuing force.
(3MC.622) Combat: Pursuit battle combat takes place normally under the normal (300.0) rules, except there will be one battle for each pursuing force.
Weren't these rules already being developed by Chuck (or whoever is in charge of doing ISC War)? If so than this proposal may be redundant (or unnecessary).
I couldn't find anything anywhere on them. I know there are some in the EB scenario. I haven't looked at them. Mostly to avoid copying there work.
The ideas for how to resolve it as posted in the ISC War Rules Topic for multi player combat did not appeal to me. So I've decided to try and work out something else. I'm sure the one above needs a lot of work.
The Multi-player rules used in EB were designed for the regular game. We decided to try them in EB because it is a multi-sided scenario and multiple side battle hexes would surely come up.
The initial decision and rules included for the MP rules included in with the EB set for multi-sided play was to determine turn order. This section is separate from the actual MP rules and should be left out of the conversation for ISC war.
Everything else was an extrapolation of the official rules laid out in the book. I am not saying either that they do not need work only that they have been play-tested at 3 Origins in a row with some success.
These rules contain an "ISC specific" element but may be a good example of how to fold the ISC rules into the other MP rules. The thought in design behind them was for all multi-player action.
The MP rules I saw were so obtuse I cancelled doing ISC War until Chuck agreed there would be no MP rules.
SVC, are there any plans or place for multi player rules in F&E in the future? I have a couple of improvements to my current idea. However if this is a dead horse I will move on to other things.
The MP rules I saw were so obtuse I canceled doing ISC War until Chuck agreed there would be no MP rules.
HA HA...no multi-player rules in a three sided game...now that's funny! You must be in a great mood because of all the new products that went out this week. Did it get decided then that the Alliance and Coalition were on the same side in this one? 
C'mon SVC stop pulling our legs. I think you have a master plan about this ISC war gig...You and Chuck cooked up a great scenario and rules set and you are just waiting until the holidays to spring the good news on us...well next week is the official start of the holiday season so go ahead and spring it already.
Those MP rules you saw (if they are the same set I am thinking of) were a direct pull and extrapolation from the rules you laid forth...really they were. Now we can boil them down a bit as they were a fully thought out rough draft that attempted to cover everything. Each part was looked at as a "what if" situation specifically for the regular F&E game. We can go back to the design board but there is some good stuff in there...necessary stuff.
I thought they were so obtuese that I cancelled ISC War until Chuck agreed that there would be no MP rules in ISC war.
I think that pretty much covered my true and real feelings on the matter.
If there are better rules around, then we'll look at them. LATER.
As I said recently, I don't see ISC War happening before 2011 and I'm pretty much going to ignore the entire subject until F&E 2010 is finished. I really don't expect to even think about ISC war before Origins, when I will try to read whatever Chuck has come up with and will make some scribbles on it in an FTF meeting there.
Basically, every minute that you guys drag me into an ISC war discusson delays F&E 2010 by one day.
Please Don't think about it SVC.
Can we scribble here and hope you will ignore us until 2011?
Better still, ignore this even in 2011 so Chick can come up with another multiplayer recommendation or some other alternative, perhaps having read this for you.
Hey! This Chick is NOT going to come up with multi-player ideas. Nope, not me!