On January 31, 2013 FEDS (Chuck Strong) ruled that non-Tholian ships that are destroyed while in the web are not entitled to a depot roll.

I propose a slight modification to this procedure. Specifically, the non-Tholian player may, before rolling for depot, elect to pull a "destroyed" ship from the Web using the normal procedures for pulling crippled ships from the web. In other words, a ship not in the web may, intead of pulling one eligible cripple from the web, "pull" one destroyed ship from the web. Such a ship is still considered destroyed, but the non-Tholian player is then entitled to a normal depot roll. This procedure provides no other benefits; only a depot roll which is otherwise not available to the non-Tholian player. Salvage is treated normally.

This procedure follows the normal SoP:

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Quote:

5-6F: Surviving towing ships pull crippled units from web (512.32).
5-6G: Pinwheels may be dissolved (322.54).
5-6H: Assigned tugs attempt to rescue ships (537.2).
.........
5-6X7: Determine if any eligible ship casualties can enter Depot
Level Repair (DLR) system (424.33). Calculate and
record salvage for destroyed units (439.1).

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By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 07:32 am: Edit

One word, No!

Attacking the Tholians is dangerous endevour under any circumstance. Not letting ships destroyed in the web roll for depot makes sense as attacking the Tholians usually results in a lot of dead enemy ships. The price for attacking the Tholians, who want to be left alone, should be higher than attacking any of the other empires.

There are already rules in place to provide an attacking force a way of saving their ships. They are in (512.3). If the attacker risks more ships in the web to get a higher compot against a Tholian fleet, then the cost of doing battle should be higher as stated in (512.32).

The reward of capturing Tholian space is the 3 Klingon planets and a more secure supply route to the Romulans for KR spare parts.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 12:29 pm: Edit

Eric, see, you're not the only one to have proposals shot down (or shot at) - and this one is modest! =)

Thomas, I disagree that it's a bad rule, as I've played Tholian assaults two or three times now with the *normal* depot rules, and no real imbalance seemed to come out of it (as I understood the rules at the time). This proposal is a "middle ground" in view of the ruling, and I think makes sense in terms of how Tholian assaults proceed. Also, I think the cost of doing battle *is* already higher, as the web rules encourage self killing.

However, I do acknowledge that the ruling is reasonable.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 01:42 pm: Edit

Unless directed otherwise by ADB I cannot support this proposal.

Pulling a crippled ship from a web is one thing but pulling a DESTROYED ship from the web AND the depot rules is an entirely different matter.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 03:31 pm: Edit

With both FEDS and one of the staff opposed to this idea, I withdraw the proposal.

Jean, please delete at your leisure.

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Friday, March 01, 2013 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Here's a proposal along this concept. Do not allow an empire attacking the Tholians to roll for Depot Repair until the end of the battle. If the attacker wins, he gets his depot rolls then, to represent ships that barely survived as normal. If the Tholian wins, he gets to roll depot on all of the attacker's cassualties to see if he can salvage any of the hulls for more than just spare cash (and gets the marine/Prime bonus since he has time and manpower now). Nobody else is desperate enough to try to salvage a hull so badly damaged, but the Tholians are.

Of course, as is already the case when fighting at a webbed location, the winner gets the salvage.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Friday, March 01, 2013 - 03:07 pm: Edit

Daniel; The WYN are also this desperate.

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Friday, March 01, 2013 - 11:38 pm: Edit

True, but they don't have web to hold the salvage in place for them.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 12:01 am: Edit

No, just a radiation shell of death.

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 12:15 am: Edit

Who wants to work on a radioactive floating hulk? And who'd going to go salvage all that junk before it falls out of orbit on something?

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 09:22 am: Edit

I was thinking of it more as a case of the crews of units that would normally be salvage/depot level type repairs deciding to surrender, rather than dieing on the way out.

Although the R-section description on some units describe units that come through the radiation shell being decontaminated and used. Off the top of my head the two Andro units, and the Jindarian CL.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, March 03, 2013 - 04:25 pm: Edit

Anything which reduces the 'Coalition pain' of taken Tholia, I think is not a good idea - unless there was an equal increase in the ability of Tholia to not be captured.

Would the pull dead ships proposal be equal to say no SAF's being used?

(SAF's look like they slipped through the rules - so correcting this may actually be done anyway - but keeping a 'balanced' view, might help it be more palatable?)