Archive through January 13, 2014
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E PRODUCTS:
F&E Future Products (Far Term):
F&E Andro War:
Archive through January 13, 2014
Mike Curtis' background question on moving Satellite bases and the subsequent references to that found in SFB (R10.11), (R10.28), (R10.29), and (R10.30), would seem to suggest that if a base survives the combat phase it could subsequently be moved and the search process restarted.
What I am looking for is to see if the Andros can move a SAT base around after it has been placed. No combat necessary.
I don't see any reason for it not to be able to be moved regardless of combat or not.
However, I wouldn't see a need to move it until combat takes place at the base in question.
More than likely once a SAT base is attached to a COR, it cannot be detached. This does raise the question of how to convert from an Andromedan BS to BATS.
Perhaps once a COR has been established, the Positional Stabilizer cannot be switched off?
I think a lot has changed since the initial conversations about Andro War. For example, out of 16 satellite ship designs 10 of them have displacement devices and are capable of independent operations. We also have a lot more hull types, and I am not even considering C3A in those numbers.
So, I went through all the data I could find, and with a *very* few contradictions from published materials. I had to fill in the blanks sometimes, but I think I am pretty close to a workable product, though I'm 99.99% sure nobody will use it, I really hate having games that are "incomplete" and thus, am trying to fix it as is my idiom.
The Andro's may not have a significant impact during the general war, but they have a lot of pretty capable ships in the rear areas that should be keeping races defending everything and hopefully prevent the 100+ ship fleets from just walking around taking out whatever they want. Doing that simply allows the Andros to take all the colonies/systems in your rear areas!
So here is what I did (in a very brief, poorly worded, detail missing way to avoid putting you to sleep, and a lot I've done missing to keep it "short"):
- Took the LMC map as published in C5, put it in Cyberboard, and added planets based on the data in the C5 forum on here. C5 races get a lot less money for their planets than Alpha Quadrant. Majors are 2, Minors are 1, 3 hex provinces are 1, and each unoccupied fringe hex is .1. This gives the whole C5 cloud about the same EP as the Klingons. The Chomak have 1 major planet, not a dyson sphere. I created 6 bases per major race, 6 for the Maghadim, and 4 others scattered about. I randomly scattered the planets, and the Maghadim core is really full (every hex has 1+ planet), and each hex is also a province.
- Since you really just can't have the Andromedans without the LMC, I ended up having to create it, AND all the races there. I wrote some algorithms to assign attack/defense values. The Attack is roughly the average alpha strike damage/turn in the best arc divided by 12, the defense is half the shields plus all the internal hits, divided by 24. The values end up being really close to what I think SVC would assign. The Baduvai CS (after the Da Refits) 8/4, the CA 7/7, the FFs about 4/2, and a DW 5/3. The Eneen CA is 7-8/4, their DD's 4-6/2-3, a MON 10-8/5-4, their FFs 4-5/2-3. Maghadim BC is 8/4, the C is 7/4, the FF 4-5. The MB's are about 14/7, the Warbases 24-18/12-9, and a Mag Starbase a whopping 34-38/17-19. Uthiki use Baduvai ships, and are kinda like the LDR in their attack is often 1 point higher than their defense. The Jumokians kinda suck, and are pretty similar to Orions.
- Based on the size of the Andromedans that could exist (based on existing numbers in R10), and the size of the fleets they could take out, I gave the Baduvai/Eneen 4 fleets each, the Maghadim 3, and 1 for the Uthiki/Jumokian/Chomak. Each fleet is around 50-60 compot and maybe 8-12 ships. I decided the Yorl Septs were purely defensive, with lots of PGBs and a base since I had no data and they were barely mentioned. The Baduvai and Eneen homeworld systems were taken with about 12 Intruders and 33 satellite ships. Remember, there are no PDUs in the LMC, just PGBs, and nothing close to a SB outside the Maghadim core (and the Andro's had Dominators when they went in there). The Andro's had a grand total of about 200 SATB by the time the General war started, however 120 of those were used to build BATS around the Maghadim core, 30 were used to build the 3 routes to the milky way, and about 51 were scattered about the LMC. By Y168, the LMC forces killed about 6 intruders and 33 satellite ships, and were all hiding in the core surrounded by BATS.
- I had NOTHING on the Chomak other than they were respected, could move around the whole cloud, and the Andromedan's didn't have an easy time with them. I took this as meaning their ships are always in supply, everywhere, they ignore all effects from displacement devices, always force a -2 EW shift on all enemies (Andro's included), all ships act as scouts, have transporter jammers and battery drainers, detect RTN's easier, and can force a retreat battle continually until they decide to stop. This makes them quite powerful, but their income is low and ships expensive. Their one fleet is still no match for a couple Dominators.
- I originally tried, very hard, to just use satellite ships as fighter factors like SVC wanted, and I just couldn't find numbers that made that make sense. They simply are far more capable than a squadron of fighters. They can stay onboard and make the mothership more durable, be teleported out at the last minute into an enemy fleet, be crippled and repaired, and some satellite ships are easily as capable as a war cruiser with independent movement. Abstracting those to fighter factors simply prevents the Andromedan's from having any chance against late war fleets. Plus, the worst part, if their satellite ships are essentially free, and their motherships arrive on a schedule, what is the point in them capturing stuff and trying to hold it?
- And onto the Andromedan ships. These were tough, and took me a LOT of iterations in excel and visual studio to determine just how they should be. I'm about 90% confident now I have it right. The problem is that power absorbers can absorb from a minimum of 10, to an average of about 18, to a maximum of about 30 damage in a SFB battle. Plus, displacement devices allow some pretty significant bonuses. However, firepower wise, their ships kinda suck. A Dominator at range 8 can't do any more damage than a Federation CC, and in fact, their ranges really suck. At range 26+ Andro's are worthless, and Feds with Photons would brutalize them. You have to kill Andro's fast, or they will haunt you. Using the same formulas I did for the C5 races, but considering each PA 18 for "shield purposes", and then adding 3 additional damage absorption per battery I came up with pretty good numbers. Now, when reading these remember you haven't gotten to their special rules yet 
. A Dominator is 18-25/9-17, a Intruder 12-15/6-11, a COQ 10-11/5-8, a PYT 7-10/4-7, CBR (recon cobra) 4-7/2-5, and SATB 10-12/5-6. Their crippled defense is much higher than usual, as Andro's are very hard to kill if you can't do it fast. I'll get to that later. Ships with displacement devices are capable of RTN movement, so their names are underlined on the counters. Hangers are denoted with a {#}, where the # is the size, and satellite ships denoted with {L}, {M}, or {S}. I had to ignore the whole reconfiguring mothership hangers for different sized ships. That way lies madness. Capital ships (and some PYT) arrive each turn at the SB in the LMC, other ships are built at the SB, and some construction BATS.
Here are very brief description of the major rules for the Andromedans.
- Andro's cannot be captured, and generate no salvage for anybody
- Andro's can capture, but salvage the ship immediately.
- Andro's traveling through the WYN or Maghadim zones take 50 damage on the first round of combat, cannot use EW, and are at 1/3rd attack. I need to detail this out more.
- Size class 2 Andro motherships generate 1-3 repair points that can be used between rounds to repair satellite ships at a cost of .5 EP/pt. Any mothership can be treated as a repair ship if loaded with repair sleds, and need not stop at any location to perform repairs.
- Any Andro with a hanger can load SATBs, and can deploy them after 1 round of combat, or by simply moving through a hex. Multiple SATB can be dropped off to form a BS or BATS, but those take a single turn to form.
- Andro operational speed is 3, and can retrograde 3 but only if ending in an RTN. They can retreat any direction regardless of enemy forces there. Andro's are always in supply.
- Motherships can only be converted to variants when crippled.
- Andro's can choose their BIR after the enemy announces theirs, as long as they arrived via the RTN. VBIR is still a surprise.
- If a mothership has hanger space available, satellite ships can get a depot roll to become crippled within the mothership instead.
- When the enemy allocates damage, they pick a single ship (one without a DD if possible) which is allocated on first. After that first ship the Andromedan can choose the damage allocation. If at any time there is double the damage of the defense factor of the ship that unit is destroyed and it removes 1:1 damage from the total.
- Psuedo Satellite Ships are placed on the line like any other, if the enemy allocates damage on it first, 8? damage is removed and damage continues.
- Energy modules add defense ratings to motherships.
- All Andro motherships can carry cargo pods, and in many cases its necessary to get EP back to the SB for production.
- MWPs are PFs, with a slightly higher defense, and half a squadron can reduce firepower by half to gain a 'G'.
- Devastator is kinda built like the B10
- Displacement devices allow transit on the RTN. Each turn a 1d6 can be rolled for each ship with a DD (2 uses on a SC 2 ship, 3 on a SB), modified by the EW shift. On a '6' the DD fails.
- Option 1: Allow itself, or a single other ship, the formation bonus
- Option 2: Auto success of pursuit
- Option 3: Auto avoiding of pursuit
- Option 4: Prevent Withdrawal before combat
- Option 5: Tactical usage. It can use its attack as mauler factors. Rolling a '1' however the enemy gets a free directed 1:1 attack against it instead.
- Ships with DD's cannot be targeted by SFGs, WCs, Maulers, or PPDs, nor are affected by Tholian Webs or ISC Echelons. There is no need to roll success for these benefits.
- If crippled, a ship must roll success for the DD to allow it to return to the RTN, otherwise it cannot move on the RTN until repaired.
- This may sound like a lot of rolls, but remember, only 2 DD equipped ships in a battle! More could have moved there operationally, but max of 2 DD's active (plus a bases) in a battleline.
And the RTN. To be brief, they are little bases placed all over the map, hidden, and can only be detected by scouts and survey ships. 3 of them on the Alpha quadrant are connected to the LMC, and if all 3 routes aren't detected with survey ships an operation like Unity would fail (like in the Darwin optional universe). Andro's moving on the RTN have unlimited movement each turn, can move operationally out from the last RTN to any target without the enemy knowing the source destination. Andros at specific RTNs can react from them. Also, hunting down the RTNs is *much* easier with your survey ships (meaning they aren't surveying anymore) and since they gotta look in a hex all by themselves, the Andros can sometiems grab the SATB and bugger off before a fleet can take it out.
- Operation Unity. Gotta detect the right RTN's to find the paths to the LMC. Each path allows an Expeditionary fleet to go along that route, fighting a battle in the Andro's and the players turns (so 2 battle "hexes" per turn). It takes 4 turns to get to the SB at the LMC. Since Andro's have such great movement, if the galactic powers only detect 2 nodes, that 3rd can be used to get a huge number of Andro's from the Milky Way back to the LMC, and easily defeat the galactic powers.
- Andro's *do* capture things, planets included (and it takes twice as long for those planets to recover, as the Andro's strip mined them). They have PDUs with MWPs and deploy them on captured systems. Territory they capture produces various EP, and these EP must be shipped back to the Desecrator using various cargo satellite ships tied to cargo motherships. This income is used for repairs and smaller item construction. They start with about 150 EP/turn from the LMC, which is fully consumed by their build schedule.
The things left, aside form all the polish and rule references are:
- Finish up the LMC map by adding capital systems. Then convert it all to PDF and cyberboard formats.
- Determine LMC race production schedules, conversions, etc.
- Do up all the counters. Computers will be great for this, but I need to draw the little pixel LMC galaxy ship silouhettes which will take some time.
- Go through the rules, page by page, and annotate what rules do not apply to the Andros, or any modifiers to use with Andros. While doing this add all the rule polish so everything makes sense to people who can't read my bad writing.
- Do up some Chomak ships in F&E only (unless CL#46 has them in it!), perhaps just a few HDW type ships that allow only a few hulls, but every role necessary.
I have a *huge* amount of other data that was simply too long to post.
And why I posted this.....
Anybody wanna do some playtest battling over the LMC? The games aren't very big, maybe 150 LMC ships vs 60 or so Andros, though it will last up to 60 turns Spring Y138 to Spring Y168. MANY of the turns would be VERY uneventful
I know it won't be official, but since ISC War was out like 5 years after it was mentioned (its ok, its out!) I just can't imagine Andro War being out before 2020, and I don't wanna wait that long
If it helps to avoid side-tracking the Andromedan side of the discussion, there is a pre-existing thread for talking about the local empires in the LMC over here.
It should be noted that Ken Burnside (with help from John Hilgers) worked on some provisional (and, at this point, wholly unofficial) ship factors for a number of the published LMC empires, as well as a provincial map showing his vision (at the time of his direct involvement in the project) of what the Cloud looks like in terms of economics.
However, there were a few issues with that map; chief of which being the Chomak. Ken had suggested giving the Community a Dyson Sphere in its capital hex, in order to provide with an economy large nough to keep the Magellanic Powers at bay, but insufficient to hold out against a determined Andromedan conquest. (For my part, I would simply suggest giving the Chomak an Alpha-style multi-system capital hex; but parsec-ages may vary in that regard.)
Although, I should note that the amount of EPs assumed to be generated by the provinces (and the major and minor planets) was still assumed to be in line with the standard levels seen out in the Alpha Octant; and even in the Core, each province was marked as being two hexes in size, and not every hex was presumed to have a planet (major or minor).
But on a wider note, it's probably not worth rushing into giving the Community any sort of write-up in F&E terms, when no published data exists for them in SFB; and while a second module set in the Cloud would be one of many potential modules I would love to see at some point, it would likely take a lot more effort to work out just who and what the Chomak are before their fleet can be developed.
However, in the case of the Chomak (or the Yrol, for that matter), neither case would need to be all that pressing. The most important theatre in the LMC would be the area covered by the Triple Pact (Baduvai-Eneen-Maghadim), since the bulk of the Andromedan invasion affected these areas directly; and there was no direct aid from the Chomak during the first wave of invasion (and relatively little collaboration in the run-up to the second).
So, if the time ever comes for the LMC to be looked at in F&E terms, the focus should really be on the "big three"; who, thanks to the detail which Module C5 goes into, can be handled well enough even in the absence of a second SFB module.
For the Andros themselves, I might argue that an operational movement value of 3 may be a tad too slow.
(If I recall correctly, 3 is the rate given for ships with non-tactical warp drive, while 4 is for W-era hulls. Apologies in advance if I've gotten those two wrong.)
Could 4 be a better value to go for? (That would allow RTN nodes to be a little further apart from each other and still remain viable; plus, since the operational speed of the LMC empires is capped to that used by the off-RTN Andros according to C5, four hexes per turn for operational movement would make campaigns out in the Cloud, either pre- or post-invasion, run a little more eventfully.)
I thought about this one quite a bit before I decided on 3. Here was my logic as I remember it.
#1. The Andro's use the RTN to get anywhere, and they move those 3 hexes out from each RTN to a target. It isn't that their speed is that much slower than GP, in fact it is probably 6. But, they use a lot of that warp on the RTN itself, and whenever they exit they simply can't go, and wouldn't if they could, that far from an RTN. Perhaps they don't carry that much fuel to leave the RTN with, or their warp consumes a lot more without an RTN (logical, since they have an RTN).
#2. An operational range of 4, vs 3, increases the amount of hexes the GP need to search for the RTN by a vast amount. I think 4 hexes is enough to not be sure of the direction the Andro came from, but 3 helps narrow it down.
#3. They get 6 satellite bases *per turn* to expand their network, and start with 3 positions pretty much anywhere they want on the map, so why would they ever need to move 6?
However, I'm not ruling out a 4 movement (and wasn't aware there was a 4 hex speed mentioned anywhere), I just think it allows the Andro RTN to be considerably harder to take out. Playtesting would fix this, and I haven't done any of that
I had to ignore the whole reconfiguring mothership hangers for different sized ships. That way lies madness.
Not really, just treat the mothership/sats as a group in which each sat can only be 'replaced' with the same size sat... can be reconfigured when 'refitted'
[think I remembetr that the Andys started with only {S} sats then upgraded to {M}]
There is no need to reconfigure hangars for the Andromedans in FC; so a precedent exists in the broader SFU for ignoring that factor and just relying on the amount of space in the hangar itself.
And how do you track what kind/size of ships a specific mothership can hold Stewart? Little hanger configuration counters? New mothership counters for each retrofit? Or paper??? Ugh, all of those increase the counters by *hundreds*, if not up to a thousand or more. Any Andro War supplement probably already needs 2000 counters, which I think may be too much.
One other thing that should be worth remembering in terms of economics is that, regardless of the overall economic output the Andros were able to strip out of the LMC during the height of the occupation, the portion being allocated to their war effort in the Alpha Octant is still only part of the overall expenditure the invaders would be planning to make.
Even leaving aside the costs needed to garrison the Cloud (and to try and keep watch for the remaining Magellanic exile cells), the Andros were investing a significant portion of their resources in their Omega Octant campaign; be it in establishing the RTN throughout the octant, establishing their beach-heads in the Ryn Nebula and the Iridani New Kingdom, or in launching a full-scale assault on the Octant at large by Y192.
Plus, it's not clear whether or not the Andros made any serious plays against the three other inhabited regions of the Milky Way (Sigma, Sargasso, or the Xorkaelian Empire), or if they struck out at any of the other satellite galaxies (such as the Greater Magellanic Cloud); or even if the LMC was their only waypoint in their campaign against the Milky Way. (For all we know, even if there was a theatre opened up against, say, Sigma, it could have been launched from some other satellite galaxy with its own route back to Andromeda, with no cross-connection to or from the LMC at all.)
Without knowing the full scope of the Andromedans' operations out of the LMC, there may be a grey area between the amount they historically spent in the Alpha Octant invasion, and how much they had to go around in pursuit of their wider war efforts.
Excellent points Gary, too bad I have zero data on any of it.
What I do know is we have an arrival sequence for the Alpha Quadrant. We could easily assume it was identical for the Omega. So, any money the Andro's make in the LMC are split in 50%, as half goes to the Omega, half to the Alpha. Now, if in some wonderful future where we get an Omega F&E, and could merge Alpha+Omega+LMC, it would be great, and easily accomplished.
But to bring in the other quadrants of the galaxy, oh gosh. I really hope A+O were hit as they were the closest to the Andromedan Galaxy/LMC. The other quadrants were "planned invasions once a foothold was established".
By that logic, and the fact I can't find any contradictions to it, I think the LMC supported 6 routes to the Milky way, 3 in the Alpha, and 3 in the Omega. The Omega was more easily taken out and probably had a significant Andro presence when the last desecrator fell and reinforcements stopped arriving. It may take them a lot longer to kill out those andros. Too bad our timeline stops about Y205, I'm really curious what happens next (X2?). Can't wait for future F&E& stuff.
I think the Andro's still had plenty in the LMC to garrison it. They pretty much killed everybody, except some Jumokian raiders once they took over the Core in 184 or so.
In my system, the LMC still has 17 fully loaded intruders, 8-10 more plus the 3 infestors moving supplies around, and the 2 DOMs that were the first 2 to arrive at the LMC that were used to open the way into the core. So, 25 or so intruders, vs maybe 3 week expeditionary fleets and some pirates. No problem. Plus, they have like 20 battle stations around the core still, and their RTN, and the fully functional desecrator, and the crippled one the Andros finally fixed in Y200 to build the Desecrator.
If you happen to have a copy of Captain's Log #35 lying around (or are planning on getting one), there's a one-page article in it called A Bridge Between Galaxies; which looks into the issue of what may (or may not) have been involved regarding the Andromedans' plans against the Milky Way Galaxy and its myriad of satellites.
For example, it's noted that, as shown on these three images, both Magellanic Clouds are actually further away from M31 than the Milky Way is; a line drawn between Andromeda and the LMC would more or less pass underneath our galaxy. (From what I can tell, it looks like the closest approach to the Milky Way from the Cloud would, in Star Fleet Universe terms, land you somewhere in the Sigma Octant; but the relative distinces needed to get to one part of the Milky Way or another probably aren't that big a deal for the Andros once they are in a position to start drawing up their regional RTN links.)
That said, if there is ever a need to "off-load" any would-be Andro operations against Sigma, Sargasso, or the Xorkaelians to another beach-head satellite galaxy, there are plenty of other potential candidates out there. (Sag DEG might be a good choice for the "far side" regions, if the vagaries of the RTN allow; it's nestled right underneath the Xorkaelian Empire, which may or may not work out well for the Andromedans in that instance...)
Oh, just to clarify, the SFU generally refers to "octants", as opposed to "quadrants"; since most of the habitable regions of the galaxy are bunched in groups of three sectors (out of 24 total). Although, if you included the Delta sector with the Alpha bunch, you'd technically have an "Alpha Sextant"; while the six sectors under the writ of the Xorkaelian Empire would pretty much count as a quadrant of the Milky Way in and of itself.
Went home and had a read in CL35, dang there are a lot of good articles in those that I've never read. I go straight for the ships, like so many of us.
Anyway, yeah, it raises more questions than it answers. It does explicitly state that the the Alpha/Omega octants were attacked from the LMC, nothing else. As I am not expecting to ever see Omega F&E, I think just sending half the income from the LMC, and assuming the ships we have data for is just half, it'll all work itself out ok.
These are subject to change, and are done in excel so a bit ugly, but they update automatically and are easier to read. But anyway, here is a link to my Andro counters: http://cooltexan.com/andros.png
Eric, yes it's a bit more labor-wise (using sat counters) but it has the advantage of running the Andy out of sats when restocking as they DO have to be built & transported, SVC's factor method means they never run out (when in supply) and (almost) always have the special ability (scout/G/mauler) when needed (IIRC)...
It's a realism vs playability issue...
Based on my data, the Andros will, at most, have right about 2500 hulls. About 525 of those are satellite bases which would almost exclusively be hidden, and just on a paper map, so only a dozen or so counters would be needed. There are then about 343 motherships, and quite a few possible variants. This could probably be nearly 500 counters. And finally there are about 1600 satellite ships, with lots of variants, meaning you probably need at *least* 2000 counters for that. 2500 counters, woah, thats a lot for this game (granted, I think we all have 10x that, but that is *10* countersheets. It may be doable, but I get the vibe that it'd make the product too expensive for folks to purchase, and thus not worth the time for ADB at least to print.... granted, nothing I'm doing ADB endorses, just saying thats a lot of counters to keep track of
I think your desire to have, say, a DOM with 4 heavies, 6 mediums, and all sorts of other combinations, could only be done with yet another group of counters. These would be for each mothership (even those with 1 hanger) that would display their configuration.
So, on the top of the counter, it'd say something like "6" for a 6 slot hanger, or "3/12" for a 6 slot hanger and 12 slot MWP hanger (as they are different).
On the next line, you'd have the # of MWPs that are carried.
On the bottom it'd have 1, 2, or 3 numbers. If 1 number its the # of MSS carried, if 2 numbers its large/medium, and if 3 its large/medium/small.
There would be a LOT of number combinations. For a 6 counter it'd be anywhere from 4/0/0, to 0/0/8, PLUS it can also have various MWP configurations.
So essentially, it is a HUGE number of counters (500-1000), 1 has to be stacked with every mothership in addition to what they carry, and IMO it is just a lot more counters and work for a configuration that is probably done quite fast and easily, and like refits and fighter upgrades, can be subsumed into the system without more rules/counters.
Chances are the only time you'll change counters is at a base or RTN anyway, so you can assume when you go from 4 Mambas to 6 Cobras, your hanger gets refitted at that time.
And it won't be that hard to run the Andro's out of satellite ships if you don't use some of those SATB modules to be a construction module instead, letting you build additional SS's. I think around 27/turn max arrive and the Desecrator by itself produces 14 each turn (plus 6 satb, 3 EM, 1-2 PSS, and plenty of cargo pods)
I thought it has pretty much decided that the satellite ships will be treated like fighter factors with a few exceptions.
There was a map with the economics and factors and construction rates for the magellanics including conversions but no orders of battle or deployment patterns.
Duplicate post
If the Andro stayed with 'standard' configurations, then it's not as much of a problem, after all the INT would be either {4S}, {3M}, or {2L} for its hanger, it's the hybriding ability that balloons the counter count somewhat [INT with {L/S/S}], DOMs (ships with large [4+]hangers) can really be hybrided...
And don't forget he mobile weapons platform PF thingies
So I created a mirror of the official SITs with all the races from the LMC (minus the Chomak, which I don't have enough info for yet). I'll have an updated map soon too.
Anybody know the policy on posting SITs, that aren't a copy or version of existing ones, but are an officially supported race?
Oh, and I've done up some graphics for the ships too, well most of them. So I'll have a PNG I can post with actually Baduvai/Eneen/Maghadim/Uthiki and Jumokian counters. Oh, and I have the same thing for the Andromedans (SIT and Counters).
Here is a horribly looking snippet:
http://www.cooltexan.com/c5.png
It might be worth discussing the LMC counters over here; but anyway.
Could it be possible to have the colours of the counters match those in Module C5? (The non-Alpha counters each have an additional symbol behind the silhouette of each ship; the LMC use a hexagon, Omega a circle, and Triangulum a triangle.)
Not sure I'd be entirely in agreement with some of those counter factors either, but I guess it's still too early for those to be set in stone in any event.
Better not to post homegrown SITs as people might consider them official when they're not.
Another note for future consideration:
According to the R-section listings for the various K5W variants (R4.A22) - (R4.A26) in Captain's Log #40, a batch of Klingon F5Ws (no exact number given, but likely fewer than ten) were part of "a few squadrons of Klingon ships" that were jointly paid for by the Federation and Klingons and shipped to the Romulans from Y192 with tacit Gorn and Tholian approval.
As of this writing, it's not known what other classes of ship were involved, or how many of each class were sent. But when the time comes to work out the historical invasion scenario, a provision may be worth making for this shipment (akin to the Treaty of Smarba provisions being worked into the ongoing revision of the Four Powers War scenario).
On that note, I was wondering: if any of the Klingons' RKLs were still available by this point in time, would it make sense for the Empire to add those hulls to the deliveries (so that the Romulans could convert them back into "regular" SparrowHawk mission variants)? Unless the Klingons had any particularly compelling reason to hold on to them, perhaps the ships might as well be handed back to their original owners, not least if this allowed the Empire to count them against the number of newly-built cruisers they would have otherwise sent over.