With the Romulan fighters are you including the sub-light fighters as the introduction date?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 12:20 pm: Edit

Is the Lyran JGP-V a true carrier ship? What is its YIS?

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 12:43 pm: Edit

Since the JGP operates (mostly) under HDW rules, the -V vrsion should be a true carrier.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 01:18 pm: Edit

This is main-line F&E project so no Earlier Years or sub-light fighters.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 07:52 pm: Edit

Chuck, what about the Seltorians?

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 07:57 pm: Edit

RBE, the Lyran CLV was a one off (as a competitor to the DDV) built in Y169.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 08:42 pm: Edit

I don't recall asking a question that has your response as a possible answer Stewart.

In any case, there seem to be at least three possible candidates that predate the listed Lyran CVL as their first true carrier.

These are the DDV, CLV and JGP-V.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Units appearing in Captain's Log and not on the 2012 SITs not included in the information provided above. I assumed these units to be playtest and as such unavailable for use at this time.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 09:01 pm: Edit

That still leaves the JGP-V, and if the CLV _does_ get added, it's going to be something that has an effect on earliest carrier stuff, imo. So probably needs consideration.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 03:29 am: Edit

Let's do the Selts, LDR, and Vudar while we are doing this as we will need the data for Minor Empires.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 03:34 am: Edit

What are the SIT, CL SIT, MSC, and G3 dates for the DDV, CLV and JGP-V?

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 06:36 am: Edit

I will post the Selts and Vudar sometime tomorrow when I'm off and have time to complete the data.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 12:49 pm: Edit

Here is another research project...

I'd like an accounting (chart) of SFG modules and the units and dates they were built. We know that one SFG module is produced per year. Please check the R-sections and other source documents (such as Klingon ship histories). Also note that one SB in WoF mounted two SFGs.

Who's up for this?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 12:52 pm: Edit

I'll try to give this a shot.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 02:23 pm: Edit

Lyran

Ship	SIT	CL-SIT	MSC	G3
DDV	Not Listed	Y120*/Y169	Y120*/Y169	Not Listed
CLV	Not Listed	Y169	Y169	Not Listed
JGP-V	Y168	Not Listed	Not Listed	Not Listed

* Y120 is the intro date for the Lyran DD. I believe this is a typo from when the line was copied. Carrier chart starts in Y169.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 07:58 pm: Edit

A quick count shows that there should be 18 SFG modules to account for with a D7A (Y165), D5A (Y172), C9A (Y175-one), C5A (Y176-one), D7AX (Y183-one?), C7A (Y184-one) for ships plus the 2 on the SBA, possibly two reserved for the first B10. Leaves 8(-10) for other D7/D5 hulls.

C10A never built, D5WA converted from D5As (none noted as new construction)...

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 10:38 pm: Edit

Stew, what about the B10S?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 11:32 pm: Edit

G16.0 (Electronic Master Rulebook) states that the SFG was invented in Y165. Advanced Missions in the R section for the D7A states that the first ship was Spellbinder, converted in Y165. However, the F&E SIT shows the first SFG unit as Y168 (D7A). The Klingons do start with one D7A in the Home Fleet at the beginning of the general war (Klingon OOB).

Y165 D7A (Advanced Missions) Spellbinder.
Y166
Y167
Y168 D7A (SIT lists this as the YIS).
Y169 SBA (SIT)
Y171 D5A (SIT)
Y172
Y173
Y174
Y175 C9A (SIT)
Y176 C5A (SIT)
Y177
Y178
Y179
Y180
Y181
Y182
Y183
Y184 C7A (SIT)
Y184 B10 Inviolable participated in battle, so heavily damaged that construction was never completed.
Y188 B10 Invulnerable (boom section) destroyed by Andromedans. No data if this is the actual year the boom section was made operational.
Y189 B10V Insatiable (Advanced Missions R3.17)
Y195 B10 Invincible (Advanced Missions R3.17)

I do not known if Klingon Battleships actually did receive SFGs when constructed, or if it was later. Advanced missions states that Invincible and Insatiable actually carried them during the Andromedan War. It is verified (SLx.x) that Invincible was carrying them in Yxxx.
All units listed with SIT next to them are not guaranteed to have actually been built at that date (except the D7A) unless otherwise noted.

What I came up with today, have a lot more stuff to go through.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 11:56 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

(312.11) SHIPS: One SFG is completed in the Spring turn of each year starting in Y169. (The one D7A "at start" was the prototype.)…

---

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, April 09, 2014 - 12:38 am: Edit

Excellent. Thank you for the clarification.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, April 09, 2014 - 12:42 am: Edit

I incorrectly listed the Insatiable as a B10V, it is a B10S in that year.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, April 09, 2014 - 09:23 am: Edit

Empire	Seltorian	Vudar
Fighter Intro Date	Y182	Y175/Y178+
Fighter Module Dates (SIT/MSC)	Y182	Y175/Y175
SAV Dates (SIT/MSC)	No Data#	Y175/Y175+
LAV Dates (SIT/MSC)	No Data#	Y175/Y175+
1st True Carrier Ship	CVS/CVS	CVS/CVS
Carrier Dates (SIT/MSC)	Y184/Y184	Y175/Y175
Hvy Ftr Intro Dates (SIT/MSC)	Y184	Y183/Y183
Hvy Ftr Module Dates (SIT/MSC)	Y184	Y183/Y183
SAH Dates (SIT/MSC)	No Data#	No Data#
LAH Dates (SIT/MSC)	No Data#	No Data#
1st HF Carrier Ship	No Data#/CSV++	No Data
HF Carrier Ship Dates (SIT/MSC)	Y184++	No Data

# No Entry in SIT for these units.
+ Used Klingon fighters in Y175 before deveoloping their own fighters in Y178
++ Used Klingon Heavy Fighters.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Wednesday, April 09, 2014 - 11:18 pm: Edit

Scenarios with B10s

SL98 Y195 B10K Invincible - 2 SFGs (CL #6)
SH93 Y188 Bm-B10 Invulnerable - no SFG mention (R5)
SH91 Y184 B10K Inviolable - may have SFGs (R5)
SH94 Y197 B10K Invinceible / B10S Insatiable - 4 SFGs (all available refits) (R5)

SH85 Y179 B10K xx - not historical

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, April 09, 2014 - 11:56 pm: Edit

SH91 does in fact state that Inviolable did not have SFGs installed.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, May 01, 2014 - 05:20 am: Edit

Research Teams:

I need someone to conduct this mock F&E battle simulation based upon SL85 from CL4 in Y177:

Mission: Destroy the BTS

Tholian BTS(6), CVA, DDE, PCE, AWT, plus any nine other PCs or non-carrier variants

Klingon LTT+ CVA Pod, D5, F5V+E4A, F5, 3xE4, Swarm (100), Command Point

Assume approach battles were offered and accepted in one case and refused in another.

Please report results in this topic.