11-Lyran SIT Updates

Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E Master SITs: 11-Lyran SIT Updates
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Lyran SIT files  1   03/06 06:09pm

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 06:08 pm: Edit

Lyran Battleships: BB: Doesn't specify that it is conjectural in the notes. - Eric S. Smith 1 Jan 2009
STRONG: RECOMMENDATION: Add "Conjectural" to notes section of all BBs.
SVC: added to all five.
==========
Lyran Battleships: BB: No rule reference under date available like other BBs (should be (436.0) beside date) - Eric S. Smith 1 Jan 2009
STRONG: RECOMMENDATION: Add "(436.0)" After YIS.
SVC: added to all five.
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Lyran Battleships: BB: INTERROGATIVE: Should the conversion note: "ALL DATA regarding DN/CA to BB conversions is controversial and provisional and has not been approved." Be added? This was the same note used for the 2012 SIT updates for the Federation DNG to BB conversions. STRONG Ė 12 Feb 2012
SVC: No, that was just for the Feds because I donít think you can actually convert a Fed DNG or CA into a BB without melting it down.
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Lyran Dreadnoughts: CVA: CA>DN>CVA=6+[4+24]-1=9+24 [currently SIT cost is 7+24]. Two-step conversions should get a 1 EP discount (437.2). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS.
SVC: I cannot tell what you want changed or what to change it to so I did not change it.
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Lyran Dreadnoughts: SCS: Change CV>DN>SCS to 8á [currently listed as 12á on the SIT]. The cost is higher than the CA>DN>SCS=10+12á non fighter cost (i.e., 8 vs 10). This cost was set in the SIT archive notes on 30 July 2008 to 12 EPs. I do not think that anybody looked that the SSDs at that time. On the SSDs, the outer hulls on the CV vs SCS are almost identical (you need to convert 2xPH3, 1xEMER to 2xPH1, 2xFLAG). The CA vs SCS would have to do the same conversions on the outer hulls as the CV plus 8xHULLS to 14xSHUTTLE. The center hull for both the CA and CV are identical so would require the same conversion. I therefore suggest the cost should be changed to 8. Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: RECOMMENDATION: Change conversion cost: From CV: 8á. Rationale: No changes are made to the carrier suite; this is essentially adding the Lyran "PFT modification" to their CV.
SVC: I donít think so.
==========
Lyran Dreadnoughts: SCS: Conversion cost for CV to SCS should be 8á. The CV has already been converted to carry 12 fighters (6 fighter factors) in the exact same manner as the SCS. The change to the center hull area that allows a full PF flotilla is the same as that of a DNP which is listed as 8á to convert from a CA. Daniel G. Knipfer 03/27/2011
STRONG: IBID.
SVC: I donít think so. Itís been 12 forever and I am going to have to think about this more and do some study on it. Itís such a huge change it needs more than one line of reports to figure it out. Where did 12 come from?
==========
Lyran Dreadnoughts: SCS: Conversion from DNP is missing. This should be 2+12. This is equal to the CA to CV conversion as it adds the same fighter capability. The total cost of the DNP and CV conversions is equal to the SCS conversion and in line with similar conversions. Daniel G. Knipfer 03/27/2011
STRONG: CONCURS: RECOMMENDATION: Add From DNP: 2+12.
SVC: done.
==========
Lyran Dreadnoughts: DNH: CA>DN>DNH=6+2-1=7á [currently SIT cost is 8]. The SIT does not list this as a two-step conversion but it is listed as one in (437.1). Two-step conversions should get a 1 EP discount (437.2). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS.
SVC: ok
==========
Lyran Dreadnoughts: DNLP: copy/paste DNL Line: Ref: 63; Factors 11FP/6P; Product: Future; CR: 9; YIS: Y178; Size: DNL(2); From CA/CC 8á+PFs (CA/CC+6EP>DNL+3EP>DNLP-1EP discount=8), From DNL 3+PFs For DN: 19+PFs; Salvage: 3.500; Note: Fast Dreadnaught (525.1), conjectural, True PF Tender. Additional rationale: The Lyran SSD shows 6 mech link and repair facilities to support a full PF Flotilla typical to other Lyran DN and BCH hulls. Thomas Mathews 3 Jan 2011
STRONG: ADD DNLP (note: this was the only report that added a ship in the file, I included it to clear-out the Lyran file and only if designer time was available to add.)
SVC: Why is in conjectural if the DNL isnít? It could be built, there were no DNLs left. Itís more of an unbuilt variant, and those donít get saddled as conjecturals.
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Lyran NCF: Conversion cost from CW should have "(minor)" added since both sub-steps of the two-step conversion each cost 3 EPs or less (437.21). CW>NCA>NCF=3+2-1=4 (minor). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; Add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: added.
==========
Lyran NCV: Add to conversions "From DDá: 6+12". DD>NCA>NCV=[5 (minor)]+[2+12]-1=6+12. This two-step conversion is listed in (437.1) but is not on the SIT. Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; Add conversion per (437.1) and minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: done.
==========
Lyran NTG: CW>NCA>NTG=3+2-1=4 (minor) [currently SIT cost is 5]. Two-step conversions should get a 1 EP discount (437.2). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; also add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: done.
==========
Lyran NDS: Add to conversions "From DDá: 9+12". DD>NCA>NDS=[5 (minor)]+[5+12]-1=9+12. This two-step conversion is listed in (437.1) but is not on the SIT. Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; Add conversion.
SVC: sure.
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Lyran War Cruisers: LTT: Conversion cost from DD should have "(minor)" added since both sub-steps of the two-step conversion each cost 3 EPs or less (437.21). DD>CW>LTT=3+3-1=5 (minor). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: added.
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Lyran War Cruisers: CVL: Conversion cost from DD should have "(minor)" added since both sub-steps of the two-step conversion each cost 3 EPs or less (437.21). DD>CW>CVL=3+[2+12]-1=4+12 (minor). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: done.
==========
Lyran War Cruisers: CWG: Conversion cost from DD should have "(minor)" added since both sub-steps of the two-step conversion each cost 3 EPs or less (437.21). DD>CW>CWG=3+2-1=4 (minor). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: done.
==========
Lyran War Cruisers: CWS: Conversion cost from DD should have "(minor)" added since both sub-steps of the two-step conversion each cost 3 EPs or less (437.21). DD>CW>CWS=3+3-1=5 (minor). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: done.
==========
Lyran War Cruisers: CWS: Conversion cost from SC should have "(minor)á" added. This is basically the same as a DD>CW>CWS=3+3=5 (minor) conversion but with EP reduction for starting as a SC so it should be a minor conversion. I am making the assumption that SC>CWS is a two-step conversion (like SC>CSV is) but it is not marked as such as on the SIT. Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: RECOMMENDATION: add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: done.
==========
Lyran War Cruisers: CVP: Conversion cost from DD should have "(minor)" added since both sub-steps of the two-step conversion each cost 3 EPs or less (437.21). DD>CW>CVP=3+[3+18]-1=5+18 (minor). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: done
==========
Lyran War Cruisers: CSV: Conversion cost from SC should have "(minor)" added since both sub-steps of the two-step conversion each cost 3 EPs or less (437.21). This is basically the same as a DD>CW>CSV=3+[5+16]-1=7+16 conversion but with a 2 EP deduction on the CW>CSV for starting as a SC which makes it minor conversion costing 5+16. Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; add minor conversion symbol delta for the conversion: confirming From SC: 5á+16. Rationale: SC(@2EW)+3EP>(converting to larger CW hull with 2EW)+(5EP for scout-carrier less 2EP for already having two scout channels)>CSV (a variant of the larger hull) less 1EP for two step conversion.
SVC: done
==========
Lyran War Cruisers: CVH: Conversion cost from DD should have "(minor)" added since both sub-steps of the two-step conversion each cost 3 EPs or less (437.21). DD>CW>CVH=3+[2+16]-1=4+16 (minor). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: done.
==========
What about CWE? Ah, it only costs 3, so no mark needed.
What about STJ? I decided not to do that one.
What about CSV from DD? I did that one.
==========
Lyran Heavy War Destroyers: HDW: Conversion cost from FF should have "(minor)" added since both sub-steps of the two-step conversion each cost 3 EPs or less (437.21). FF>DW>HDW=3+[2+1]-1=4+1 (minor). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: done.
==========
Lyran War Destroyers: DWS: Conversion cost from FF should have "(minor)" added since both sub-steps of the two-step conversion each cost 3 EPs or less (437.21). FF>DW>DWS=3+2-1=4 (minor). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: done.
==========
Lyran War Destroyers: DWG: Conversion cost from FF should have "(minor)" added since both sub-steps of the two-step conversion each cost 3 EPs or less (437.21). FF>DW>DWG=3+2-1=4 (minor). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS; add minor conversion symbol delta.
SVC: ok
==========
Lyran War Destroyers: DWV: FF>DW>DWV=3+[1+8]-1=3+8 [currently SIT cost is 4+8]. Two-step conversions should get a 1 EP discount (437.2). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: NON-CONCURS; go ahead and add minor conversion symbol delta but the cost remains unchanged as one step of the two-step conversion is a single point.
SVC: ok
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What about DWT? Oh, itís 3 point, no mark needed.
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Lyran War Destroyers: SCX: SIT factors are wrong; should be 4-8*/2-4* based on Lyran DWX at 8/4 and AO after action report in CL26 pg106. Add SIT Note: "Counter is misprinted but the SIT factors are confirmed." STRONG - 30 May 2009
SVC: We donít change counters except in extreme cases. This doesnít qualify. Live with it and do a better job of proofreading in the future.
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Lyran POL: Conversion cost is "None" but with most POL's its "óNAó" - Eric S. Smith 1 Jan 2009
STRONG: Yields to designers discretion and available time to research issue. :)
SVC: none is fine.
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Lyran Repair Docks: FRD+: Conversion cost is "From FRD: 1+6" should specify "From FRD: 2+6" - Eric S. Smith 1 Jan 2009
STRONG: CONCURS; reference is (441.411).
SVC: I am confused by "should specify"? why use that term instead of "should be"?
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Lyran Planetary Units: Colony: Cost stated (446.13) 2+2+2 should read (446.13) 1+1+1 Cost changed in Captain's Log 37. Thomas Mathews 26 Aug 2009
STRONG: CONCURS.
SVC: done.
==========

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, March 07, 2012 - 02:19 am: Edit

REPLIES TO ADB POSTS ABOVE:

Lyran Dreadnoughts: CVA: CA>DN>CVA=6+[4+24]-1=9+24 [currently SIT cost is 7+24]. Two-step conversions should get a 1 EP discount (437.2). Jeff Coutu 19 January 09
STRONG: CONCURS.
SVC: I cannot tell what you want changed or what to change it to so I did not change it.
STRONG: When ADB changed the cost of all CVA conversions from a two points to four points this particular conversion was not properly corrected in 2008. The 7+24 was the OLD cost and is wrong. The corrected conversion cost should now read "From CAá: 9+24"

==========

Lyran Dreadnoughts: SCS: Conversion cost for CV to SCS should be 8á. The CV has already been converted to carry 12 fighters (6 fighter factors) in the exact same manner as the SCS. The change to the center hull area that allows a full PF flotilla is the same as that of a DNP which is listed as 8á to convert from a CA. Daniel G. Knipfer 03/27/2011
STRONG: IBID.
SVC: I donít think so. Itís been 12 forever and I am going to have to think about this more and do some study on it. Itís such a huge change it needs more than one line of reports to figure it out. Where did 12 come from?
STRONG: Let's break this down then. Given: A Lyran CA can be converted into a DN for 6 EP. A Lyran CV is the carrier version of the CA with a compot of 8(6)/4(3) (note the six fighter factors). The Lyran SCS with compot of 12P(6)/6P(3) (note the same six fighter factors) is space control ship version of the DN. If we apply the same "CA to DN" conversion (6 EP) to the CV to make a SCS we retain the six fighters in the CV hull wings; all that is needed is to add the 3 point PFT conversion cost to the ship to make it a SCS. So the cost should state "From CVá: 8+PFs"; RATIONALE: 6 EP (DN hull conv) + 3 EP (PFT conv) - 1 EP (two-step conversion discount) = 8 EP. I have no idea where the "12" came from but it may have been a cloning error from a conversion cost in the same column.

==========

Lyran Dreadnoughts: DNLP: TYPO the DNLP is incorrectly listed as DNL in the SIT (Lyran Dreadnoughts - line 8). Recommendation: Correct typo and list as DNLP.

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar2) on Wednesday, March 07, 2012 - 08:22 am: Edit

Well, the CV/SCS for 12 is probably the 6 for the DN, 3 for the PFT/DNP and 3 for the PFs (6+3+3=12) which converts now to [6+3-1]+PFs - 8$+PF...

As for the CV/CVA, I think that 7 is the right number as it is 6 for the DN and only 2 for the carrier conversion of the DN center (adding 6 fighter factors) with the 1 EP discount on the CA/DN - [6+2-1]+12 - 7$+12

Now for the CA/CVA, the 9$+24 [6+4-1] is correct...

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar2) on Wednesday, March 07, 2012 - 09:09 am: Edit

CPX factors listed as 'None' should be '1-5 PFs'.

Missing DNE (under Strange Lyran Ships) -
DNE | 64 | 10/5 | Future? | 10 | Y150 | CA(3) | From CA: 4 | For CA: 11 | 2.75 | Obsolete hull (uses BC counter during 4PW)

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, March 07, 2012 - 10:03 am: Edit

SVC:
By the way -- thank you for working on the updated Lyran SIT.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 - 09:33 pm: Edit

Lyran: Gunboat Flotillas: CPF: Cost (524.112) 3 The cost listed under (524.112) specifically states that a causual PF group costs 3 EPs. Thomas Mathews 12 Dec 2012

Lyran: Gunboat Flotillas: CPX: Cost (524.112) 3 The cost listed under (524.112) specifically states that a causual PF group costs 3 EPs. Thomas Mathews 12 Dec 2012

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Lyran APT: SFB Ref # should be R1.8 - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran ASC: Recommend removing note (526.46) from notes column, it is already in the substitution column - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran ASC: SFB Ref # should be R1.31 - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran BATS: SFB Ref # should be R1.2. Add "From OPB: 11+6+PFs" to conversion costs. Change build cost column to "Upgrade Only". Change notes column to "Battlestation. See EW Chart. See (433.41), (441.0), and (510.3). Module Limits: 2FTM or 1FTM + 1PFM." - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran BS: Change build cost column to "Upgrade Only". Change notes to "Base Station. See (444.0). Alternative upgrade at undevastated planet without tug (444.22). Module Limits: 2FTM or 1FTM + 1PFM. See EW Chart" - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran BSX: SFB Ref # should be R1.202B. Change build cost column to "Upgrade Only". Change notes to "X-Base Station. See (444.0). See EW Chart. 50% of conversion cost is paid in XTPs. Module Limits: 2FTM or 1FTM + 1PFM." - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran BTX: SFB Ref # should be R1.202. On counter front and rear, remove P from within the () used for fighters. Change conversion cost to "From BATS: 18, From MB: 27+6, From BS: 22, From BSX: 6+6XTP" to match other races. Change build cost column to "Upgrade Only". Change notes to "X-Battlestation; see EW Chart. 50% of conversion cost is paid in XTPs., Module Limits: 2FTM + 1PFM." - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran CONVOY: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.5". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran FHL: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.62". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran FRD: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.10" - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran FRD+: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.10". Change notes to "See (441.433) With fighter modules; (421.0) without." - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran FTL: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.19". Change build cost to "(521.23): 6 (1/yr)". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran Ftr-Depot: Change notes to "Fighter Depot. See (443.0)." - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran Ftr-Module: Change designation to "FTM (Ftr-Module)" to make more sense. Change SFB Ref # to "R1.4". Change notes to "Fighter module for base or FRD (441.411)." - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran FTS: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.19". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran LAP: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.27B". Change conversion cost to "From LAS: 3" to match ISC War. - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran LAS: SFB Ref # is R1.75, all other races are R1.77 - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran LAV: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.13B". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran MB: SFB Ref # should be R1.24. Change notes column to "Mobile Base. See (510.2); EW=1, Module Limits: 2FTM or 1FTM+1PFM." - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran MC: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.20". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran MON: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.22". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran MPAL (CV): Change SFB Ref # to "R1.22E". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran MPAL (PF): Change SFB Ref # to "R1.22E". Change conversion cost to "None" to match other races and pallets. - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran MPAL (SCS): Change SFB Ref # to "R1.22E". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran OPB: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.45". Change notes to "Operational Base, moves as military convoy. (2 EW:5 AF), (1 EW:10 AF). Module Limits 2FTM or 1FTM + 1PFM ." for consistency. Move to "Mobile Support Units" section. - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran PDU: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.14". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran PF Module: Change designation to "PFM (PF Module)" for consistency. Change SFB Ref # to "R1.16". Change build cost to "(441.412): 2+PFs" for consistency. Change notes to "PF module for base or FRD." - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran PGB: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.14". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran PTR: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.67". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran PWR, module: Change designation to "PAM (Power Augmentation Module)" for consistency. Change SFB Ref # to "R1.17". Change notes to "Power augmentation module for base, (441.5). Treated as a PFM." - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran REPR: Change classification to "Large Auxiliaries (Large Freighter Hull)" to match all other races. Change SFB Ref # to "R1.25". Change notes to "Repair ship; See (422.0)". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran SAF: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.33". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran SAP: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.27A". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran SAV: Change SFB Ref # to "R1.13A". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran SB: SFB Ref # should be R1.1. Change build cost to "Upgrade Only". Change notes to "Starbase. See EW Chart. See (433.41), (441.0), and (510.3). Module Limits 4FTM+2PFM." - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran SBX: SFB Ref # should be R1.201. Change conversion cost to "From SB: 24, From STX: 18+6, From BTX: 45+6, From STB: 44+6". Change build cost to "Upgrade Only". Change notes to "X-Starbase. See EW Chart. See (433.41), (441.0), and (510.3). 50% of conversion cost must be paid in XPs. Module Limits 4FTM+2PFM." - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran STB: Change conversion cost to "From BATS: 12, From BS: 15". Change notes to "Sector Base. See EW Chart. Module, Limits: 2FTM + 1PFM.". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Lyran STX: Change conversion cost to "From STB: 10+10X, From BTX: 9+9X, From BSX: 12+12X, From BTS: 21+21X". - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

Also recommend renaming sections for consistency:
Lyran BB Battleship to just "Battleships"- Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.
Lyran BC Battlecruiser to just "Battlecruisers" - Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.
Lyran CA Heavy Cruiser to just "Heavy Cruisers"- Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.
Lyran CL Light Cruiser to just "Light Cruisers"- Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.
Lyran CW War Cruiser to just "War Cruisers"- Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.
Lyran DD Destroyer to just "Destroyers"- Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.
Lyran Dn Dreadnought to just "Dreadnoughts"- Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.
Lyran DW War Destroyer to just "War Destroyers"- Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.
Lyran FF Frigate to just "Frigates"- Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.
Lyran Hdw Heavy War Destroyer to just "Heavy War Destroyers"- Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.
Lyran NCA New Heavy Cruiser to just "New Heavy Cruisers"- Eric S. Smith 08 JAN 2013.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 08:36 pm: Edit

Lyran FFT: SIT has a YIS of 140, but R11 has a YIS of Y166, stating that they were late building one and that it could not carry pallets. SIT should probably be changed to Y166. - Richard Eitzen 07 JUL 2013.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 10:52 am: Edit

Lyran DWT: Date available should be Y165 (not Y168). Rationale: The SFB Master Ship Chart gives a YIS of 165. - Jason E. Schaff 01/12/2014

Lyran NMC: Date available should be Y175 (not Y176). Rationale: The SFB Master Ship Chart gives a YIS of 175. - Jason E. Schaff 01/12/2014

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Monday, June 16, 2014 - 07:55 pm: Edit

Lyran NSR: Needs the EW limiter of the SR (Max 4EW with SP+ or 2 KSP)


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