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	Archive through June 23, 2016	25		06/23 07:17pm
	Archive through May 20, 2019	25		05/09 05:59pm

Once again, I apologize if this should have been put in its own proposal thread elsewhere; but as with the Middle Years Paravian thoughts posted above, I was thinking of how to get the Middle Years Carnivons into the action, based on the "Carnivon Empire" timeline previewed in Captain's Log #51.

One of the takeaways I got from this report from the front was that, for a scenario aimed at playtesting the Carnivon ships and rules, there seem to be some difficulties in terms of getting the Carnivons themselves into the fight. At least, if the onus is on a Klingon-Lyran Coalition - or, perhaps, the Klingon-Kzinti Coalition presented in the Altered Alliances scenario from Captain's Log #38 - it becomes difficult to find a way to include the Carnivons in a way which both accounts for the historical animosities involved while also providing for a reasonably balanced scenario.

So, I was left to thinking: what if one were to create, say, a "four powers war" in which the Carnivons were the ones allied to the Klingons, with both the Kzintis and Lyrans fighting, if not as allies, but as de facto co-belligerents? Perhaps by modifying the "uneasy coalition" rule (6HW.23) into a "non-aligned co-belligerent" rule - one which assumes that the feline empires, perhaps through WYN go-betweens, decided to postpone their mutual resumption of hostilities until the Carnivons were out of the picture. For example, if there was a rule that Kzinti and Lyran ships may not occupy the same hexes (so as to avoid a pre-emptive lack of discipline on the part of the ships' crews), that might spark a scramble for Carnivon territory, or perhaps for position in anticipation of the Kzinti-Lyran war to follow. At least, until both sets of felines were obliged to deal with a full-scale Klingon intervention.

One potential issue there might be in how to cover the Lyrans' Klingon borders. In the Altered Alliances scenario, the Enemy's Blood Fleet became the Foremost Fleet - but this only worked because the Hydrans were, themselves, aligned with the Lyrans against the Klingons and Kzintis. One would have to either borrow from other Lyran fleets to create a new Foremost Fleet, so as to permit a reduced Enemy's Blood Fleet to patrol the Hydran border; or, perhaps, to create a "five powers war" in which the Hydrans were themselves allied to, or at least had potential co-belligerent (or uneasy coalition) status with, the Lyrans.

In short, perhaps there might be a way to have the Kzintis and Lyrans fight concurrent wars with the Carnivons and/or Klingons, in a way which kept the two empires on suitably unfriendly terms with one another yet which enabled two players (or two sets of players) to run a scenario which kept them, and the Carnivons themselves, off the sidelines.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 11:45 am: Edit

(Another) note for future consideration:

As with the Gorns and Seltorians, the Paravian ships in SFB Module C6 tend to have large numbers of Marine squads per ship class. For example, the heavy cruiser has 20 boarding parties as standard; the dreadnought has 30; and the battleship has no less than 40. While they do not deploy GAS shuttles as standard the way that the Gorns and Seltorians do, most of their ships have the ability to land on planets.

With this in mind, should the Paravians be given a similar kind of ground combat support rule to that provided for the Seltorians under (546.225), or do they not quite match the requirements needed for such a benefit?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, February 20, 2020 - 12:19 pm: Edit

(Yet another) note for future consideration:

As mentioned above, one potential issue for the "Mapsheet P" Paravians is the question of what, if any, role the Romulans might be able to play in any Middle Years campaigns.

However, perhaps one alternate option could be consider the Imperial Klingon Marches, as presented in Captain's Log #44. Say, if there was yet another alternate timeline: one in which the Tholians did not arrive in the Alpha Octant (and perhaps went to Draco instead), leaving the Klingons free to conquer the Romulans; and one in which Marengo Firecloud Wildfeather succeeded in convincing his peers to support Paravian colonial expansion, as shown in the first "Paravian timeline" in SFB Module C6. Depending on how long it would take for the Klingons to "digest" Romulan space and to firmly establish the IKM, the broader reverberations from this conquest on the region would have led to the emergence of the "Mapsheet P" borders by the early-to-mid-Y120s. At which point the IKM would find itself using a coalition with the Paravians as a means to keep the Gorns and ISC at bay, or at least off-balance.

This would allow the material provided for the "at-home" Klingon Empire in the Four Powers War scenario to be used as a reference point for a Middle Years IKM order of battle, while giving the Imperial Viceroy on Romulus a new set of challenges and opportunities to deal with.

To clarify, this is not intended to be offered instead of scenarios featuring the Romulans themselves - but rather, to allow for what could make for an interesting set of "altered alliances" without the need to draw up a brand new mapsheet.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 01:20 pm: Edit

With the recent upload of the Tactical Operations PDF, there are a number of items which might, one day, be of relevance here.

In lieu of formal counters for the Gorn DNE, CA, "CC-", and/or "CL-" on a future F&E countersheet, the stand-in rules in (631.31) could work just as well for any Middle Years campaigns involving the "Mapsheet P" Paravians.

Further, the WYN Cluster rules published under (634.0) could be used in two ways: firstly, to enable the on-map "Carnivon Empire" to consider launching an incursion of their own into the WYN Cluster; and secondly, to provide a basis for developing the "Cluster Carnivons" as a viable faction.

Perhaps one (or more) of these ideas could be pursued in future issues of Captain's Log?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, May 09, 2024 - 05:59 pm: Edit

While reading over a topic elsewhere on the BBS, I was minded of the rules in Planetary Operations, as regards the tug rescue mission - and, by extension, what (if any) effect this might have on the Paravian BBR and DNR.

According to (537.22), a tug can rescue a unit of Size 3C or smaller; while an LTT can rescue a unit of Size 4.

It is possible for either a tug or LTT to attempt to rescue a unit of a larger "size step". However, the risk to the tug or LTT is heightened as the number of "size steps" required increases.

While the preview rules in CL48 do not address this directly, I might wonder if it would make sense for the DNR to be able to automatically rescue a ship of "size step" 3A or smaller; and for the BBR to be able to automatically rescue a ship of "size step" 2B or smaller. But, as with the Tug and LTT, any attempt to rescue ships larger than this would add to the die roll required.

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The question would be when, or even if, the "lost empire" Paravians would want to use this function.

Since the ship set to this mission cannot carry pods while doing so, this would cut against the main use of the DNR or BBR on long-distance raiding missions (in timelines where the Paravians serve as "off-map" raiders), as it would need to drop its pods somewhere prior to being used for this purpose.

While for "Mapsheet P" Paravians, the onus by the onset of the General War might be to convert any remaining Raid Motherships into combat, carrier, or other such variants.

For wars fought on "Mapsheet P" during the Middle Years, however, it's worth noting that the DNR has a year in service date of Y132. This is much earlier than the average for "early" Alpha Octant dreadnoughts, such as the Klingon C6 or Gorn DNE. And there is no combat variant "DNE" for the Paravians to convert it into at any rate.

So, in any "four-power wars" to be fought in and around Circle Trigon during that time period, one could perhaps consider making use of a DNR to more reliably rescue certain larger ships - such as, say, a command cruiser - as part of its role in supporting a Paravian (or allied Romulan/Paravian) battle force?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, June 13, 2024 - 04:54 pm: Edit

With a fresh set of Middle Years Gorn counters being added to "Countersheet Sierra" for use in F&E Strategic Operations, there is (or rather, is about to be) the prospect of one day drawing up a playtest "four-power war" scenario for "Mapsheet P" - or, perhaps, for covering a more limited Middle Years border war between the Gorns and the Paravians - is that much more viable to consider.

In which case, I find it interesting to consider how each class of warship on one side lines up in contrast to that on the other.

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On the one hand, the current Paravian SIT listings give the advantage in Middle Years Size Class 4 ships to that empire. The uncrippled Paravian destroyer has a higher attack factor than, yet the same defence factor as, the uncrippled Gorn "DD-". Meanwhile, the uncrippled Paravian FF is ahead in both offensive and defensive terms, compared to the uncrippled Gorn FF.

Things are quite different for Size Class 3 comparisons, however. The Gorn CA and "CL-" each have the same uncrippled attack factors as the Paravian CA and CL respectively, but better defensive factors. While the Gorn "CC-" has a split between its uncrippled attack and defence factors, whereas the Paravian CC has an even uncrippled combat factor.

The Gorn DNE (which has a counter in F&E Tactical Operations, as listed here) and the Paravian DNR are not direct competitors. For one thing, the DNE enters service much later than the DNR. For another, the DNR is intended to serve mostly as a support ship, not as a fleet flagship.

Although, from Y150 onward, it is possible to give the DNR two battle pods; this would bring it closer to the DNE's uncrippled combat capacity, should the Paravians be pressed into using this hull in such a manner.

So, it would appear that the Middle Years Paravians need to leverage the use of their more capable frigates and destroyers as best they can, while trying to deal with the defensive advantages their Middle Years Gorn counterparts have in larger size classes.

All of which might makes things that much more interesting, should a playtest Middle Years border war scenario be drawn up someday...

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, March 08, 2025 - 03:29 pm: Edit

A note for future consideration:

As noted in the R-section data for both the Lyran Star Empire and for the Lyran Democratic Republic in SFB Module C1 and Module C3 respectively, the "feudal" nature of the Lyran fleet means that each province (be it a County, a Duchy, the Royal domain, or a certain breakaway Republic) maintains its own portion of the overall fleet.

However, there is a difference between forces maintained by a given Count or Duke - or, in the case of the LDR, "inherited" by the interim Democratic Dark Star County - and those "Royal" forces operated by Marshals and Barons, which owe direct fealty to the King-Emperor himself.

This is reflected in the Y168 Order of Battle, as shown here. While the Red Claw fleet has a CC (for the Duke), 4 CAs (for the Counts), 5 CLs, 5 DDs, and 5 FFs (from all five provinces), the Enemy's Blood fleet has one fewer CA, CL, DD, and FF than this - since the "missing" ships are, of course, serving as part of the LDR Navy. This is also reflected in the Y157 Order of Battle in the Four Powers War scenario from Fighter Operations.

However, one element which is "missing" in all of this is a fleet for the Foremost Duchy. Rather, Foremost's ships have been dispersed across the "active" border fleets - at least until Y186, when a distinct Foremost Fleet appears in the Lyran OOB from ISC War. (There is a Foremost Fleet instead of an Enemy's Blood fleet in the Altered Alliances scenario from Captain's Log #38, since those Lyrans need to fight at the Klingon border rather than the Hydran one.)

In any case, the number of ships of certain classes - in peacetime, at least - is defined by the number of provinces (both on- and off-map) within the Lyran Empire, as well as to which Lyran noble said ships owe their fealty politically-speaking.

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But, in the case of the Lyrans from the "Carnivon Empire" timeline previewed in Captain's Log #51, this dynamic might require further adjustment, so as to account for the Empire's somewhat reduced circumstances.

For comparison's sake, the "historical" Empire had 20 provinces (down from 21, with the independence of the LDR), with four of these being "off-map". Excluding the Royal-Imperial province and the four Duchies, that leaves 15 Counties (11 on-map and 4 off-map) - each, ostensibly, with a CA, a CL, a DD, an FF, and other assorted units (such as POLs) to contribute to the Empire as and when required.

However, on "Mapsheet C1" from CL51, the Empire now has only 12 on-map provinces. If Far Stars still has 4 "off-map" provinces, that leaves a total of 16.

The changes go beyond this, however.

In the historical timeline, the starbases are in the provinces held by the Dukes, as befitting their elevated status in the Empire relative to the Counts. However, the "northern" Lyran starbase on "Mapsheet C1" is not in Red Claw (province 0404); rather, it is in Apex (province 0306) - which, under (6HW.41), is in the northern fleet's deployment area. So, technically, might it be the "Apex Duchy", instead of the "Red Claw Duchy" - thus cutting into the number of provinces aligned with the Foremost Duke in the process?

Other duchies might be affected, also. For example, since Blood Star County (the only "on-map" province historically aligned with Far Stars) does not exist here, Far Stars might only have whatever "off-map" holdings it is permitted to have - making it more directly akin to the Kzinti Barony. (Something best not said in the company of either the Kzinti Baron nor the Lyran Far Stars Duke, of course...)

Unless Black Claw County (province 0107) is transferred to Far Stars - thus cutting down yet further on the number of provinces in the Foremost area?

Indeed, Enemy's Blood might find itself being cut down to size, even after taking the loss of the LDR into account. In particular, the fate of White Stripe County (province 0109) might be a particular point of contention - and, perhaps, the focus of a civil war or few?

Overall, one could be looking at a very different feudal landscape across the Lyran Empire. While the Homeworld province would remain as-is, each of the other provinces would likely have fewer provinces to go around - and, in the case of the "northern" fleet, might have an entirely different set of Dukes (from Apex, rather than from Red Claw).

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So what, if anything, would this matter in F&E terms?

Well, there might be two sides of the coin here.

On the one hand, those "active" fleets drawing from the local "feudal" forces might have fewer ships to muster.

For example: if "Apex Duchy" only has four provinces, that means 1 CC, 3 CAs, 4 CLs, 4 DDs, and 4 FFs available locally.

if Enemy's Blood gets to keep all four of its historical provinces (again, not counting the LDR), they'd be in a better situation. But, if they don't (as in, if they lose White Stripe County), the number of "local" ships in their OOB listings might be slimmed down accordingly.

It also means that, in scenarios where the Lyrans are still allied to the Klingons, there would be much fewer ships from the Foremost Duchy to spare - or, indeed, from Far Stars, were they to only be given their "off-map" provinces.

But on the other hand, there is the matter of those "Royal" ships, being flown by Marshals and Barons. Yet even the Royal-Imperial province only has so many EPs to spend; even if the onus is more on the King-Emperor to deploy his own forces to the front lines, he still has to find ways to pay for them...

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In short, beyond the changes listed in the preview scenario from Captain's Log #51, I'd argue that, should there be an opportunity to bring this product to formal publication at some later date, there'd likely need to be more significant re-structuring of the Y157, Y168, and/or Y186 orders of battle to be used by the Lyrans on "Mapsheet C1" - so as to account for the Empire's reduced circumstances, as well as the revised set of feudal structures, triggered by the lasting presence of an "on-map" Carnivon empire.

Which, of course, might make things that much more interesting - not least in "altered alliance" scenarios in which the Lyrans find themselves with a need to deploy an "active" Foremost Fleet once again...