What I'm working on is a web based app, which can be viewed irrespective of OS. It's mostly for my own personal use, but if I get it to a point where it might be valuable to others, I'll send it off to SVC and let him decide...
I only mentioned Access because that's what I'm using to design stuff. Obviously, I'll port it to javascript/html etc.

By Michael Parker (Protagoras) on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 10:28 pm: Edit

I will say I think ANY requirement to have the end user run a database application is untenable. Spreadsheets are nice about playing cross platform.. as others have pointed out Databases not so much.

Now that doesn't mean we cannot use a Database that can create a csv file for us to use with a spreadsheet, but that becomes a more top level issue.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 12:21 am: Edit

Personal use is fine but my intent is to have ONE standardized format that looks and works the same way -- be it hardcopy or block 5 electronic. The intent is that most of us work off the standard format that ADB can publish or post online and that new players will find transitioning from paper to electronic seamless and familiar.

Just know that I will not endorse X different formats from Y different sources. So if there are those who want to develop their own sheet please knock yourself out but this topic is for the standardized format.

Chuck

By Chris Upson (Misanthropope) on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 12:58 pm: Edit

is this ahead of fixing special raids in the chuck queue? i for one would rather do my econ by etching numerals in my own blood into a stone tablet, than continue using drone raids as written.

By Chris Upson (Misanthropope) on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 01:00 pm: Edit

PS: in triplicate. and getting audited on spring turns.

nothing worse than a half-@$$ job of hyperbole.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 08:49 am: Edit

MP's current Excel sheet is somewhere between Block 2 and Block 4 of Chuck's suggest progression.

The one thing it can't correct and will always be changing from turn to turn is the change of a planet's or province's status for a given empire. This is a game mechanic and something that can't be automated to follow a game. The FEOL guys might be able to do it for FEOL only. But any other form of the game will always be subject to "Human" input and subject to "Human" error.

Note "Human" includes those of you who are Klingon, Gorn, or any other empire.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 07:56 am: Edit

MP, drop me an email. I got a couple of questions for you on the econ form.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 02:54 pm: Edit

I wrote:

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Quote:

The one thing it can't correct and will always be changing from turn to turn is the change of a planet's or province's status for a given empire. This is a game mechanic and something that can't be automated to follow a game. The FEOL guys might be able to do it for FEOL only. But any other form of the game will always be subject to "Human" input and subject to "Human" error.

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By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 11:03 pm: Edit

I have a SQL server just sitting on the web, not doing so much, and it is well within my skills to do a project like this.

However....

My time is short these days, and I fear my F&E experience is minimal. If somebody went and made a spreadsheet, or even scanned something they wrote on paper, that was totally complete, I could create a website that could do this, track it, etc. I could have it done within a day or two.

I would also need SVC or somebody official to say it is ok to do something like this, since I know SFG is very sensitive on computer products.

I could even track ownership of all provinces, do calculation for next turn's economy, and all sorts of other things pretty easily, though all of those would add a week or two to the dev time.

Let me know, and since I don't come here to often, you can email me at bad_syntax @ yahoo.com.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 11:24 am: Edit

Send an email to Mike Parker - he produced an oustanding spreadsheet with all kinds of functionality based on a spreadsheet produced by Chuck Strong. However, it does need some updating.

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 02:46 pm: Edit

I took a look and replied to your email Ted. Basically I can convert that to a website in a few hours, with logins, multiple game/race/turn support.

Can Chuck Strong or SVC chime in on how they feel about this? I can quite easily make a website that everything I think people want, but don't want to make anybody mad over there.

I can also add a lot of automated functionality (survey ship rolls, a map to select provinces/planet status, or even a combat resolution table, the sky is the limit) but again would need some confirmation that it is ok.

And the whole shiplist thing, I would LOVE to have what is basically the master ship lists within something like this. Click a fed CA, it then allows you to make a CAD/CC/DN or whatever based on the current turn year. This kinda stuff is pretty easy, though I would need to input all the master ship data into the database as well (I've already done this once a while back for my own needs). But I know that SVC doesn't want those suckers being digital, and that pretty much nips any ship data from being within the site.

I would probably code it all for Chrome, as its both mac/PC and it runs faster (on PC at least), but I can't say it'll work in any other browser, based on my own experience I'd say unlikely, every browser is unique, and none of them have any common "standards".

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Unless overruled by ADB I have no problem with you moving ahead with such a project, but send a note to ADB and ask them to be sure. In my book, anything that increases playability and decreases bookkeeping effort helps speed the game and draws more players. I want to maximize my time to move and fire at ships, not calculate funding and crosscheck data tables.

BTW, you only really need some extracted data from the SITs:
Designations, Factors, CRs, YIS, conv/build costs, salvage.

I wouldn't get to far ahead with bells and whistles; focus on functionality of the spreadsheet, survey rolls, production schedule, allowable ship production, salvage and repair. The most difficult thing will be including proper advance deficit spending formulas. An interactive map with the sheet can come later -- let's take a building block approach first...

Cheers,
Chuck

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 07:29 pm: Edit

One thing I'd hope it can do is be usable regardless of whether you are playing the basic game, or some addons, or all the addons.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 05:51 pm: Edit

Don't go to crazy over making it work for just the General War scenario. It will have to work for that as well as for Gathering Winds (625.0), Driving Winds (624.0), and a host of the General War variants such as Demon in the East or The Klingon Eastern Marches.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 06:28 pm: Edit

Also forgot that production schedules can change with the use of Minor Ship Yards.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 07:14 pm: Edit

Turtle:

How does my form not work with these existing scenarios?

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 07:35 pm: Edit

Chuck, your form works fine. What doesn't work is the programming.

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 02:36 am: Edit

Anything I would write wouldn't be scenario dependent, and would be versatile enough to easily update for an Early Years or Omega F&E campaign without more than some textual changes. I'll try to not hard-code anything at all.

I'll have to have enough ship data to allow the user to make an educated decision, restricted when necessary by rules (like max in service, or max/year, etc), on productions and conversions.

It'll be easy to select the products you want to play with, and perhaps even certain chunks of rules or options, so you can pick/choose whichever rules and/or modules you want to play with.

Just need to get some official word on this before I move forward, as this would be a website version of the economy sheet thingy and could be frowned upon.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 11:29 am: Edit

Keep the focus on the General Way era and related scenarios as Early Years F&E is way off and there is little interest in doing anything F&E Omega by a majority of the player base.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Not intending to be Gary Carny here.

IF Omega/Early Years/LMC F&E is produced wouldn't it be a good thing to plan into the base sheet now, instead of trying to fix it later? Besides might Omega and LMC F&E increase the player base and be a good thing?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Nothing from ADB for F&E Omega/LMC even exists to know what to include on their economic forms. So short of ADB directing otherwise, we are not going to put any effort into these lines at this time because we have higher priority projects for the greater F&E community of known and likely players.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 02:50 pm: Edit

shameless plug for updated products and warbook.

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 03:36 pm: Edit

I'm just saying anything I write will be versatile enough to handle any new products, or even products not F&E related as it'll be extremely dynamic and highly configurable.

Lets face it, an economy sheet is really just a bunch of blanks you plug in numbers, sometimes those numbers look at your previous turn, other times items on the map, as long as I keep that in mind, the end system will not be specific to any game, era, scenario, etc.

Still gotta see if I'm going to get a C&D letter the day I launch it though

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 03:45 pm: Edit

Eric, can you make it so that a player can put stuff in for 2 - 5 turns ahead for things like minor ship yard construction, colony development, or main shipyard replacement and keep that hidden from other players in a game until the turn is actually begun before others in the game can see it? It sometimes help me to put things in the form in advance so that I don't forget them. Also Engineers affect SIDS repair costs on bases. See the Q&A (541.34) A. This is in addition to things like Colongy Development, and Minor Ship Yard Construction which are well documented.

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 05:16 pm: Edit

Sure, it would even be possible to download a "game", where all the sheets are "filled out" already, then simply change whatever you want each tun.

As soon as all players say "end turn", that turn's data would become read-only, but there would be no limits to the amount of future turns you could fill out, though if you don't have as much money as you thought you were going to, you may have to make a lot of changes to stay within your new budget.

Are other players allowed to see your sheet now?

If they are, or aren't, I can make that work easy enough. I could even have a read-only referee account that can see everything, just not make any changes.

Basically there wouldn't be very much I couldn't do, if SVC doesn't mind that I create a tool such as this.

This could eventually grow into a tool to track an F&E game online, much like cyberboard or VASSAL, though that'll be a ways down the road and surely not considered much initially when trying to get *something* working.