Archive through April 09, 2013

Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E COMPUTER PROJECTS: F&E Cyberboard Development: Archive through April 09, 2013
By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Saturday, February 09, 2013 - 11:09 pm: Edit

LOL. Nah I quick responded this morning but haven't looked at it yet as I have been gone all day enjoying the wonderful 60 degree winter day and the Wine/Chocolate walk in town. Heh, with a gardener and this kind of weather instead of real winter I guess I can't/won't complain about CA cost of living. Eventually though I will buy a house again and have to cut my own grass...oh wait, I have a couple of pre-teens.

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Monday, February 11, 2013 - 11:32 pm: Edit

Would it help if I made any of the counters? I kinda suck with the pretty colored ship graphics and the nifty crippled ones.

But if you made 1 per hull (most are already done), I can go through and put the little numbers in them and send you PNGs you can copy/paste right into the cyberboard designer.

Anyway, if I can help it'll make my web based SIT program look a lot better without all the "missing" annotations :)

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 10:41 am: Edit

The images import and export as .gtl files. I think .png will work also. Not sure.

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 01:00 pm: Edit

You can open the image in mspaint, the paste into the cyberboard designer quite easily when adding a new counter. If that is ok and you'd like I'll knock out some PNGs of missing units that already have their hulls drawn, otherwise its a lot more work to deal with GTL files from my end.

I should get CL46 today, and since I think it has all the LDR stuff I can update those first.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 04:07 pm: Edit

Well the only thing is with CB the file can only be updated by one person at a time. It is not designed to be altered as more than one version at a time. I could send you the file as I have it now (I have been working pretty steady on it the past 2-3 weeks now that I have settled in our new location). In order to do that though I would have to stop work and wait for you to finish what you would do to it. Might be better to have you make a list of items by SIT and have me knock them out.

I should say that I did this myself for the first few years and it took an incredible amount of time. There were many errors, ommissions, and oversights. I have since done as much as possible to accept help wherever and whenever I can get it. Many people have spent time looking at the box for errors. As I have said in the past, I can only look at this through my own eyes. Almost as many have created scenarios for it after it each release to the BBS. For this I offer my thanks to all.

In the latest update (which is forthcoming) I have done quite a bit. As for "the list" you could create for me we need to first begin with official changes made to the SIT in 2012 (compare them to 2010 SIT as there are still a couple of issues) and then add in the CLog stuff.

What I have done in some cases (such as for the 4PW & ISCWar scenarios), I have added counters that are official in scenarios but not on the SIT. For Early Beginnings I have extrapolated some data and created some new counters so to provide Tim/John some playtest materials per their request (Tech Convoys, Monsters, Markers they needed, etc).

As for G3 stuff unless you can find some official factors I am not really interested in guessing at ships or costs. The CB file is already bumping the limit for the number of counters and so it is a give and take right now to add counters to the trays. IOW if the players have not called for an unpublished ship or unit or label I don't tend to eliminate something already in the box to fit them in. Most of the CL28 items (even though they are in a CL) are an example.

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 04:40 pm: Edit

I have no desire to do anything in cyberboard, my whole reason for getting it more complete is so I can extract the graphics for a potential F&E specific copy of cyberboard.

I have all the latest data from every PDF online now, in an easily viewable format. Since my SITs show the counter beside the data, its easy to go through the list and verify stuff is right. It could help with QA when your close to a release.

What I really wanted to see was you doing the hulls, in your pretty format, as well as the damaged hulls for races that don't have them yet. I want these 2 things more than anything else, and luckily there are usally only a dozen or so hulls per race, so not all counters need updating.

If all of those were done, I'd go through and start tinkering with a little program that would progmatically create all 3000+ counters within a few minutes, with no errors and no time spent in MS Paint. There may be a few that don't work quite right, like the unbreakable groups or some unit with too many special abilities, but I'm betting 99% of the counters in the game I can make in a few minutes.

I haven't looked at the scenarios at all, though I think I did start making the ISC one from ISC war and ran into some shortages, and only did the ISC, that really isn't my strong suite right now.

If you want to send me your latest, assuming you've done a lot of counter updates, that'd be awesome. I can go through and refresh my online SIT, then I'll start drawing PNGs that are missing or update any I find broken and just send you a PNG, to do with as you please.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 04:36 am: Edit

The Pacification Scenario ran into numerous shortages, as I went through it to put all the units into their respective fleet assignments. The first one has been noted above by me in that we ran out of Federation DWAs just in the setup. Forget about building anymore. Another units that resulted in shortages were the ISC DD. A couple of other issues where discovered at the same time.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 12:42 pm: Edit

Whether we like it or not, EB, General War, ISC and likely Andro eras may need their own boxes due to their counter limits.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 02:34 pm: Edit

Alan, it is quite possible, but unlikely, that you would run out of the Federation DWA's in the General War. That has nothing to do with the EB stuff. There is an absolute limit on the number of counters that can be put into the various trays that we have.
In the 2011 gamebox we took out a number of extra counters that aren't needed because of absolute limits by the rules. We moved Reserves to be Markers instead of counters. Anything else we could think of to give us more space for ships to be used as counters.

Some things take more space, For Tugs and Pods, we created Tug missions with pods, including mixed mission tugs to use up the existing pod mix. So we actually have some extra tug counters. As everyone uses tugs differently we did that to provide everyone with their tug/pod combinations across all empires. In the process we only created enough mixed mission pods of a give mission to use up all the pods available for that combination, e.g. Fed BTV, there are 6 BTV Tug Mission Counters. 3 for the GW, and 3 more for the EB gang, because of their rules.

If we have to eliminate things it will be Captain's Log ships that are removed first to provide space for additional ships required for scenarios published in F&E Products first, the scenarios that use General War, and ISC War units first.

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 04:42 pm: Edit

What *is* that absolute limit?

If the Cyberboard box is already nearly there, and surely AW will add at *least* 200 more, and who knows how many for minor empires/civil wars, perhaps it is just a matter of time before CB just can't do it anymore?

I initially liked the tug+pod counters, but after runing out a few times, and needing to also track how many pods I could have for limits, it because more of a pain and in the future I'll just use a tug and pod counter. Same with LTT's though probably not HDW's as they have no limits on most of their types (but POG/HOG/FOP/COG should be separate I think).

Another thought is to have a counter, kinda like a "3FF" or "6D5" counter, but instead of the # of units on the counter, have a little white box. That way these could be tracked as one big group, you could have 40 F5s in a single counter, just add the ship counts as a description for the counter.

I could knock out a complete replacement for cyberboard, at least for F&E purposes, in a full week of coding (no wife, no illness, no work, no nutin but a computer, powdered donuts, and mountain dew), and of course the proper motivation and support. In real life that is maybe a month, two at most, but again, I gotta stay focused and motivated which means not feeling like I'm the only one who cares if it is ever finished. (Note: I refuse to use java, as I think its horrible in every way, so whatever I write would be windows based)

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Thursday, February 14, 2013 - 12:14 pm: Edit

The limit has not been calculated and I don't think the CB guy Dale Larson knows the number. The number might not be a hard number but a limit on memory within the program. Map Markers do not affect the limit but Map Marker limitations are they have one side at a time and that they cannot be placed into Counter (Fleet) trays.

Bases/PDUs were the easy thing to place here because they are not fleet elements in the game and can be added to the map/battle boards as needed. I have 18 Map Marker categories in the new version coming.

I have a spreadsheet I was following to keep track of what I was putting in each tray but it has fallen into the cracks and has not been updated this round. I will attempt to update it because it is a great numerical map to the contents of the F&E game box.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Monday, February 18, 2013 - 02:14 pm: Edit

For those waiting for the new CB Gamebox...

Work continues.
I have added new trays; new fleet markers for RESVs. These will reflect an "Origins format" in that you will be able to place fleets into the RESV tray rather than just dropping a marker on a fleet. Thank Dan K and the EB guys for this.

I have reorganized the battle boards per Teds suggestion and created 12 double battle boards and markers for using them. The last two double boards are ISC version.

I have included 4 single battle boards: 2 normal and 2 ISC version.

I also worked on the maps and made the fixes put forth there as well. There is a new map also.

EB got a new hex tile for setting up offmap zones.
Some Fed ships got a new font and the CA, CX style silhouettes were updated.

Warren and I are checking the SIT updates and I am updating information found in the CLs.
Eric is the new guy helping in this area as well...thank you.

Not sure when but things are moving forward, I will let you know.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Monday, February 18, 2013 - 02:16 pm: Edit

So far Alan I have been able to make the GBX work. There may come a day where I will need to split them. The future release of Civil Wars might be that day, we shall see.

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Friday, March 01, 2013 - 01:17 pm: Edit

Since many of the CW units will already have silhouettes, just new colors, if ya'll want I can create all the new counters in seconds, and all ya'll would have to do is copy/paste them, making it pretty easy to implement.

By Bill Steele (Bill83501) on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 09:41 pm: Edit

I am trying to figure out how to design a senario in CB design, is there a tutorial on how to do this anywhere? thanks in advance


By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 09:24 am: Edit

Actually use the CB Player program and do a 'new' 'scenario' and select the gamebox it needs to come from. Then when you have the gamebox and are ready to start do a and give it a name, then start building it and saving often as you build it.

Sorry, about the edit, some of the formatting I used didn't show right.

By Bill Steele (Bill83501) on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 09:36 am: Edit

thanks, I will try and start from there, thanks again

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Friday, April 05, 2013 - 10:43 pm: Edit

I sent out some emails which included the new box for reviews. Requests have been made for "Anything Else?"

Consider this a public request for "anything else"? (I do understand you have not seen what I have done already).

Would the usual suspects please notify me (here or by email) if you would like the advanced copy in order to recreate scenarios.

Thanks to all of you.

By Pete DiMitri (Petercool) on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 07:56 am: Edit

Hi Lawrence,

As I mentioned in the other thread, the Lyrans don't seem to have enough Auxiliary carriers.

Also, any chance we can get a raid marker?

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 03:20 pm: Edit

Raid markers, sure...coming right up!
EDIT: You now have them in two colors.

All Auxes should be at their official ADB limits in this next update.

Does anyone know if there were some limit changes made I should know about? If not I will go with the current OOB/Annex levels.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 03:50 pm: Edit

Request for two other markers

"Long Term Captured"


By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 06:13 pm: Edit

Ted, the colored "C" markers can be used for Long Term Captured with a Text Note.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 12:00 am: Edit

I already have the Annexed in there per your previous request. LTC I will check that.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 10:38 am: Edit

Thomas, I have been doing that. I just like seeing it at a glance. It's not necessary, just gravy.

Lawrence, THANKS.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 12:01 pm: Edit

The "D" and "C" markers were originally intended for (Economic) Captured and Disrupted. The "D" with the "R" in/on it was to represent Disrupted by Raid. I expanded the C & D markers in the past to have more color options that players could see better on the map and use to possibly represent different things.

In this update I am phasing the expanded colors of the C & D out as they may have surpassed their usefulness. Also this update I have mashed together a "C" in a circle format with the colors I used for EB to represent the Colony Point used in that scenario.

Players develop their own play style and I really need to work on a tutorial for the CB (I have one archived that I started a while back). The intent with the tutorial is to guide players in using the CB so that when two (or more) players begin a game they each have a basic working knowledge of what the other should know about playing within the format presented.

I know my own use of the CB is a mish-mash of how others used it. I learn something about it (or at least how others are using it) each time I play a game with it. I have taught others and others have taught me. This, of course, has influenced what goes into the .gbx.

I think for the next big update (not this one) I will reformat the capital system charts I have created to be less like "those of ole '86" and more like the charts we use at Origins/locally here in FTF games.

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