Why not issue the Andros coins for mauler, scout and other specialist satelite ships (or use coins to show the mauler/scout has been whacked)? This lets the Andros use raw factors for the satelite ships in general, and allows directed targeting on them to kill them (and keep them dead) in a battle hex?

Think of this as similar to the Megafighter chits that fighters are using by this time.

By James Lowry (Rindis) on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Howard, my idea was intended to amount to the same thing. Part of the idea was to be able to differentiate the different sizes of specialists (there were small and medium maulers), and it would keep some of the flavor to call them by name at that point. But the idea is 'here's a token for something that would ordinarily just be X number of SatShip factors'. And, of course, that should make it easy to remember how much "mauler effect" it gets.

Ken: C3 may say a little on the RTN (as I recall, they only had one SB-sized structure, and that's the primary facility in the LMC). I do know offhand that finding a node entailed sending out a single ship with scout sensors (which is why the SSCS was built).

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 02:05 pm: Edit

If you mean SatBase, they had loads of those planted everywhere!

The Desecrator SBs, on the other hand...

According to Module C5, the Andros built three in the Cloud. One went up in Y145 and was destroyed by the Magellanics in Y154. The second went up in Y152, was crippled in Y163 by the Magellanics, and was destroyed in Y202 while trying to build a Devastator Battleship. The third went up in Y158 and was also destroyed in Y202.


Gary

By Wes E. Tower (Grayburst) on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 07:21 am: Edit

Ken,

It might not work for everyone, but years ago, we tried an RTN concept where the placing unit (usually an Intruder or Infestor) used cloak movement rules with an enhanced bonus not to get detected to move about laying Satbase cores. Each satbase was effectively hidden as not detectable at all till the random events started unraveling the RTN. We required a satbase every six hexes to continue a route. Stategic movement was unlimited for all Andro motherships. No more than 2 Disdev could be down a specific 'rail' of an RTN link per satbase on that route. (It was assumed that mother ships would be staged so their travel was timed, with some motherships laying over at satbases till the disdev disturbances in space had calmed down from the last passage.) At the very end of a route you still only get two mother ships. We gave them a 4 hex operational movement. Coming on or off the RTN they were stealthed, a player was not required to put the ships on the board till they were complete within their first operational movement. This tended to allow the galactic player to know there was a satbase core within four hexes of the suddenly appearing Andro but nothing else. The andro player then had the choice after all combats were done for an automatic withdraw to the RTN with no cost to operational movement, or to stand fast with otpions of pulling a standard one hex visible withdraw. We also allowed satships to perform strikes away from the RTN with operational movement with the option to withdraw back to their satbase stealthfully, or to continue to move outward at 4 operational movement. Satships were out of supply after one turn away from an RTN base though (this lead to extensive use of the Andro sleds with preplaced depots hidden in out of the way systems), but this did allow satships to cross by operational movements between RTN branches, but no strategic movement allowed.

Mostly we keep track of satships, satbase locations, and mothership strategic movement points by accounting and note taking. It made playing the Andro a real bear, but it generated a log so galactic players could go back to account for all Andro movement at anytime.

Wes E. Tower

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:25 pm: Edit

I had previously been convinced that a solid set of multi-player rules would be essential before Andro War could be made to work - but afteer readign the fuss over at the new thread for mp rules, I'm not so sure.

When you think about it, does Andromedan War even need multiplayer rules to be playable in the first place? Pretty much anywhere we've see the Andros hit - Omega, Alpha and the LMC - the local factions tend to band together and resist the new invaders, or stay neutral until they get attacked in turn. There are exceptions, such as the short-lived Maghadim dispute with the Baduvai-Eneen allies over the Neutral Worlds, and more notably by the Souldra launching their own rival invasion in Omega, but by and large the campaigns we would see would boil down to Andros on one side, versus the various powers they are fighting at the time (eventually everyone).

Therefore, I would ask if it would be an idea to forget about allowing a lack of agreed-upon mp rules to keep Andro War from a place in the development cycle, and stick with an 'Andro-vs-the-rest' big scenario for that book.

If it were possible to add in the Magellanics to Andro War, which I would still hope to see (as much to allow for players to take an historical 'trial run' of the Andro campaign rules, and to facilitate an Operation Unity writeup, as to show off the Mags themselves!) careful use of the campaign rules can be enough to cover the transition between wars there (and if, for example, the Maghadim get an advantage in the turn sequence, that adequately represents their useful position in the Core anyway).

Indeed, one could highlight the intrigue between the Baduvai and Eneen 'allies' by using the Zone of Influence rules from 'Demon of the Eastern Wind' for the Neutral Worlds provinces...


As noted earlier, it might be useful in a future Omega supplement to have some sort of multi-player rules for their Andro invasion - to allow players to include the Souldra fleet, who had ambitions of their own - but since we won't see Omega for a while anyway, perhaps a gestation period for workable multi-player rules might be handy by then.

In the meantime, we can allow the Andros to have their fun against the Galactics and Magellanics!


Gary

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:32 pm: Edit

Oh, and if the full Andro war is too much for one book, perhaps the war could be divided into two supplements:

*Andromedan War - which would cover the invasion of the Alpha Octant from Y188 (the first strikes against the ISC and others) up to Y200 (the clearing of the RTN from Alpha space). This would include the 'standard' Mothership and SatShip types, as well as Andro battle stations and so forth.

*Operation Unity - this would feature a map of the LMC, rules and stats for the 3 major Magellanic factions (plus the Uthiki, as Baduvai allies, and maybe the Jumokian pirates, ready to make a play for their homeworld in Unity?), Andro units not seen in the Milky Way (such as the Desecrators and the incomplete Devastator) and a full-on OpU scenario, featuring the Alpha expeditions, the Magellanic holdouts, and the increasingly desperate Andromedans!

Scenarios covering the inter-Cloud wars between the Eneen, Baduvai and Maghadim, as well as the long conquest of the Cloud by the invaders from M31, could be added to flesh out this release.


(If an Omega supplement is ever done, a Sixth Cycle scenario including the Andros and Souldra could be interesting!)


Gary

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 11:16 pm: Edit

After noting an issue raised by Loren over at one of the Magellanic SFB threads, it seems relevant to note that if the main Andro War scenario won't go as far as Operation Unity, it should at least have the other Andromedan commitments factored into the budget, and fleet assets, available for the strike on Alpha.


From the late Y180s and early Y190s (when the Andros repeatedly smashed their way into the RYN nebula, and rolled over the Iridani New Kingdom) the Andromedans were already sending significant forces to the neighbouring Octant - and when the invasion there began proper in Y192, a significant portion of the economic and military assets the Andros were gathering together out in the Cloud was being used to give the Omega Octant and Iridani Cluster a very big headache...

...plus, the Andros had to maintain a minimum of forces in the Cloud, since even though the entire LMC was in the bag by Y188, there were still several fleets of holdout Magellanic ships out in the Fringe, desperately holding on for dear life, or perhaps desperately hoping for a chance to pop more satellite bases?


In any event, when the time comes to write up the OOB and available resources for the Andro strike on Alpha, the issue of what proportion of the sum total of Andro fleets operating in or from the Cloud are available to an F&E Andro player for going after the Alpha Octant is an important one to note.


Indeed, it'll tie into an Operation Unity scenario, too - since those resources and fleet assets being directed to Omega in the Y190s may well be added to the anti-Unity war effort, and a Unity scenario really, really should have rules including the combat power of the Magellanic holdout fleets (who had a significant role to play in the final victory over the Andros - well, the ones we know about, at least!).

So, I guess we might need to see calls made on just what kind of holdout forces were out there in the Cloud, too - not enough to put a major cramp on the invasion, but enough to show up and cause trouble in the late Y190s and in Unity proper.


Well, I want a Unity supplement to have the rules for the Magellanics and a map for the Cloud, anwyay, so it's entirely coincidental that I see it as of relevance to AndroWar overall.

Eh, heh heh heh...

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:44 pm: Edit

EDIT: Never mind.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, June 18, 2011 - 01:50 am: Edit

One thing that comes to mind, after looking through Module C3A; the four dissection beam-armed motherships (Extractor, Incisor, Dissector and Devourer) would be handy to include, in order to facilitate a variant scenario set in the alternate timeline.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 09:02 pm: Edit

Speaking of C3A, one point which stood out in the entry detailing the alternate timeline was for alt-Y198, where the alt-Feds were said to have started fielding their own PFs in order to fight the Andromedans.

I don't have the full list of pre-existing modules to hand; but if (big if, I know) there was room in Andro War, or at some later point, for a variant scenario set in the alternate timeline to be considered, are there rules (and stand-in counters) already in place to support PF use by the Federation which could be used in such a setup?

By John de Michele (Jdemichele) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Gary:

Yes, if you check the Fed SIT and 502.65, they're covered.

John.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Thanks, John; most of the F&E stuff I do have is in storage, and I haven't been able to pick up the 2010 rulebook yet...

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Sadly I think it may be another 25 years before we will see Andro war. I think that to get it right you would almost have to have an Omega map and rules for the invasion of Omega and a Magellanic map and rules for invading them. Maybe have a grand campaign where the Andro start in the Magellanic and then expand into Alpha and or Omega. The possibilty exist that an Omega or Magellanic Module wouldn't sell very well, but I believe as parts of a grand Andromedan game of conquest linking all three sectors, that would increase the sales potential. How fun would it be to fight off the Andromedan conquest on three maps and upteen piles of counters.

By Michael Tisdel (Jtisdel) on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Shawn,
If it is indeed 25 years off, then let me know which "Old Gamer's Home" you get stuck into and I'll be sure to meet you there!

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar2) on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 08:34 pm: Edit

With a better pipeline, it's probably less than 10 years away...maybe even less than 5...

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 11:07 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

I think that to get it right you would almost have to have an Omega map and rules for the invasion of Omega and a Magellanic map and rules for invading them.

---

By John de Michele (Jdemichele) on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 11:21 am: Edit

Shawn:

I have to agree with Terry. Additionally, I think that it's highly unlikely that we'll see anything from Omega in F&E. Unlike Alpha, the Omega map changes quite frequently, which seems to me to be problematic when dealing with static game components like the map.

John.

By Troy Latta (Saaur) on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 11:28 am: Edit

For paper, yes. Using a computer it'd be child's play to have dynamic borders and shift them as you play through the wars.
It'd almost be more of a 4X game at that point, really.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 11:56 am: Edit

Personally I agree with Shawn. I think having Omega and LMC F&E first would almost be required to get the balance right, with Andro War being the capstone of the whole history. Otherwise you have a major risk of having something that cannot be integrated into a coherent whole.

By John de Michele (Jdemichele) on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 01:01 pm: Edit

That doesn't really make sense. The Andromedans existed well before Omega or LMC. We had Operation Unity before them, too. Frankly, I don't think we'll ever see F&E Omega or LMC. I don't think we should go without one of the original empires just because some later products aren't there.

John.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 01:20 pm: Edit

I guess maybe you could factor out Omega, but I still really see no way to do operation unity without a LMC map. As for shifting borders I think it would be prudent to use the borders as they were just prior to the Andromedan invasion of Omega. Alternative to that is to produce a map with no borders and let counters and lines of bases define the borders per the year of the scenario being played.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 01:22 pm: Edit

I see no need to do Omega F&E before doing Andro War F&E, and have no plans to do Omega F&E first. Same for Magellanics.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, October 29, 2011 - 08:13 am: Edit

Something to note about Andro Maulers and the current 2010 Mauler rules regarding the formation bonus. Currently maulers cannot use their ability against a ship in the formation bonus. This accurately reflects the difficulty of getting the mauler close enough to the protected ship (ships in the case of an ISC echlon), but it does not account for the ability of the Andros to displace their maaler in a position advntageous enough to reduce or eliminate the protection of the formation bonus.

I was thinking that for the Andros only, (308.452) could be used against the protected ship. However, I think the amount of damage used by the Andro mauler may need to be modified at a later date when we have some more playtest rules and guidlines on the Andros.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 11:05 am: Edit

Related to Andro War:

The Kzinti SCS Goliath was converted to the SSCS design during the Andro war. See (R5.24). In conjunction with the Kzinti SIT which says that a DN can be converted to a DNH for 2 EP. This, plus a quick look at the differences between the DNH and SSCS SSDs suggest that the SSCS is a variant of the DNH hull.

By Keith D Plymale (Zaarin7) on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 04:17 pm: Edit

I have to agree with SVC on what he said. I think as someone posted above an F & E module like the old SFB OpU done in F & E style would be the easiest to do in terms of actualy getting it to the table in this decade. IMHO and acknowledge YMMV.